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  1. #31
    Senior Member Habba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lambchop View Post
    Habba,

    I admire you. And I'm not afraid to say it.
    You are not falling behind of general expectations we've set for people in general.
    Sorry, we ISTJs just don't do compliments.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lambchop View Post
    If you aren't emotional, why would you even get married?
    I wouldn't be surprised to hear T saying "It's practical" when asked this question. One of the big differences between F and T people is their way of looking at problems.

    When Fs are facing a problem, they seek support. Not necessarily to have a direct answer, but rather to understand the situation where they are at. They'd like to make sure, that their decision is supported and accepted by other people. They'd like to know what other people would do in their situation and if their decision is just for other people. When facing a problem, Fs are primarily looking for acceptance and support.

    When Ts are facing a problem, they seek answers. They see a problem, and seek direct answer to it. They are not looking for sympathy or acceptance, but usable and valuable information to help them to make the right decision, based on facts they've gathered. So, when facing a problem, Ts are primarily looking for answers and solutions.

    That creates an interesting setup in problem solving between T and F. Reminds me of a dialog between man and his wife in this movie called "White men can't jump". I think this something like this:

    Gloria: "I'm thirsty.."
    Billy: "I'll go get you some water.."

    Gloria: "Whattefuck?! If I'm thirsty, I don't want you to bring me a glass of water, I want you to say, 'Gloria, I too know what it means to be thirsty.'"

    ...
    but now we are quite a far from the marriage point... so let's get back at it. I read a study saying that men don't marry the women they are most in love with. They choose women they love, but are not overwhelmed by... to retain control. Men are generally T-like, so one could draw a conclusion here that love isn't the number one reason why T-people get married. It's something else... maybe they are looking forward to see their needs... what kind of father/mother they would like to have for their kids... what kind of person would they like to have at home, after a long and stressful day at work... I don't know.

    But I haven't felt love strongly ever. I feel more of a fulfillment and harmony. So, as of now, should I get married, I'd be marrying for harmony and fulfillment... not for love.
    "The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine."
    -Nikola Tesla

  2. #32
    Senior Member Keps Mnemnosyne's Avatar
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    Sorry Lambchop for hijacking your thread, but this has been a rather interesting thread for me.

    To Habba what is your definition of love anyway. Could it just be fulfillment and harmony?

    I do have to disagree with your description of how F works, but that is more of a side topic.

    I definitely do have to agree with ISTJs not giving compliments as well as empathy or apologies easily especially if they think that you know how they feel already.

    My question for ISTJs I guess would be why be friends with someone who isn't ideal?
    In particular I feel like I get more benefit from being friends with my ISTJ best friend than he does from me. I asked him about it and the response was "You are the only one who will put up with my lame your face jokes". Which can't of course be the true reason. Going by Habba's list of good attributes, I am loyal, considerate and steady. However, I do judge telling him that he should apologize for something he is done (Fe user), but not judge in the fact that I know it was not done of ill will. (I believe very few things are done out of ill will from anyone.) Especially when I was roommates with him I was not always emotionally stable. (I am now) So why then is he friends with me? Is it because he thinks he has to watch out for me? Sorry if this is self-centered, I am just wondering why. Thanks in advance for reading this post and any explanation would be appreciated.
    Love wouldn't exist without loneliness to inspire it.

    Peach yogurt is made of love. And gnome kidneys. - Domino

    I can cope and will cope without polluting my lungs. - Saslou

  3. #33
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    Familiarity can be part of it. They're just used to you, and have already invested time in you, so they feel its their duty to continue the friendship. I can think of 2-3 people I know my age at work that have personalities that are just awkward to me, but there's a sense of familiarity and obligation to them because of the time invested in getting to know them, so I feel I should still give a partial amount of consideration toward them for the time spent and emotional vulnerabilities.

    One of them I rarely talk to, and I never really knew how close of a friend I was to her, but that sense of familiarity with her gives me a sense of duty toward her if she needed something. Even if she did something to annoy me or bother me, she'd still be a human being in need of help. ISTJs are weird with relationships. Si creates familiarity and Fi creates emotional attachments. The thing is also, with our relationships, we're very concrete about it. Once we've decided someone is worth our time, we'll go to the ends of the earth for them. It's Si creating that sense of duty to our emotional investments.

    Remember how I said I don't like my emotions controlling me? It's the same if someone is need of dire help. I refuse to let a personal grudge keep me from helping someone that might be suffering. Another example of this is what happened last night at work. I was straightening some things near my counter, when I heard a crash to the side of me. I looked over instantly and saw a rack on the ground...next to an 8 year old kid! I ran over to him as fast as I could, picked it up, and tried to see if he was ok. I didn't have time to think about why a child was alone or how the rack fell. All I knew was that a 5 foot metal rack just nearly hit a child, and time was running out if he was injured. He looked ok, and I thought, "If this happened, what other things might happen to this kid if he's alone? I need to find his mother."

    I started scanning the area for her, and couldn't find her. A lady walked up behind me, saw it and started saying, "I can't believe a mother would leave their child alone. That is so stupid." I didn't even respond to her, but I instantly just thought, "Disgusting. How could you even insult the mother right now?" Like I said, I didn't have time to sit and judge the situation or the mother. A child that could potentially be hurt was my first and utmost priority. I found the mother a few minutes later, and just let her know that he knocked over a rack and almost got hurt. I didn't know exactly why I was telling her. I didn't want to sound angry to her. I was more concerned about the child being in danger if he was able to knock over one of the racks.


