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  1. #21
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    Do you want to know if you can fall in love over time? Yes, yes, you can. It helps a lot if you turn what you perceive to be negative traits about her into positive traits. You do this within yourself, or within your own mind.
    Honestly, that's one thing that does bother me- I tend to dwell on negative things and magnify them.

    Thanks for that thought!

    Are any of you ISTJs like that- dwell on negatives and it gets in the way of a good thing?

  2. #22
    No me digas, che! Recoleta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    A good friend of mine - don't know his MBTI, but he said he wasn't one of those guys who is head over heels in love, but rationalized that if it's worth more to be with her than without her, then he had his answer.

    So my fellow ISTJs, and the Ns that will come in even though you aren't 'officially' invited (Ns run amuck in these forums), how do you know you are in love?
    I think your friend's definition loosely aligns with what I think.

    For me, love has always been something that has grown with time. I have never been able to just date some guy that doesn't know me. Any guy I have ever been interested in I have gotten to know over time.

    With that said, I know I love someone when I spend the time and effort to integrate them into the daily aspects of my life. They meet my family and friends, I talk to/see them frequently, I make decisions while keeping them in mind, I think of ways I can help the other person and make them happy, I put their needs above my own, and I want nothing more than to see the other person be happy. I go to them first when I have good or bad news, I feel comfortable giving them access to my ideas and feelings, and I am ok with being vulnerable and silly around them.

    Overall, they become a person who I wouldn't want to live without. I miss them when I'm not around them, I admire their character, and I just want to be with them...even if we are just sitting in silence. I think the true test of whether I love someone or not happens during disagreements or arguments. Usually I am logical and can avoid getting emotional during a disagreement, but if I love the person it truly hurts me to fight with them.

    Anyway, this is probably terribly optimistic...and it's not like I'm really speaking from experience here. I've never been married or anything, but thus far in life, the above signs have told me that the people who fit the criteria are people who I love very much.

  3. #23
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Recoleta View Post
    I think your friend's definition loosely aligns with what I think.

    For me, love has always been something that has grown with time. I have never been able to just date some guy that doesn't know me. Any guy I have ever been interested in I have gotten to know over time.

    With that said, I know I love someone when I spend the time and effort to integrate them into the daily aspects of my life. They meet my family and friends, I talk to/see them frequently, I make decisions while keeping them in mind, I think of ways I can help the other person and make them happy, I put their needs above my own, and I want nothing more than to see the other person be happy. I go to them first when I have good or bad news, I feel comfortable giving them access to my ideas and feelings, and I am ok with being vulnerable and silly around them.

    Overall, they become a person who I wouldn't want to live without. I miss them when I'm not around them, I admire their character, and I just want to be with them...even if we are just sitting in silence. I think the true test of whether I love someone or not happens during disagreements or arguments. Usually I am logical and can avoid getting emotional during a disagreement, but if I love the person it truly hurts me to fight with them.

    Anyway, this is probably terribly optimistic...and it's not like I'm really speaking from experience here. I've never been married or anything, but thus far in life, the above signs have told me that the people who fit the criteria are people who I love very much.
    Yeah that's what I'm feeling as well- but since it's not what's described by most, I question whether it's valid at all.

    I know that something's there because I do consider her for stuff, ask her to accompany me to events, use the word 'us' in some things, just little things here and there that, if this was a few months ago, I would have not done.

    THANKS!

  4. #24
    No me digas, che! Recoleta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    Yeah that's what I'm feeling as well- but since it's not what's described by most, I question whether it's valid at all.

    I know that something's there because I do consider her for stuff, ask her to accompany me to events, use the word 'us' in some things, just little things here and there that, if this was a few months ago, I would have not done.

    THANKS!
    Don't worry about what's described by most...everyone experiences and expresses love differently. What's important is how the two of you feel about each other and the way you two choose to communicate your needs and feelings for one another. Who cares if it's unconventional or is misaligned with the norm. Let's be real, the norm gets most of their notions of love from the Disney channel and romantic comedies...that's not love, nor is it real life. No wonder so many marriages fail every year! I think Bubbles had a really good point early on in the thread...ISTJs don't have such a problem committing as they do figuring out that they love someone. That's true for me, at least.

    For me, falling in love is just as much a head decision as it is a heart decision...if the 2 aren't in agreement, I can't proceed.

  5. #25
    Perfect Gentleman! =D d@v3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    I suppose you want us to tell you that ISTJs just don't fall in love?
    I think it's easy for ISTJ's to FAIL at love... that's why we need to be extra careful... as usual.
    Freedom Isn't Free. [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  6. #26
    See Right Through Me Bubbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Recoleta View Post
    Don't worry about what's described by most...everyone experiences and expresses love differently. What's important is how the two of you feel about each other and the way you two choose to communicate your needs and feelings for one another. Who cares if it's unconventional or is misaligned with the norm. Let's be real, the norm gets most of their notions of love from the Disney channel and romantic comedies...that's not love, nor is it real life. No wonder so many marriages fail every year! I think Bubbles had a really good point early on in the thread...ISTJs don't have such a problem committing as they do figuring out that they love someone. That's true for me, at least.

