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Thread: ISTJ OR INTJ

  1. #11
    Obsession. Lethe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uytuun View Post
    There's a difference between testing and knowing. I test as an INTP all the time (literally all the time) and I *know* I'm not, I'm an INTJ.
    Right.

    As an iNtuitive dominant, I knew very early on that my perception is innately strange before I even had the ability to articulate them. I either live in a different world, or on a different time-line (re: The Future - 10 Years Later), but this habit did not prevent me from testing as an ISTJ whenever I needed to come back down from the clouds. My true self is different compared to the type I aspire to be.

    =========================

    Quote Originally Posted by FallaciaSonata View Post
    Instead of going by scores, like that, take a cognitive functions test. Find out which of the eight functions you prefer....

    For me, I thought I was using Ni.....until I realized all I'm doing is "Si + Ne". I spoke briefly with BlackCat about it....the post should be on my profile's comment page, if you're interested.

    I would recommend doing that, though, for sure. Look at your functions. Are you Ni, Te, Fi, Se, or are you Si, Te, Fi, Ne?
    Quote Originally Posted by poppy View Post
    INTJs and ISTJs can appear similar, but there's a huge difference between being dominant introverted sensation and dominant introverted intuition. Huge. The stuff your coworkers said about you really only verifies the IXTJ part (introversion, use of Te)

    From the Lenore Thomson wiki thing (edit Introverted Sensation):

    Si:
    "When we use Introverted Sensation, we don't adjust to our surface perceptions. We package them and take them with us--in the form of facts, numbers, signs, and memories."
    "When we use Introverted Sensation, we stabilize our immediate sense impressions by integrating them with the ones we remember and care about. We "find ourselves" in whatever is happening, because our perceptions are anchored by what we already know."

    Ni:
    "Introverted Intuition would prompt us to liberate our sense impressions from their larger context, thereby creating new options for perception itself."
    "Introverted Intuition suggests that absolute meaning is an illusion--the result of having incomplete information."
    "Where Extraverted Intuitives see many behavioral options, INJs acknowledge many conceptual standpoints. They experience no need to declare one inherently better than another. Indeed, these types have the disconcerting habit of solving a problem by shifting their perspective and defining the situation some other way."
    "I cannot expect even my own art to provide all of the answers -- only to hope it keeps asking the right questions." -- Grace Hartigan

    Enneagram: Tritype - 1w9, 5 (balanced wings), 2w3; Overall Variant: So/Sx
    SLOAN: rCoa|I|
    Functional Preferences: Ni, Te/Fi, Ti, Se, Fe, Si, Ne


    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    Looking into the eyes of a [Ni user] is like peeking through a portal into a parallel universe.

  2. #12
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    If the descriptions both are relevant to you, then just look at Si vs. Ni. That's the easiest determining factor to tell you whether you're ISTJ (Dominant Si) or INTJ (Dominant Ni).

    I know for myself, with Si being my highest function, I use my memory for retaining useful facts and memories for later purposes. Not exactly sure how Ni works, but it's the ISTJ's demon function (8th).

  3. #13
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    Si:
    "When we use Introverted Sensation, we don't adjust to our surface perceptions. We package them and take them with us--in the form of facts, numbers, signs, and memories."
    "When we use Introverted Sensation, we stabilize our immediate sense impressions by integrating them with the ones we remember and care about. We "find ourselves" in whatever is happening, because our perceptions are anchored by what we already know."

    Ni:
    "Introverted Intuition would prompt us to liberate our sense impressions from their larger context, thereby creating new options for perception itself."
    "Introverted Intuition suggests that absolute meaning is an illusion--the result of having incomplete information."
    "Where Extraverted Intuitives see many behavioral options, INJs acknowledge many conceptual standpoints. They experience no need to declare one inherently better than another. Indeed, these types have the disconcerting habit of solving a problem by shifting their perspective and defining the situation some other way."


    When I look at these two, it true for me that I tend to memorize facts and data, trust theories and like to fall back on earlier experiences.
    But on the other hand I try to look at things from different angles, see the bigger picture. Maybe it is because the work I do (consulting) that I have further invested in the intuitive side. The descriptions of INTJ & ISTJ are both very catchy for me.

