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  1. #1
    heart on fire
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    Default SJ---Breaking Rules

    So according to what we're told in MBTI type literature, SJ types believe deeply in rules and tradition. But all humans fall into error.

    Here's a sensitive question that I would be grateful for an SJ to shed light on. What is the thought process or rationalization process that an SJ would go through when tempted to break the rules. Like say, Adultery as an easy example, but any example will do.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    1. What's the benefit?
    2. How much negative impact will this have on others?
    3. Am I compromising on a major value for myself?

    4. For serious issues like adultery if I were to do it. I'd probably be thinking: Do I really care?

    Listening to music and the likes would be the most obvious rule breaking thing that I engage in.

  3. #3
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    1. Is there a route I could take that WOULDN'T involve breaking the rules?
    2. Is the rule unfair?
    3. Is it a very serious rule, or a small, less significant one?
    4. Would it be hypocritical of me to break this rule?
    5. Is it worth it?
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Habba's Avatar
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    1. Am I breaking the idea behind the rule, or just the rule itself.
    2. Is this rule causing loss of efficiency?
    3. If the rule should be broken, will the consequences be negative?
    4. Am I bound to honor this rule?

    Maybe it could something like that.

    It wasn't until some time ago I realized one thing about traffic lights. They are there to give priorities to people and vehicles (green light), not telling who must not cross (red). Therefore, I have no problem crossing streets on red, if there's no one else to use their priority (green). So practically I looked behind the rule to understand why it is there, and then applied the rule so that I would only break the rule (you must not cross the street on red), while not breaking the idea behind the rule (The ones with green light are supposed to go first).

    Rules and structure feel so natural to SJs that they rather question the absence of rules and order, than question the existing rules. That's why I have to keep telling myself to see beyond the rules, to understand the reason why the rule exists.
    "The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine."
    -Nikola Tesla

  5. #5
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Default

    SJs often conform to norms, and the wider societal norms tell them to follow the rules, but sometimes their closer social group sanctions or encourages breaking certain rules.

    And because peer pressure is often felt more strongly than societal pressure, they'll sometimes follow the former and break the latter when they conflict.

    That's the exception I've seen in SJs, especially with regards to drug use.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Habba View Post
    1. Am I breaking the idea behind the rule, or just the rule itself.
    2. Is this rule causing loss of efficiency?
    3. If the rule should be broken, will the consequences be negative?
    4. Am I bound to honor this rule?

    Maybe it could something like that.

    It wasn't until some time ago I realized one thing about traffic lights. They are there to give priorities to people and vehicles (green light), not telling who must not cross (red). Therefore, I have no problem crossing streets on red, if there's no one else to use their priority (green). So practically I looked behind the rule to understand why it is there, and then applied the rule so that I would only break the rule (you must not cross the street on red), while not breaking the idea behind the rule (The ones with green light are supposed to go first).

    Rules and structure feel so natural to SJs that they rather question the absence of rules and order, than question the existing rules. That's why I have to keep telling myself to see beyond the rules, to understand the reason why the rule exists.
    That's quite cool. It's sort of interesting that many people don't mind jail walking or crossing the roads when the lights are red, but when it comes to driving it's slightly different. Suppose it's a matter of risk assessment and the feeling that it's easier to just wait it out.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Habba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    That's quite cool. It's sort of interesting that many people don't mind jail walking or crossing the roads when the lights are red, but when it comes to driving it's slightly different. Suppose it's a matter of risk assessment and the feeling that it's easier to just wait it out.
    When I cross the street by foot, I'm the one taking the risk.
    When I drive a car on reds, I'm putting that risk on someone else. That's not cool. (plus I don't even have a license. )
    "The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine."
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  8. #8
    Pronounced eye-ee-dee Eiddy's Avatar
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    1. If I break a rule I think about how it will affect me in the long run (my own self-respect).
    2. I have noticed it may not be all about morals per se, but the fact that I don't want someone waving it in my face later.
    3. If I will break a rule it has to exceed the cares of what other think. If I feel that I am justified.
    4. I may break a rule if I feel it is insignificant and I am not profiting off of it anyhow, like file sharing, etc..
    Johari / Nohari

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  9. #9
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    How will this affect me? What is the benefit? Will the consequences be bad enough to warrant not doing it? Can I do it in some other way without getting caught?

  10. #10
    Senior Member Snow Turtle's Avatar
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    I wonder if there is a significant difference between how temperaments would react to doing something against the law, assuming they never got caught. Just reminds me of an ENTP friend who kept talking about how he'd do stuff as long as he had a button to reverse time. I wasn't so keen on the stuff that would hurt other people.

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