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  1. #11
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    At some point mental problems override MBTI preferences.

  2. #12
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    That's an interesting point.

    Would you say that ISTJs are more effected by their surroundings (societally speaking) than other types?
    Yes.

  3. #13
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    At some point mental problems override MBTI preferences.
    ISTJ is the only MBTI preference with a penchant towards apathy.
    Of course you can call it a mental problem.

  4. #14
    Wannabe genius Splittet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    ISTJ is the only MBTI preference with a penchant towards apathy.
    Of course you can call it a mental problem.
    Sorry, but the theory is not exactly obvious to me … What are your arguments for it?

    Same goes for:

    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    In good or bad, the ISTJ is affected by the environment more than any other type.
    Aren’t extroverts on average more affected by the environment than introverts? And what makes ISTJs more affected by environment than ISFJs? As far as secondary functions go, I would argue Fe is far more confirming in nature than Te …

  5. #15
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Aren’t extroverts on average more affected by the environment than inroverts? And what makes ISTJs more affected by environment than ISFJs? As far as secondary functions go, I would argue Fe is far more confirming in nature than Te …
    I would say that his very dominant Si makes him very vulnerable to freaking out when his external circumstances change, or in fact when anything changes at all, either internally or externally.

    He's also liable to panic when confronted with choices - he gets paralysed with fear of making The Wrong Choice, believing as he does in absolutes, blacks and whites and no greys. I remember when he went to buy a vacuum and I went with him. He walked into the shop, looked at the different vacuums all in a row, stood stock still for a moment, then ran out of the shop, fell down against the wall shaking and panicking. He was overwhelmed with anxiety at the prospect that he had to choose from so many, and terrified that he'd choose The Wrong One. He equates correctness/accuracy with morality/worthiness as a person, and judges himself by those criteria. If he Gets Things Wrong then it means he's a Bad Person, in his mind. He's seriously screwed up.

    As for Wildcat's comments regarding socialism etc - the man has OCD, which is in the WHO's top ten of most debilitating mental illnesses. It's not a con or a game, dude, he's seriously nuts. It's not that the system supports his laziness, more that the health system fails to support him. I know and he knows that he's not fit for normal society and needs full time professional care. However, not only are there no beds spare, but even when he was in the nut ward, it didn't help him at all because they're so understaffed and underfunded. A man who will happily let a banknote blow away in the wind rather than bend down and pick it up, and who can't open a bank account because he won't touch the post that comes through the letterbox - all because he won't touch anything that's been on the floor - is not employable. You don't think he's just faking it as an excuse to be lazy do you - to the tune of all those lost banknotes, and all the other many things that he's "lost" due to them having fallen on the floor?

    This isn't the fault of 'Europe' or 'socialism' - all societies in all times have had a million mechanisms whereby people can become poor and miserable and stay that way, whether through their own fault or not.

    In any case, all the 'official' systems that are supposed to help and support him are and have been singly failing to do so, and as his other friends and family have given up on him and I seem to be the only one left, I feel as though I have to do what I can to help him, but it's very difficult because he's so pig-headed and as I say, takes a 'fundamentalist' approach to everything in life, plus I'm not naturally the most patient or sympathetic of people anyway. But I'm all he's got.

    It just seems as though his own temperament is working against him, no matter how much he wants to get better. He does have some redeeming qualities ... lol... otherwise I doubt I'd have stuck by him for so many years!!

    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    At some point mental problems override MBTI preferences.
    Agreed, but I'm wondering to what extent his MBTI preferences have influenced the progress of his mental illness or even his vulnerability to it in the first place, and how they also act as a 'natural' impediment or hindrance to his ever getting better. If I were to picture OCD and his general attitude as a preying monster, I expect it'd slather with glee when it comes across an ISXJ.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

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  6. #16
    Wannabe genius Splittet's Avatar
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    substitute, why did you quote me? I can't see how what you quoted by me relates to what you wrote. *confused*

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Splittet View Post
    substitute, why did you quote me? I can't see how what you quoted by me relates to what you wrote. *confused*
    I was explaining/answering your question/point about whether ISTJ's were strongly affected by the world/environment around them. Quite literally forwardslashtastic, mate.*

    In other words I was saying yes they are, probably more so than even me as a true extravert, in the respect that they have a great need for their environment to be stable, whereas I'll wing it and manage whatever my environment 'does'.

    Oh yeah, and he has a need to be seen as always Being Correct.

    Tsk - J's! Always have to connect the dots for 'em



    *British joke thing, don't worry if you don't get it
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    I was explaining/answering your question/point about whether ISTJ's were strongly affected by the world/environment around them. Quite literally forwardslashtastic, mate.*

    In other words I was saying yes they are, probably more so than even me as a true extravert, in the respect that they have a great need for their environment to be stable, whereas I'll wing it and manage whatever my environment 'does'.

    Tsk - J's! Always have to connect the dots for 'em


    *British joke thing, don't worry if you don't get it
    I was confused because you misunderstood my post (I did suspect you had). Just because I say extroverts on average are more affected by their environments than introverts, doesn’t mean every extroverted type on average is more affected by their environment than every introverted type. It does however indicate that the type most affected by his environment would be extroverted (and I was trying to raise some question as to why the ISTJ type is maybe not the type MOST affected by environment). Anyhow, I guess I should rather have said extroversion correlates with being affected by the environment. That would have been easier to understand.

    When you are talking about these things people seem to misunderstand you whatever you say. They seem to be paranoid you have a B&W view, and read you as if you have, whenever they get the chance.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Splittet View Post

    When you are talking about these things people seem to misunderstand you whatever you say. They seem to be paranoid you have a B&W view, and read you as if you have, whenever they get the chance.
    LOL I always seem to have these cross-wires things with INTJ's, I don't know why, but it's always you guys - maybe cos I'm sorta the king of what y'all see as 'irrelevances'

    No, I didn't misunderstand you - I got your point and I was sorta half-agreeing with it, but with a caveat that I think people with high Si are probably the most affected by the environment - purely the environment itself, as opposed to their relationship with it or use for/of it - in that if that environment changes, the SJ is flustered and the ISJ hits the panic button. I guess you could say that I was agreeing with your I/E axis there, but proposing another axis that correlates strength of Si preference with the same thing. That is, the same result can be caused by different things.

    I didn't think you had a B&W view - I think maybe you're paranoid that people are paranoid that you have a B&W view I wasn't thinking anything of the sort I was just adding something else that I saw as vaguely relevant to the discussion in general, not necessarily you personally. I actually think you're pretty cool.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

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    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by substitute View Post
    No, I didn't misunderstand you - I got your point and I was sorta half-agreeing with it, but with a caveat that I think people with high Si are probably the most affected by the environment - purely the environment itself, as opposed to their relationship with it or use for/of it - in that if that environment changes, the SJ is flustered and the ISJ hits the panic button.
    I would speculate Si and Fe are the two most confirming functions, by far. That would make either the ESFJ type or ISFJ type most affected by their environment. I simply cannot see a reason why ISTJs would be more affected by their environment than these two types.

    Anyhow, no hard feelings.

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