    E.G. from INTJ examples, this is totally me:
    - NTJs are often inwardly focused on their thoughts of the way the world is or ought to be; they enjoy day dreaming.
    - Often at an early age, INTJs make a commitment to furthering their education. The life of the mind is very important to them. Examples abound of INTJs from economically or intellectually impoverished circumstances setting goals for themselves to continue in education, often earning the highest degree possible.
    - By nature, INTJs are independent individualists. They see their visions so clearly that they are often surprised when others do not see things the same way. INTJs are strong at critiquing and as a result tend to notice the negatives. To them, a job well done should be reward enough in itself. They may neglect to comment favorably on others' contributions.
    - The INTJ's interest in dealing with the world is to make decisions, express judgments, and put everything that they encounter into an understandable and rational system. Consequently, they are quick to express judgments
    - Whatever system an INTJ happens to be working on is for them the equivalent of a moral cause to an INFJ; both perfectionism and disregard for authority may come into play, as INTJs can be unsparing of both themselves and the others on the project. Anyone considered to be "slacking," including superiors, will lose their respect -- and will generally be made aware of this;

  4. #14
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzy View Post
    When I look at these two, it true for me that I tend to memorize facts and data, trust theories and like to fall back on earlier experiences.
    But on the other hand I try to look at things from different angles, see the bigger picture. Maybe it is because the work I do (consulting) that I have further invested in the intuitive side. The descriptions of INTJ & ISTJ are both very catchy for me.

    E.G. from INTJ examples, this is totally me:
    - NTJs are often inwardly focused on their thoughts of the way the world is or ought to be; they enjoy day dreaming.
    - Often at an early age, INTJs make a commitment to furthering their education. The life of the mind is very important to them. Examples abound of INTJs from economically or intellectually impoverished circumstances setting goals for themselves to continue in education, often earning the highest degree possible.
    - By nature, INTJs are independent individualists. They see their visions so clearly that they are often surprised when others do not see things the same way. INTJs are strong at critiquing and as a result tend to notice the negatives. To them, a job well done should be reward enough in itself. They may neglect to comment favorably on others' contributions.
    - The INTJ's interest in dealing with the world is to make decisions, express judgments, and put everything that they encounter into an understandable and rational system. Consequently, they are quick to express judgments
    - Whatever system an INTJ happens to be working on is for them the equivalent of a moral cause to an INFJ; both perfectionism and disregard for authority may come into play, as INTJs can be unsparing of both themselves and the others on the project. Anyone considered to be "slacking," including superiors, will lose their respect -- and will generally be made aware of this;
    When I look at those points in the INTJ description, most of it relates to me too, and I'm ISTJ. You have to look closer at Si vs. Ni to come to a final decision. That's how I would decide, if the descriptions were both similar. Which function do you use more or do you naturally relate to?

  5. #15
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    I had this same issue when I started getting into MBTI. I couldn't tell if I was an INTJ or ISTJ. I grew up working on computers, so I was surrounded by NTs everywhere. I would be surprised if my habits weren't NT-like. Part of the problem of figuring it out is easily confusing other things for being an N. Extreme introversion can be confused for being intuitive, because people equate inuitive at times with aloofness. I can easily get lost in my head, but does that necessarily mean I'm lost in abstract thought? No.

    You can easily confuse ISTJs also because of Ne. However, you have to realize that Ne is intuition focused outward and Ni is focused inward. Ni is more conceptual in nature, and it focuses on ideas and theories concerning systems of thought. Ne is intuition of the extraverted kind, which means that it's focused on external possibilities. Ni asks, "How can I make an effective hot dog and stand what will it require?" Ne asks, "What potential income does this hot dog stand have in terms of customers coming over a certain time period?"

    Being an NTJ and STJ means that your life is also structured. You plan things out. Ni makes a plan, but draws out a vague plan of what is necessary to be accomplished. Si looks at everything necessary to be accomplished, the requirements of each one, and how to plan it out sequentially. For example, an NTJ will say, "I need to go pay the phone bill, go to the gym and buy a present for a friend tomorrow." An STJ will say, "I'll go to the gym in the morning. I can pay the phone bill before have lunch at 12 PM, then after that, I can go shopping in the afternoon."

    Like I said, Ni draws out bigger plans. Si wants exactitude. That's why their plans are more specific. There's more to elaborate on but my eyes are closing. I'll post more tomorrow. It's really about telling the difference between how abstract vs. concrete you are.


  6. #16
    Junior Member Exodus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SubjectA View Post
    Not entirely true. I know a lot of INTJ's that have tested as other things, including myself. I sometimes test as an INTP and even once in a while an ENTJ.

    However, INTJ's tend to do a lot introspection. Sometimes I think the more they look into the INTJ personality profile, the more they somehow modify their own personality to fit it better. But that's another topic...




    In regards to the OP, it is actually possible to have an N and S pretty even. Mine are. I guess you'll have to look up what it means to be intuitive and what it means to be sensing. If you prefer thinking and talking about more abstract things, like philosophy, and if you're usually inside your mind than in reality, chances are you're an INTJ.
    What a lot of people that are new to MBTI fail to understand is that, the letters are not interchangable. For example, a ISTJ and a INTJ is not similar at all, however, one may think so because it has only 1 letter difference. There is a massive difference between a NT and a SJ.

