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  1. #11
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppy View Post
    Usually it goes something like this (at least for this example)
    Me: I don't really need to go get my hair cut, they always charge too much and I can just as easily cut it myself.
    Mom: But professionals can cut it so that when it grows out it still looks good.
    Me: My hair is like 2 feet long already. It's not going to change shape when it gets longer.
    Mom: But you're going off to college in the fall so we should get your hair cut before you leave!
    Me: ? (not seeing how that makes a difference)
    Mom: (pretends to acquiesce, changes subject, next time we're on the phone alerts me that she has scheduled us both appointments for hair and nails).
    Me:

    When I'm considering something, I'm thinking "What is the point of this? How can it be done most efficiently? Is there a better way?", and that's usually what I voice.

    No amount of explaining the reason behind why I think x seems to change that for her, which I guess is why I initially was wondering if there was a better way to communicate my sentiments besides my usual "if x then y" approach which doesn't exactly take into account what something means to her. It seems to me that she attaches sentimental value to things that I would consider to be strictly business.

    Hah, so in some ways I've answered my own question. I would feel loved if she listened to my opinion, but she expresses love by providing, and if I openly reject her gift she's hurt (but I'm not thinking of it as a gift, I'm thinking of it as an extravagance). A lot of times it's easier to just give in, but then we end up playing passive aggressive games behind each other's backs, which isn't exactly ideal.
    That's why i so love having boys. They want new clothes or a haircut then they come to me and i pay.
    Have you never just told your mum the bolded part above. We get stuck in our own little world sometimes that we forget how the other person are feeling. I think no matter how sensitive someone is, people need to be told things just so they are aware. It's then up to them how to take this new information on board.

    Maybe that is the difference between the I/E then. If someone can give me a better way, I'll take it on board. I am not one for extravagance anyway.
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

  2. #12
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Yeah, saslou's methods seem pretty good. Mine tend to consist of either telling my mother to open her ears, open her f*cking ears, or swearing every second word till she cries and leaves me alone. Then again by the time I adopted that method I had lost 70% of my use for her through doing things myself...
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

    INFP, 6w7, IEI

    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

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  3. #13
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by runvardh View Post
    Yeah, saslou's methods seem pretty good. Mine tend to consist of either telling my mother to open her ears, open her f*cking ears, or swearing every second word till she cries and leaves me alone. Then again by the time I adopted that method I had lost 70% of my use for her through doing things myself...
    You swear at your mother? Oh my word. Don't get me wrong, in her presence i swear but i would never dream of telling her to open her fucking ears.

    That lacks tact.
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

  4. #14
    triple nerd score poppy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saslou View Post
    That's why i so love having boys. They want new clothes or a haircut then they come to me and i pay.
    Have you never just told your mum the bolded part above. We get stuck in our own little world sometimes that we forget how the other person are feeling. I think no matter how sensitive someone is, people need to be told things just so they are aware. It's then up to them how to take this new information on board.

    Maybe that is the difference between the I/E then. If someone can give me a better way, I'll take it on board. I am not one for extravagance anyway.
    I don't think I've ever told her that, I really only just now figured it out I might give that a try the next time something like this comes up. If that doesn't work I'll resort to plan A: super lovey cuddley hug explanation.

    Quote Originally Posted by runvardh View Post
    Yeah, saslou's methods seem pretty good. Mine tend to consist of either telling my mother to open her ears, open her f*cking ears, or swearing every second word till she cries and leaves me alone. Then again by the time I adopted that method I had lost 70% of my use for her through doing things myself...
    Hm...that sounds like a distinctly unpleasant dynamic.
    "There's no need to be embarrassed about it, Mr. Spock. It happens to the birds and the bees!"

  5. #15
    No moss growing on me Giggly's Avatar
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    poppy, if she's insisting on getting your hair cut, how about you just cut your hair yourself? I think if you did it, as opposed to mentioning to her that you can do it yourself, she will see the results and then have no more qualms. I'm wondering if there is an issue here of you not actually wanting to cut your hair, which is a whole other can of worms to deal with in terms of your mother wanting something else for you.

  6. #16
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saslou View Post
    You swear at your mother? Oh my word. Don't get me wrong, in her presence i swear but i would never dream of telling her to open her fucking ears.

    That lacks tact.
    Quote Originally Posted by poppy View Post
    Hm...that sounds like a distinctly unpleasant dynamic.
    I was as big as her by 12 and was finished with being emotionally manipulated by 14. It ended up the only way she would listen or even seem like she was. Probably had something to do with me using the language her father did while she was growing up (grandpa was an alcoholic). I haven't had to talk to her that way in about 5 years, but it's been 5 years since I've spent more than an hour or 3 with her. I also haven't had to give her directions in 6 years.
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

    INFP, 6w7, IEI

    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

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  7. #17
    triple nerd score poppy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    poppy, if she's insisting on getting your hair cut, how about you just cut your hair yourself? I think if you did it, as opposed to mentioning to her that you can do it yourself, she will see the results and then have no more qualms. I'm wondering if there is an issue here of you not actually wanting to cut your hair, which is a whole other can of worms to deal with in terms of your mother wanting something else for you.
    I usually do cut my hair when I can. But I can see why you'd mention that as it would seem a straightforward solution. Also if I tell her "Oh don't worry about it I just cut it myself last weekend" she gets kind of...whiny? I wish there was a better way to put it. And it's just one example of many similar stalemates we have.
    "There's no need to be embarrassed about it, Mr. Spock. It happens to the birds and the bees!"

  8. #18
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by runvardh View Post
    I was as big as her by 12 and was finished with being emotionally manipulated by 14. It ended up the only way she would listen or even seem like she was. Probably had something to do with me using the language her father did while she was growing up (grandpa was an alcoholic). I haven't had to talk to her that way in about 5 years, but it's been 5 years since I've spent more than an hour or 3 with her. I also haven't had to give her directions in 6 years.
    Is your mum an ISFJ?
    I am so sorry but i am going to be incredibly blunt here.
    So you used the same language as your grandfather had done, bearing in mind this may of resulted in some serious mental issues for your mother yet you did it anyway. Is no one aware of the bigger picture here.
    Granted, as a kid, you don't know any better. As an adult though, it is probably best you do stay away.

    I am not saying her behaviour is excusable in anyway. EVERYONE should be held accountable for their actions.
    As adults though, it does take 2 to tango.
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

  9. #19
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saslou View Post
    Is your mum an ISFJ?
    I am so sorry but i am going to be incredibly blunt here.
    So you used the same language as your grandfather had done, bearing in mind this may of resulted in some serious mental issues for your mother yet you did it anyway. Is no one aware of the bigger picture here.
    Granted, as a kid, you don't know any better. As an adult though, it is probably best you do stay away.

    I am not saying her behaviour is excusable in anyway. EVERYONE should be held accountable for their actions.
    As adults though, it does take 2 to tango.
    No, I didn't know what happened when she was growing up till I was 18. I also think she's SP. I'd rather a mother like one of my grandmothers, even based soley on parent/aunt/uncle reports.

    Edit: I do have a great-grandmother who is ISFJ, usually you just bow some while repeating thank you, lead her to her chair in the livingroom, and bring her tea. If I didn't do enough smile and thank you, I'd end up with a stomach ache. My maternal grandmother, on the other hand, can be given a straight "no thank you" with an equally enticing alternative.
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

    INFP, 6w7, IEI

    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  10. #20
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by runvardh View Post
    No, I didn't know what happened when she was growing up till I was 18. I also think she's SP.
    Ohhh. OK then.
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
    ― Georgia O'Keeffe

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