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  1. #141
    in-game Gamine's Avatar
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    CUDDLES!

    A nice dose of Ne when they want to be playful!

    Verbal banter!

    They like adventures!

    Maybe not someone I'd be around all the time, because sometimes they are fun suckers, the rest of the time I lurve them.
    "Beware Those Who Are ALWAYS READING BOOKS" - Bukowski

  2. #142
    Not Your Therapist Sinmara's Avatar
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    I'm reading this entire thread and just sort of holding my head and groaning at the way this is all making me think of my mother and sister. The observations of everyone are spot-on.

    I have a difficult relationship with my mother. She's dogmatic in her approach and her views are rigid. She's judgemental, closed to new information, and refuses to admit that she might be wrong about anything. To her, all people with facial piercings are Bad People and they're all oversexed drug-users. The absolutes she assigns are crushing.

    I can tell her something 'til I'm blue in the face and she'll ignore me and brush it off as though my words were like a wave breaking against the rocks, but the moment she hears it from a "specialist" she's all excited about this new idea she discovered -- when I had been telling her this thing for YEARS. I get so angry when this happens and I'll point out that "Uh, you know, I've been telling you this," but she'll just roll her eyes and belittle my statement somehow. My insights are often spot-on but she completely invalidates any knowledge I have because I'm the child and I can't possibly know anything.

    She's kept me reduced to the level of a spoilt teenager in her eyes. If I display any feelings or express that I'm upset at something she's done, she'll call me a drama queen and dismiss everything I have to say. The more upset I get over the fact that she is not listening to me, the more she takes this as proof that I'm a drama queen. The fact that I am not as successful as she THINKS I should be at 26 does not mean that I am immature or that I need coddling, but if I ask for help she views it as proof that I can't do anything on my own. Her verbal pats on the head are intensely insulting.

    I was always an extension of her. She would be very sensitive and ashamed if I did anything outside of the norm, or outside of her own "proven methods," because I was a direct reflection upon her and my family, as though we were the damn Borg. She was always more concerned with perception than content. She'd rather pretty up the front yard than clean the house interior because people see her yard everytime they drive by. We'd be living in such clutter that we were constantly having to step over things but damnit, that front yard looked nice.

    She plays up her prestige and connections to where she's on the verge of lying. She wants everything that has to do with her to be "more". Smarter kids, more successful husband, better house, better everything, whether her stuff is actually better or not. I tested with a high IQ as a child and rather than just be happy that she had a smart daughter and give me extra support in school, she pulled me out and enrolled me in college when I was 11. If my 13 year old sister could do it then obviously I could too because we were both her daughters. Then, she went around boasting to everyone that her 11 year old was in college and it made her feel so good that everyone was so impressed. When I couldn't do the work, not because I couldn't but because I was an 11 year old in college and the stress was making me break down and become dysfunctional, she did my homework for me to make sure I passed my classes so she could enroll me in another semester, and all the while she kept talking about what an impressive daughter she had. She even made me run for Student Body Secretary because there was no one else running and I would have won regardless of my ability to to the job, again because she enjoyed that she got to tell people that not only was her daughter in college, she was on the student body too! At 12 years old! She just had to keep up the lie because my failure would have been a blow to her pride because she would have had to tell people that no, I wasn't a genius, I was just another confused and fucked up teenager in high school. When I finally put my foot down and demanded that they enroll me in NORMAL high school for NORMAL kids, it was like I stomped all over her ego.

    I've noticed this behavior in all of the ESTJ women I've known. They have an over-blown and often false self-perception and will play up their market value as though they're something big and impressive when they're really no more impressive than average. I know a woman who calls herself an artist and sells her knitting wares at absolutely ridiculous prices when in fact her artwork looks like badly drawn anime fanart and I always spot dropped stitches and pattern mistakes in her knitting that a person with only moderate skill would make. But if you trust what she says about her stuff, she is the best thing since ever.

    I worked for an ESTJ for about a year. Everyone absolutely hated him and he made everyone's job miserable for all of the reasons people have already stated. My god, how I hated that man and what he put me through.

    To the ESTJs getting upset by all the negative feedback -- instead of calling us mean and telling us that we should be nice because our perceptions of ESTJs are obviously wrong, maybe you should wonder why SO MANY PEOPLE have this exact same opinion. So many people have such bad experiences with ESTJs because SO MANY ESTJs are like this. If you read through all of this and you don't believe you display any of these characteristics, you're either not seeing yourself OR you are the exception to the rule when it comes to your type.

  3. #143
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JediM05 View Post
    I get the impression from some forums that people often have the wrong idea of what type of person an ESTJ is. What are y'alls views?
    The other 15 types exist only because of the ESTJ.

  4. #144
    Senior Member sticker's Avatar
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    I was wondering if it's a possibility that it's easier for people to form more bad impressions of SJs since they are so common compared to Ns.