    I do agree with the previous poster who said that if you were a INTJ you would know it, because your intuition would be so strong, you would immediately make the logical connection once you read the description. A SJ would do exactly what you did, and read the traits and try to see how many match up (linear thinking).

    Do you often think abstractly? Do random ideas come and go, and you pick some randomly out of the air and run with those ideas? Are your thoughts sequential, for example do you enjoy checklists (or lists in general).

    When problem solving, do you start at the beginning and work your way towards the conclusion(Construction)? Or do you start at the end, and work your way backwards towards the begining?(Decontruction)

    Are you driven to answer questions that know one asks? What if? and Why?

    Do you believe that certain rules exist for a reason, and tradition is important?

    If someone who knew something extremely well, was an expert, told you something, would you accept that knowledge? Would you attempt to pick that experts brain, and even possibly doubt him?

    You sound like an SJ to me.

    Do you see the forest or the trees?

    I also want to add that an INTJ specifically does not exude any SJ traits, we are in fact extremely open minded, despite the fact that we are a J type.

    We are just extremely sure of our knowledge, so when we make a statement, it sounds like a declaration. We are also driven to make conclusions, we need our ideas to have follow through and mean something. So we may make statements that sound solid and permanent, but in our heads they are always open to refinement.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Two Point Two's Avatar
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    I don't know why so many people say 'if you were an INTJ, you'd know it immediately'. If you were strong on all four letters and your process order was just right and the description totally clicked, sure - but if someone's questioning their type, it's probably because they're a bit balanced or different from the order/description in some way/s. This doesn't mean that INTJ isn't their best fit - it just means it isn't a perfect fit.

    N and Ni don't entail a perfect mystical insight to absolute truth. If multiple profiles ring true for you, it's possible to be an INTJ and uncertain of your type. Being open to being wrong (and, indeed, being wrong), doubting previous conclusions - these are not things that INTJs are incapable of doing.

  8. #18
    Junior Member Exodus's Avatar
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    Are you sure you are an INTJ?


    I kid, I kid, Check out intjforum.com . INTJs can behave wildly different, it primarily has to do with the way we function, not our personalities.

    A "type A" INTJ will act and behave differently than a more relaxed personality. Gender plays a role. Age certainly plays a role. (Some may argue this last one.) Intelligence plays a role.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Two Point Two's Avatar
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    I am pretty sure I'm an INTJ.

    And I know INTJs can behave in very different ways - that's at least partly because people don't really divide into 16 neat, distinct categories. Hence why I think advice like 'if you were an INTJ, you'd know it immediately' is somewhat unhelpful - it's exactly the kind of thing that, coming from an INTJ, will make another INTJ doubt that they could be an INTJ, despite the fact that they might be. Particularly when, if they are an INTJ, they clearly aren't one of the ones that knew instantly that they were.

    I know this is a little late, but the best advice I can think to give the op is to look into Si and Ni, and into S and N generally. INTJ is supposed to be N-dominant and ISTJ is supposed to be S-dominant, so whichever of those seems closer to your 'core' would be your best bet.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    You can easily confuse ISTJs also because of Ne. However, you have to realize that Ne is intuition focused outward and Ni is focused inward. Ni is more conceptual in nature, and it focuses on ideas and theories concerning systems of thought. Ne is intuition of the extraverted kind, which means that it's focused on external possibilities. Ni asks, "How can I make an effective hot dog and stand what will it require?" Ne asks, "What potential income does this hot dog stand have in terms of customers coming over a certain time period?"

    Being an NTJ and STJ means that your life is also structured. You plan things out. Ni makes a plan, but draws out a vague plan of what is necessary to be accomplished. Si looks at everything necessary to be accomplished, the requirements of each one, and how to plan it out sequentially. For example, an NTJ will say, "I need to go pay the phone bill, go to the gym and buy a present for a friend tomorrow." An STJ will say, "I'll go to the gym in the morning. I can pay the phone bill before have lunch at 12 PM, then after that, I can go shopping in the afternoon."

    Like I said, Ni draws out bigger plans. Si wants exactitude. That's why their plans are more specific. There's more to elaborate on but my eyes are closing. I'll post more tomorrow. It's really about telling the difference between how abstract vs. concrete you are.
    I love this post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    Rule of thumb for an INTJ: if you don't know instantaneously that you're an INTJ and nothing else, you're not an INTJ.
    I tend to question most things, so i disagree. Though for me it really did "click" as i read the descriptions and the understood the function order.

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