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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheChosenOne View Post
    +1

    Making a decision without getting all the information satisfies the J in the ISTJ, they want to be done with things, and put those things behind them.
    That's utterly baffling to someone with high Ne! Make a decision without information? You're just stumbling in the dark! LOL!

    The talk of just wanting to get things out of the way makes me laugh as well. What's the point of life, I mean where are you enjoying life if you're just seeing it as a succession of moments and things to get done and over with, out of the way?

    But then, IxTJ's have never been known much for their sense of fun
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheChosenOne View Post
    It is all of the above and more. Getting something done (especially something I don't like) gives me a good feeling, one of accomplishment. And the more I get done, the better I feel. It's probably the J in ISTJ that's doing this in my brain. Sometimes I'll feel lazy, but if I actually get to completing something rather than waiting around, I feel much better since I don't have to do to that dastardly act later on in the future. One less thing to worry about, one more reason to relax. Get my drift?
    So its the looking back and thinking, I did that, that drives the feeling of accomplishment. The harder the task the bigger the feeling of accomplishment. So for an ISTJ getting in your head can be either a realization of all the tasks ahead(which causes stress) or looking back at what you have accomplished(a feeling of being worth).

  3. #13
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    That's utterly baffling to someone with high Ne! Make a decision without information? You're just stumbling in the dark! LOL!

    The talk of just wanting to get things out of the way makes me laugh as well. What's the point of life, I mean where are you enjoying life if you're just seeing it as a succession of moments and things to get done and over with, out of the way?

    But then, IxTJ's have never been known much for their sense of fun
    Ah, but keep in mind - I said that I do this with tasks that I DON'T enjoy. With the things I do enjoy, I really don't try to hurry myself up like this. And yeah my Ne is pathetically low, so that may drive the ISTJs to do this too.


    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    So its the looking back and thinking, I did that, that drives the feeling of accomplishment. The harder the task the bigger the feeling of accomplishment. So for an ISTJ getting in your head can be either a realization of all the tasks ahead(which causes stress) or looking back at what you have accomplished(a feeling of being worth).
    Yeah, the first part you got right, the fact that accomplishing something brings a feeling of satisfaction. Looking at the tasks ahead doesn't really involve much stress, it's just not something I like to do. But if there are many tasks ahead (even if there are few), I like to get them over and done with so I can relax.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheChosenOne View Post
    Ah, but keep in mind - I said that I do this with tasks that I DON'T enjoy. With the things I do enjoy, I really don't try to hurry myself up like this. And yeah my Ne is pathetically low, so that may drive the ISTJs to do this too.




    Yeah, the first part you got right, the fact that accomplishing something brings a feeling of satisfaction. Looking at the tasks ahead doesn't really involve much stress, it's just not something I like to do. But if there are many tasks ahead (even if there are few), I like to get them over and done with so I can relax.
    So is what causes you stress is when you do work your but off and you are not allowed to relax. Do you feel like you did it all for nothing?

    Where does fun work itself in?

  5. #15
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    According to Lenore Thompson, Ne is the ability to see the big picture. To put something in its appropriate context. Examples include hearing music not as a bunch of individual notes, but a collection of them or recognizing a face (which is made up on many individual parts). Additionally, it allows us to understand that a panther in a jungle is dangerous but a panther in a zoo is not.

    Ne on the wrong track will spot a pattern from a few pieces of information and start making inaccurate generalizations. I suppose an example might be Harry Potter. And just in general, induction is prone to making mistakes. You can cross the street ten (or even a thousand) times, not get hit by a car, and come to the (inaccurate) conclusion that it's always safe to cross the street.

    But I think I can say from experience that having some Ne when trying to solve a problem is valuable. People way too often focus on irrelevant information. Additionally, sometimes you really do just have to make a decision. If you've ever experienced fear in your life, you ought to know what it's like to use Ne and why it might have been important to our ancestors. Also, just from personal experience, I find people with dominant or secondary Ne to be phenomenal chess players.

    Generally though, I love to have as much information as I can. Not necessarily to make a decision, but to be more precise with it. Plus, with Si being dominant, I can reuse that information in the future. And at least with myself, I'm a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to things that are important to me. To go with whatever little information I know to consciously make potentially poor decisions would be impossible.

    And just generally, even when I have my moments of genuine Ne (I suppose you'd call them "aha!" moments?) I always go back to make sure everything checks out. ENxPs are satisfied with their new thought without having to work out the details.

  6. #16
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    I was talking to my dad and while trying to give all the detail I could tell half way through he stopped listening and it kinda confirmed what I noticed when he said "can I talk now" before I was done explaining things in more detail.
    I recognize that, and I usually do it because the argument has been misrepresented, whether intentionally or not. When the basis of your argument sits on 3, 4, or 5 pieces of shaky foundation, and I just hear them keep coming, I try to stop the misinformation before it can get any worse, with the idea that "that will clear up a lot of your disagreement with my position."
    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    What drives J in an ISTJ? I notice when they feel challenged or threatened they try to come out with a solution before others. It seems like its the J that pushes Ne to be inferior. What drives ISTJs to have a desire to make a decision without getting all the information?
    Don't know about this part, it doesn't sound familiar. People know me as a very slow decision-maker, because I spend a lot of time double-checking and triple-checking possible courses of action to take before doing something, especially if it can't be changed afterward. Highly cautious attitude. Now once I've finally decided, I don't like giving up and I want to see it through to the end, sure.