    (Although I do have to agree that even I have friction with my SJ parents.)
    Everyone is unique. ...Just like everyone else.
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  5. #145
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    It is SO WEIRD seeing this thread revived; my first post EVER on TypeC was a rant a couple of pages ago. And that was last year! Sweet Jesus, how little has changed...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pettycure View Post
    To the ESTJs getting upset by all the negative feedback -- instead of calling us mean and telling us that we should be nice because our perceptions of ESTJs are obviously wrong, maybe you should wonder why SO MANY PEOPLE have this exact same opinion. So many people have such bad experiences with ESTJs because SO MANY ESTJs are like this. If you read through all of this and you don't believe you display any of these characteristics, you're either not seeing yourself OR you are the exception to the rule when it comes to your type.
    ... hmm. Maybe you should take a moment to watch my video. And no, I'm not an exception. And most importantly, THERE IS NO RULE. It's inaccurate to say that "All ESTJs are like ___", because it's simply not true. MBTI is not that clear-cut.

    Quote Originally Posted by FeatheredFrenzy View Post
    Some qualities ESTJs don't get enough credit for:

    -Boisterous and fun-loving

    -Friendly and caring
    YES! Absolutely
    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    The other 15 types exist only because of the ESTJ.
    LOL Yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by sticker View Post
    I was wondering if it's a possibility that it's easier for people to form more bad impressions of SJs since they are so common compared to Ns.

    (Although I do have to agree that even I have friction with my SJ parents.)
    I think it might also have to do with the fact that sometimes, Ns (and SPs) resent/strongly dislike those in power. And ESTJs tend to hold positions of power, and/or make the rules in some context.

    But in their defense, people who are super-traditional can be really annoying. And older folks are more likely to be like that. Therefore, older ESTJs, including parents, are probably a lot worse than younger ESTJs (like me ). Although I have my moments of super-angry traditionalism; for example, I want to find every copy of the Amazon Kindle and DESTROY THEM FOREVER.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



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  6. #146
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    EJCC, after watching your video I wanted to cuddle glomp you and not in a creepy way.

    I also found that I can't trust myself picking them out so I figure I'd just need to get to know a few to really know.
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

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    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

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  7. #147
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pettycure View Post
    To her, all people with facial piercings are Bad People and they're all oversexed drug-users. The absolutes she assigns are crushing.
    My brother does that but he's not ESTJ.

    I can tell her something 'til I'm blue in the face and she'll ignore me and brush it off as though my words were like a wave breaking against the rocks, but the moment she hears it from a "specialist" she's all excited about this new idea she discovered -- when I had been telling her this thing for YEARS.
    My brother does that but he's not ESTJ.

    I worked for an ESTJ for about a year. Everyone absolutely hated him and he made everyone's job miserable for all of the reasons people have already stated. My god, how I hated that man and what he put me through.
    So, what's next-- all black people eat Kentucky Fried Chicken?

    To the ESTJs getting upset by all the negative feedback -- instead of calling us mean and telling us that we should be nice because our perceptions of ESTJs are obviously wrong, maybe you should wonder why SO MANY PEOPLE have this exact same opinion.
    What you did in your rant against ESTJ's, is exactly what you take issue with in your Mother's behavior.

    Your Mother thinks, "all people with facial piercings are bad people."
    You think all ESTJ's are bad people.

    Your rant is brimming with hypocrisy.
    It's unfortunate you can't see it.

  8. #148
    Not Your Therapist Sinmara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Your Mother thinks, "all people with facial piercings are bad people."
    You think all ESTJ's are bad people.

    Your rant is brimming with hypocrisy.
    It's unfortunate you can't see it.
    I had originally talked about the other ESTJs I know and went into their personalities, but the post became way too long so I trimmed it down because I felt it was redundant to repeat observations already made by several other people.

    Plucking out a few lines from what I wrote and saying my opinions and observations about a certain type are incorrect because you know one person of another type who shares one or two personality traits means nothing. Each type will always share a small number of personality traits with each other but that doesn't make them any less of what they are. I'm sure if I talked to some INFJs on the forum we'd easily find a few personality traits we shared, but that doesn't make me any less of an ESTP.

    I haven't met every single ESTJ out there so I can't say they're all bad people (in fact, I didn't say they're all bad people, you're the one who assigned that absolute). I just have yet to come across one in my life who is not a complete asshole. It would be nice for me to meet an ESTJ who is not domineering and controlling and convinced of their correctness to the point of blind arrogance, but it simply has not happened yet. When it does, I'll have to rework my opinion on the matter. The difference between myself and my mother, since you compared us, is that she will not even admit that she MIGHT be wrong.

    My point was that if there is an overwhelming number of people who are all claiming they have the same issues, the argument of "I'm right and all of you are wrong" gets weaker and weaker. It's stupid to cover your ears and insist that it's a sunny day when everyone's telling you it's raining.

  9. #149
    Senior Member TopherRed's Avatar
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    True, my love, but there is such a thing as a healthy ESTJ who can admit that there might be the slightest possibility that they're wrong. I've seen it happen. Though I don't think it will ever happen again...once-in-a-lifetime sort of deal.
    Love is the point.

  10. #150
    Not Your Therapist Sinmara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzcrossed View Post
    True, my love, but there is such a thing as a healthy ESTJ who can admit that there might be the slightest possibility that they're wrong. I've seen it happen. Though I don't think it will ever happen again...once-in-a-lifetime sort of deal.
    lol, damnit and I missed it...next time get it on tape so you can show me. ;D

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