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  1. #31
    Pronounced eye-ee-dee Eiddy's Avatar
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    practical

    Plan for revenge???
    Johari / Nohari

    Enneagram 1w2/Lifepath 1/first zodiac sign Aries/first Chinese zodiac sign RAT/first born in my siblings of 3. Did I forget to mention first?

    Independent Director

  2. #32
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by d@v3 View Post
    the INTJ's like to read poetry
    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew_Z View Post
    [*]The INTJ is likely smarter
    NO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    INTJs are dorkier.
    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheChosenOne View Post
    INTJs are more abstract, imaginative, and head-in-the-clouds. They are more ingenious. In general, they have better leadership ability. They also seem more random (because of the leading Ni).
    YES!

    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    I think that INTJs are more likely to annoy ISTJs then the other way around. (opinions?)
    No. INTs can find Guardians extremely annoying.

    ETA:

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew_Z View Post
    there was a study some time ago that showed that the average INTJ IQ is higher than the average ISTJ IQ.
    1.) Written by an INTJ on a blog
    2.) Without any named sources

  3. #33
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post
    YES!
    Thanks. I've noticed this from interacting with a couple of INTJs I know personally. They're quite different from me, I argue with one of them a lot.

  4. #34
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    The underlying vision is different and makes a big difference in presentation.

    ISTJ's running off Si are using that as a point of reference. If they are in their original environment (the one that originated the Si "hard drive image" so to speak), then they generally will not make waves and only start to cause friction when the culture changes around them, since they want to put it back to "what it should be" or "what makes sense" based on what it used to be.

    INTJ's running from Ni are keying off their internal Ni vision, which might or might not match the external world, and they generally have no fear about challenging or changing things in order to align with what makes sense based on their VISION. You'll see them far more apt to stir things up; ISTJs tend to maintain the original system and challenge changes.

    ISTJs also tend to follow the established social etiquette for that context, where INTJs are again letting Ni + Te guide (so they'll do what they need to do, with the vision and its implementation driving their behavior towards others).

    Both will use Te well to implement what they see -- but you're going to see ISTJ using Te in typical, established, tried-and-true ways (they tend to distrust unproven or speculative procedures)... whereas INTJ is far more apt to use Te to implement speculative ideas that "should" work even if they haven't been tested yet.
    If I really am an ISTJ, this is not necessarily true-at least the ISTJ part anyway. I like to change the ways of things to make everything work better. For me, and others probably, sometimes stirring things up happens. In fact, I honestly don't even try to avoid it, except in certain polite company.
    Johari Nohari

    "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. "--Niccolo Machiavelli

  5. #35
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post
    If I really am an ISTJ, this is not necessarily true-at least the ISTJ part anyway. I like to change the ways of things to make everything work better. For me, and others probably, sometimes stirring things up happens. In fact, I honestly don't even try to avoid it, except in certain polite company.
    +1. The respecting authority part is not true for me if the authority figure has been unfair.

  6. #36
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    I'm not sure that leadership ability is a good criterion for these types. Unless you define leadership as simply taking charge, which would still be doubtful. This is more of a character and individual thing than a personality one imo.
    Johari Nohari

    "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. "--Niccolo Machiavelli

  7. #37
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Take Five View Post
    I'm not sure that leadership ability is a good criterion for these types. Unless you define leadership as simply taking charge, which would still be doubtful. This is more of a character and individual thing than a personality one imo.
    But character goes hand-in-hand with personality, right? Maybe I should rephrase... I think in general INTJs have a better ability to lead, but that doesn't necessarily make them better leaders.

  8. #38
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheChosenOne View Post
    But character goes hand-in-hand with personality, right? Maybe I should rephrase... I think in general INTJs have a better ability to lead, but that doesn't necessarily make them better leaders.
    personality does not equal character. Again, this definition of leadership is problematic. Is leadership ability defined as likeliness to try to take charge? Is skill dependent on how willing others are to follow? To me this is mixing apples with oranges.
    Johari Nohari

    "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. "--Niccolo Machiavelli

  9. #39
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Litvyak View Post



    No. INTs can find Guardians extremely annoying.
    I am waiting how long it will take for this argument to appear.
    I have said this because I think that INTJ is more likely to annoy ISTJ.
    While ISTJ will simply be boring to an INTJ instead of annoying.

    Reverse situations are possible but somwhat less likely.

  10. #40
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle View Post
    IN regards to leadership ability, leaders a grown more so than natural. INTJs might better leaders, but to be a good leader you have to be a good follower. Maybe they are seen as better leaders or more natural leaders in general because they refuse to follow, or have more trouble doing so seeing as ISTJs generally don't have trouble submitting to authority. I say generally because I have authority issues.. I want to be incharge.
    Personally I've never really understood the "to be a good leader you have to be a good follower" maxim. INTJs tend to be good leaders because they are goal-oriented, pragmatic, adaptable and very strategic. With everything they ask themselves "How does this serve the goal, and the critical path to that goal?" If it doesn't, they ditch it and try something else. They don't have a problem with confrontation, yet aren't especially egotistical (at least, not where the goal is concerned) and so are open to suggestion.

    Factors in why they make such poor followers:
    1. high value on autonomy
    2. intolerant of fuzzy thinking, especially when it hinders the goal
    3. often offend leaders when objecting to #2 through lack of diplomacy
    4. natural leadership qualities when coupled with the underrated charisma of this type can lead to them accumulating a following of people disgruntled with the current leadership (or creating one), especially if they are in a position which denies them a realistic ability to change policy
    5. unforgiving of leadership mistakes
    6. generally unhappy doing as they're told if it seems to them to hinder the goal. The reasons for doing something may be ultimately sound and may involve more factors than the INTJ is aware of, but until the INTJ discovers this for themselves they will be unhappy with perceived inefficiency. Some leaders may be fine with explaining how things fit in to the bigger picture, but most probably won't.

    There are more, but this post is too long already.

    I haven't really addressed ISTJs here, but in general I'd say they are more focused on doing things the right way than doing the right things. More concerned with process than with the goal, though that's an oversimplification, and relative.

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