    For me, falling in love is just as much a head decision as it is a heart decision...if the 2 aren't in agreement, I can't proceed.
    Aww, thanks Recoleta. IMO, I think there's something to be said for SJs being able to do things backwards--practicality before warm fuzzies. For one, committing to someone is a form of loving them, even if you don't realize it. You spend time with them, bother to learn who they are, invite them into your life, etc. It's when you open up to them and trust them with more than just the tenets of basic friendship that you begin to love them. For me, it's when I show the vulnerable side of myself, and that person accepts it. That's so freeing. And of course, it's in reverse as well: accepting the other person's weaknesses as well. It creates trust, which is what commitment stems from usually. So by commiting first, sometimes you can forget you have to trust.

    Nothing wrong with moving slowly, though. In fact, as Recoleta noted, most people should...just look at those divorce rates. Ick. :/
    4w3, IEI, so/sx/sp, female, and Cancer sign.

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  7. #27
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Oh boy, I remember the one time I thought I was in love. And as you said, it was something I analyzed and tried to determine through "logical" means. There was never a clear resolution to that situation...(alert: Cheesy stuff ahead) After quite a while, I came up with the question for myself, "If this isn't love, what is?" and let that settle the issue, so that I could tell myself that I did love her.

    Someone else here said "What does it matter, as long as you're both happy?" In lots of situations, that has been useful enough for me. When I was trying to "define" one relationship, neither she nor I had said we were going out with each other, so there was no declaration of boyfriend and girlfriend. And I thought, "So can she be classified as a girlfriend?" I eventually decided to just let it go, the official boundaries not as important as the fact that we both liked each other.

    Don't know whether that helps, but there you go.
    You can't spell "justice" without ISTJ.

  8. #28
    Perfect Gentleman! =D d@v3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    Someone else here said "What does it matter, as long as you're both happy?" In lots of situations, that has been useful enough for me. When I was trying to "define" one relationship, neither she nor I had said we were going out with each other, so there was no declaration of boyfriend and girlfriend. And I thought, "So can she be classified as a girlfriend?" I eventually decided to just let it go, the official boundaries not as important as the fact that we both liked each other.

    Don't know whether that helps, but there you go.
    +1

    Yeah, I've also been in this situation. It's kind of like "what the hell"? Where is the line drawn? I like you, you like me (and both of us are fully aware of this), but we cannot use the universal term "dating"? The whole ordeal was frustrating.

    Happiness and the feeling that you WANT to be near the other person. "Love" is somewhere in between those two. Because if you WANT to be with the person 24/7, well, that my friend, is indeed "infatuation". Infatuation = bad. (In my opinion at least.)

    If you are not happy with the person, then you are probably being played.... I think.

    I think someone said this before but I'm going to add my thoughts: YES! ISTJ's don't usually have any issues comitting, it's just that, in this case anyway, we don't know exactly what we are comitting to!
    Freedom Isn't Free. [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  9. #29
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Recoleta View Post
    Don't worry about what's described by most...everyone experiences and expresses love differently. What's important is how the two of you feel about each other and the way you two choose to communicate your needs and feelings for one another. Who cares if it's unconventional or is misaligned with the norm. Let's be real, the norm gets most of their notions of love from the Disney channel and romantic comedies...that's not love, nor is it real life. No wonder so many marriages fail every year! I think Bubbles had a really good point early on in the thread...ISTJs don't have such a problem committing as they do figuring out that they love someone. That's true for me, at least.

    For me, falling in love is just as much a head decision as it is a heart decision...if the 2 aren't in agreement, I can't proceed.
    Your whole response is the truth....You are right, and I've realized it, that you cannot go on what you see on TV and such, but, as an ISTJ, since we are very much influenced by facts, I can't help but look at how good respected friends have fared in their relationships, and take into consideration their process. It's how I've gotten along all my life, in accomplishing my goals-listening to those who I respect and feel have good information, and use their information (or not) to help me on my course. So if they have a happy relationship, probably happily married, I try to listen to them. And they must be Ns, because a lot of them talk about that 'you will know it when you are in love' line. Maybe it's easy to say that, as some kind of cop out because they can't actually describe it, but that gives me no kind of help. , because a lot of what I've been feeling in this process is new, and some of it isn't good LOL.

    Regarding the bold print- Yeah I have no problem committing- that's the truth! It's easy...okay I'll be your boyfriend LOL. What's the big deal. I won't talk to other chicks....okay, I can barely do 2 things at once now, do you really think I'm going to try to be some playa? She just doesn't know!

    The last statement- the head part is easy- can I see us getting married? Yes. My head was there months ago. My heart hasn't gotten there yet. Not sure if others have felt that, but it's a gradually proceeding, like some wierd project, compared to my fully developed, 5th Generation logical process.

  10. #30
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by d@v3 View Post
    I think it's easy for ISTJ's to FAIL at love... that's why we need to be extra careful... as usual.
    I don't know if I'm scared of the failure....

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