  4. #34
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    My father is ISTJ...I actually think that they are in the moment more emotional/friendly than how they rationalize to be when thinking about it (it's meant as something positive)
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  5. #35
    Senior Member Lambchop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Habba View Post
    You are not falling behind of general expectations we've set for people in general.
    Sorry, we ISTJs just don't do compliments.




    I wouldn't be surprised to hear T saying "It's practical" when asked this question. One of the big differences between F and T people is their way of looking at problems.

    When Fs are facing a problem, they seek support. Not necessarily to have a direct answer, but rather to understand the situation where they are at. They'd like to make sure, that their decision is supported and accepted by other people. They'd like to know what other people would do in their situation and if their decision is just for other people. When facing a problem, Fs are primarily looking for acceptance and support.

    When Ts are facing a problem, they seek answers. They see a problem, and seek direct answer to it. They are not looking for sympathy or acceptance, but usable and valuable information to help them to make the right decision, based on facts they've gathered. So, when facing a problem, Ts are primarily looking for answers and solutions.

    That creates an interesting setup in problem solving between T and F. Reminds me of a dialog between man and his wife in this movie called "White men can't jump". I think this something like this:

    Gloria: "I'm thirsty.."
    Billy: "I'll go get you some water.."

    Gloria: "Whattefuck?! If I'm thirsty, I don't want you to bring me a glass of water, I want you to say, 'Gloria, I too know what it means to be thirsty.'"

    ...
    but now we are quite a far from the marriage point... so let's get back at it. I read a study saying that men don't marry the women they are most in love with. They choose women they love, but are not overwhelmed by... to retain control. Men are generally T-like, so one could draw a conclusion here that love isn't the number one reason why T-people get married. It's something else... maybe they are looking forward to see their needs... what kind of father/mother they would like to have for their kids... what kind of person would they like to have at home, after a long and stressful day at work... I don't know.

    But I haven't felt love strongly ever. I feel more of a fulfillment and harmony. So, as of now, should I get married, I'd be marrying for harmony and fulfillment... not for love.
    This is very interesting and I found myself rolling this around in my head all day. This is becoming less and less about my boss and more about being fascinated with understanding ISTJ personalities and T's in general.

    I can't imagine the concept of love not being the number one reason for getting married. When it all came down to it, the number one (and maybe only...HAHA..just kidding) reason that I married my husband after a crappy divorce and being single and picky for over 10 years...is LOVE. We are SO poor right now and I have had many chances to have financial security (along with other things) along the way and been in situations where everything looked good on paper. But I walked right on by until I found someone that I love unconditionally and passionately and who felt the exact same way about me. He's also my best friend, but I'm not just talking about that. In some weird way, I knew it was right..when at some point in every other relationship or dating experience I've had, I've gotten SO angry that I've thought "God, I hate him!" at one point or another...and I never ONCE thought that about him. And the man can push my buttons and vice versa!!

    "What kind of person would they like to have at home, after a long and stressful day at work" would never suffice for me. I can't wait to see my husband when both of us get home at night and I know he feels the same way.

    You know what's really bad? I never really considered in my life that people would see things differently than me. I think I always considered T-type people to have a sensitivity chip missing or something "wrong" with them. It never occurred to me that someone could just look at life so differently than me and that I not only understand it, but appreciate and respect the differences. And I'm 35! That's just plain sad! Thank God I'm here!

    I would have to disagree with this statement though: "When facing a problem, Fs are primarily looking for acceptance and support." This is not true for me. I feel like that if I'm facing a problem that has no solution (or I feel it has no solution...like a situation I can't do anything about or a feeling that I just have to sit with), I may look for acceptance and support. When I'm upset or bitching, support and acceptance is good. But if I have a legitimate problem, I am looking for an answer or a solution. Most of the time, I don't mention it to other people until I've decided internally what to do about it. Most of my decision making or problem solving doesn't even get verbalized. If it affects someone else, I may talk it over with them. Or I may ask someone what they would do in a similar situation and take that into my decision making process, but I am looking for a solution if I have a problem.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Lambchop's Avatar
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    By the way, this is not "my" thread...so feel free to highjack! I learn just as much by reading what other people say and ask as asking questions!!

  7. #37
    Senior Member Lambchop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    My father is ISTJ...I actually think that they are in the moment more emotional/friendly than how they rationalize to be when thinking about it (it's meant as something positive)
    I was thinking about this too...and I agree with you and it is a positive thing!

  8. #38
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lambchop View Post

    You know what's really bad? I never really considered in my life that people would see things differently than me. I think I always considered T-type people to have a sensitivity chip missing or something "wrong" with them. It never occurred to me that someone could just look at life so differently than me and that I not only understand it, but appreciate and respect the differences. And I'm 35! That's just plain sad! Thank God I'm here!
    I've always thought of feelers as just being incapable of taking their own needs into consideration or just plain being oversensitive for the sake of attention. :P


  9. #39
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    I've always thought of feelers as just being incapable of taking their own needs into consideration or just plain being oversensitive for the sake of attention. :P
    Ahem. raz, be nice to Lambchop. She's not trying offend you, she's just trying to learn.

  10. #40
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    Ahem. raz, be nice to Lambchop. She's not trying offend you, she's just trying to learn.
    What? What did I say that was meant as an intentionally offensive remark? I was just relating my own experiences to hers. What I said was how I've felt in my life on the T/F difference without knowing it existed.


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