    Though we could both be looking at the same situation and be seeing two different things, I guess.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  7. #17
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    So is what causes you stress is when you do work your but off and you are not allowed to relax. Do you feel like you did it all for nothing?

    Where does fun work itself in?
    Yes! It's like I have to relax at some point after I work. If I know in advance that I won't be able to relax, then I won't bother working as hard. I would relax on the job in that case. Fun = relaxation, whatever that may be for each person.

    EDIT: Cimarron and BlueSky above have shown that not all ISTJ's rush to make decisions, some are slow decision-makers.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueSky View Post
    According to Lenore Thompson, Ne is the ability to see the big picture. To put something in its appropriate context. Examples include hearing music not as a bunch of individual notes, but a collection of them or recognizing a face (which is made up on many individual parts). Additionally, it allows us to understand that a panther in a jungle is dangerous but a panther in a zoo is not.

    Ne on the wrong track will spot a pattern from a few pieces of information and start making inaccurate generalizations. I suppose an example might be Harry Potter. And just in general, induction is prone to making mistakes. You can cross the street ten (or even a thousand) times, not get hit by a car, and come to the (inaccurate) conclusion that it's always safe to cross the street.

    But I think I can say from experience that having some Ne when trying to solve a problem is valuable. People way too often focus on irrelevant information. Additionally, sometimes you really do just have to make a decision. If you've ever experienced fear in your life, you ought to know what it's like to use Ne and why it might have been important to our ancestors. Also, just from personal experience, I find people with dominant or secondary Ne to be phenomenal chess players.

    Generally though, I love to have as much information as I can. Not necessarily to make a decision, but to be more precise with it. Plus, with Si being dominant, I can reuse that information in the future. And at least with myself, I'm a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to things that are important to me. To go with whatever little information I know to consciously make potentially poor decisions would be impossible.

    And just generally, even when I have my moments of genuine Ne (I suppose you'd call them "aha!" moments?) I always go back to make sure everything checks out. ENxPs are satisfied with their new thought without having to work out the details.
    So do you use fear or dominance to try and get others to make a decision? I have never really used fear to make a decision, I can honestly say I have tried to make someone afraid to get what I wanted, but noticed it tends to back fire in the long run when they no longer even want to try something that you scared them about.

    The example I was referring to with a co-worker usually happens when we run into troubleshooting. He seems to take the first error that relates and runs with it. I can on the other hand see that its not the root, but is related to the root problem. Sometimes I do focus on irrelevant information when I am trying to lead something in a certain direction.

    What do you mean precise if its not for a decision? Is this referring to detail of things. Is this like my dad wanting to learn geographical location so when he talk about things he can be very precise? So its more for informational purposes instead of actually being put to use.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    So do you use fear or dominance to try and get others to make a decision? I have never really used fear to make a decision, I can honestly say I have tried to make someone afraid to get what I wanted, but noticed it tends to back fire in the long run when they no longer even want to try something that you scared them about.
    What do you mean precise if its not for a decision? Is this referring to detail of things. Is this like my dad wanting to learn geographical location so when he talk about things he can be very precise? So its more for informational purposes instead of actually being put to use.
    I just mean that our ancestors didn't have enough time to study whether or not that stick looking thing was just a stick or a poisonous snake. They had to use what they immediately had to make a decision. It could be right or wrong, but that's irrelevant. There's no point in taking the risk if it could at all be reasonably be inferred it's a snake. Our ancestors developed fear as a means for survival and we still possess it today. Ne is used when we mistake a shadow for a thief and when we mistake someone grabbing something out of their pocket as reaching for a gun. It's just induction really.

    To answer your questions though, I don't use fear or dominance to get people to make a decision. I really dislike trying to control or manipulate people, as if I were to be found out I could no longer be trusted. The only time I use fear is when I remind somebody of the potential consequences (as in, if you cheat on that test, you risk getting a 0).

    As for me wanting to be precise, that partly comes from wanting to impress people with my knowledge, but more practically, to be precise allows me to confidently state my decision. I mean, it's like taking a stance on anything, say the right to bear arms. If I just said I don't think people should have guns, that doesn't mean much. But if I can say that X% of all murders involved a firearm, then I am in a better position. The way that your dad employs precision is also particularly valued (I just wasn't thinking that when I said I wanted to be precise).

    The example I was referring to with a co-worker usually happens when we run into troubleshooting. He seems to take the first error that relates and runs with it. I can on the other hand see that its not the root, but is related to the root problem. Sometimes I do focus on irrelevant information when I am trying to lead something in a certain direction.
    Yeah, so clearly your ISTJ co-worker is lacking in Ne. (All of us ISTJs are technically.) He probably doesn't even realize it. I'm not sure what you might do to help if he truly is just unable to see that these problems are only one piece of a bigger problem. I suppose we can thank God that he didn't become a doctor.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheChosenOne View Post
    Ah, but keep in mind - I said that I do this with tasks that I DON'T enjoy. With the things I do enjoy, I really don't try to hurry myself up like this. And yeah my Ne is pathetically low, so that may drive the ISTJs to do this too.
    with those tasks you don't enjoy, high Ne would say "find a way to enjoy it, even if it means exploring every tangent on the way!"
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

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