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Thread: ISTJs & ENTJs

  1. #1
    Senior Member 2XtremeENFP's Avatar
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    Default ISTJs & ENTJs

    Do you like to follow/admire ENTJs or challenge their ways?

    The reason I ask is because I know an ENTJ who is manipulative, controlling, and likes to have people dislike him because he feels it gives him power. the ISTJ I am referring to is pretty much blind to this side of the ENTJ. All he sees in the ENTJ is his ability to manage people and get the job done (very, very strong Te). the ISTJ admires his ability to say things how they are and live life without worrying about that person liking him.

    It is frustrating to me to see/hear the ISTJ mimic and glorify the ENTJ because he just is naive to the whole situation. I find myself being stubborn and deliberately disobeying and challenging every thought of the ENTJ just so he doesn't get his way (..is this my Fi??)

    I think the ISTJ just thinks I'm making it a big deal and that I could learn a thing or two from the ENTJ.

    I dunno.. a peice of advice for me to get over it.. (if you SJs think I need to) or ways I could open the eyes of the ISTJ?
    Last edited by 2XtremeENFP; 08-28-2009 at 06:02 PM. Reason: got distracted during the original post....

  2. #2
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    Don't like the ENTJ's controlling ways, since I am a big believer of the philosophy of 'live and let live'. I challenge them if I feel they are not being just. I'm not a fan of their technique anyway, because I have my own and they have theirs. The ENTJs I know in real life, I tend to not get along with because of their sort of forcing method.

    Also, it seems some of them need to chill the hell out. One thing I really like about the ENTJ though is he/she is generally pretty logical.

  3. #3
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    I only know of one ENTJ and I think he's pretty cool. He may perhaps be a bit manipulative but he does no harm with it. I suppose to a certain extent I'll listen to his commands, but I'm not his fangirl or anything. Admire wouldn't be the right word. It's usually just convenient to take orders if he's around. It's also pretty convenient to work with the guy if I need something done. I don't really see how an ENTJ being controlling is a bad thing.

    If I had to guess, this whole problem here is the result of you being an ENFP and your friend being an ISTJ. I would imagine you like to have your freedom. I don't mind it being taken away. In fact, I almost would encourage others to take away my freedom. It's much easier to do a job well when I've got a job to do.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Amira's Avatar
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    I don't know many ENTJs - the one I know best is extremely talkative, blunt, steamroller type who is way too smart for his own good. He can be a pill but if you tell him to shut up and let you talk (even if you said it that bluntly) or if you tell him he is not being considerate to someone by doing/saying X and needs to do X instead, he will try to get better and he doesn't really take it personally. He does make a lot of people mad but I don't mind because the bluntness is funny and if I need to I don't mind withdrawing and going somewhere else. I wouldn't want to be one, though - as far as getting things done I probably most admire the ESTJs on that head and I am always working at doing things in a little more of a Te way.
    Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle. ~Plato

  5. #5
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    I only know one confirmed ENTJ- and since I'm the older and more experienced of us- he's pretty respectful. But he is kind of blunt and tells it like it is. I like that about him. Some of the things he says I wouldn't say in public, but he doesn't seem to mind.

  6. #6
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    XtremeENFP, get out of this thread and go do something productive, NOW!!
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  7. #7
    Senior Member Habba's Avatar
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    ENTJs show what they are. I like it when they stand they ground and not caring what other people say.

    But I'm also very strongly against objective steamrolling. Facts do not give you the right to steamroll beliefs. Each person genuinely thinks they are right, even though objectively they might not be. That's why it's important to understand where everyone is coming from to be able to reason with them. Strong Te might skip this phase and just think that there's one singular truth that will override everything else.

    ENTJs respect facts and truths, so to talk to them, you have to talk in terms of facts and truths. Feelings and subjective viewpoints gets often ignored.

    I have an ENTJ brother, who's currently living in my house (he's waiting to get his own apartment soon). He's a strong character, ready to steamroll anyone. But he listens to facts and reason. And he's not that fast to get hurt emotionally, if someone objects him. He even likes it, because it gives him a chance to prove he's right. So, personal attacks are more of a challenge to him.


    And back to OP.. the reason ISTJ might so look up to the ENTJ is that ISTJs are not people of ideas. They are actually subject to "end justifies the means" kind of thinking. SJ people see results and efficiency, where NF people look for ideals and patterns.

    So, SJ might very well be aware of all the manipulation and controlling ENTJ does, but it's approved because things get done. If you are against getting things done, then you are against them both. If you provide and alternative way to get things done, you might gain ISTJs trust.

    Efficiency. That's the key to ISTJ's heart.

    EDIT: I hope my post wasn't too random.. I had to finish it quickly, because I have to leave for work very soon. :p
    "The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine."
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  8. #8
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    I have a friend who I think is ENTJ... and from an ISTJ point of view, he's a very "charismatic" person. But he's also a guy who doesn't tolerate nonsense or the people who spew it. Furthermore, there's that drive to get things done. I value determination in myself, and I admire it in others, though when it gets to being "ambition" (and he has a lot of ambition), it seems kind of foreign to me.

    Hehe, I'll stop now, I don't even know his type for sure.

    Ways to "open the ISTJ's eyes"... Have to think more on that one.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  9. #9
    Senior Member wrldisquiethere's Avatar
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    Mmmmm, ENTJ.

    Seriously, the one I know is fantastic. He doesn't take crap from anyone, but he gets things done very efficiently. He's also open to change if it is beneficial and tries to mend his ways when it's pointed out to him that he's been unjustifiably inconsiderate of another person. I am not ISTJ, but I'm just saying.... There is such a thing as a mature ENTJ.
    Si, Fe equal Fi & Ti

    "I had a bag of Fritos, they were Texas grilled Fritos. These Fritos had grill marks on them. They remind me of summer, when we used to fire up the barbeque and throw down some Fritos. I can still see my dad with the apron on. Better flip that Frito, dad, you know how I like it." -Mitch Hedberg

  10. #10
    Senior Member Shadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Habba View Post
    ENTJs respect facts and truths, so to talk to them, you have to talk in terms of facts and truths. Feelings and subjective viewpoints gets often ignored.
    I think that's why I like ENTJs. It's not complicated to talk to them, you just say it. My boss is an ENTJ and you can tell the members of staff he understands/appreciates least are the very emotional ones (he's always complaining about them to me)! Apparently he's made a couple of my colleagues cry :s
    It's funny though because he's the one who tells *me* to look at things from a more emotional viewpoint. I suspect he's more expressive and I'm more diplomatic but cold. He doesn't shout at me like with most others - probably because he knows he won't get an emotional reaction!

    I think he's the ideal boss. As far as I see it, he's fair, driven, logical, full of ideas, charismatic and not afraid to push things and face the consequences. I think he respects and appreciates me too; he often confides in me, and he sets me tough challenges and responsibilities.
    Mind you, sometimes I've come away feeling like I've totally backed down on something when talking to him, and wonder if I should have been more forceful. I have been forceful on occasion and he's actually taken it well.

    I've often wondered at the portrayal of ISTJ as an ideal right-hand man, but certainly with my boss I'm happy in that role. Before I started work I'd always thought of myself as very much liking to be in control, but I'd rather implement someone else's (good) ideas to perfection. ENTJ provides ideas and approves of efficiency and logic.

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