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  1. #71
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beat View Post
    I friggin love you

    I bet you didn't see that one coming, ass.
    no but i saw the snarky ass comment!

    willyoubemyfriendplz?

  2. #72
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post
    does it matter whether you can see an XSTJs emotions or not? Their feelings are so predictable and linear that I don't think it would even matter....
    I'd say the ESTJ has a lot more trouble with introspection of their emotions than ISTJ does.

    My mom is an ISTJ. ISTJ's emotions, when voiced...make sense. They are predictable/linear in that way. I mean, let's be honest, the ISTJ probably wouldn't voice his/her emotions if they didn't make sense for the situation.

    ESTJ? Not so linear. The ESTJ I know is one of the most complex people I've ever met. Coming from an INTP, that's pretty complex! I don't necessarily understand why he makes the choices he does (mostly interpersonal choices). Whereas with my mom, her decisions MAKE SENSE to me. I can see the underlying reason she did this or that. ESTJ kinda leaves me doing a lot of this ----> :rolli:
    ~luck favors the ready~


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  3. #73
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Any of you ESTJs available for comment on that?

  4. #74
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    I'm available for comment! (Jeez, with phrases like that, you should be a reporter.)

    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    I'd say the ESTJ has a lot more trouble with introspection of their emotions than ISTJ does.
    Agreed. I'm not very good with that, although since discovering MBTI, I'm a WHOLE LOT better.

    ESTJ? Not so linear. The ESTJ I know is one of the most complex people I've ever met. Coming from an INTP, that's pretty complex! I don't necessarily understand why he makes the choices he does (mostly interpersonal choices). Whereas with my mom, her decisions MAKE SENSE to me. I can see the underlying reason she did this or that. ESTJ kinda leaves me doing a lot of this ----> :rolli:
    Hm... I hadn't really thought about it... but nozflubber's comment did annoy me because I feel like there's a lot more going on in my head than people think there is. (I just don't know how to express a lot of it in words.) So maybe that's a sign that MDP's got it right. But I have a feeling that ESTJs are all going to have different answers as to what makes their thinking complex, since we don't really introspect enough to diagnose it. So I'll just ramble for a paragraph and see if it gets anywhere :

    I tend to have a lot of inner conflict in my more stressed-out moments. (I refer you all to the "iceman and the child" thread... awesome, accurate concept.) I have many convictions that end up being... well, not NAIVE, per se, but too idealistic to really work out... and those convictions are challenged all the time. The fact that we live with those challenges, and often have to make tough choices that conflict with those convictions (because there's no other option), is probably what makes people think that ESTJs are hypocrites. (And, well, we ARE, but so is everyone, in some way or another.) So, with all that conflict going on (which, presumably, doesn't happen much with INTPs, since they're so inherently realistic and logical), and with none of that conflict spoken of to the people around them, it makes sense that people might think they're kind of two-dimensional in their thinking. (After all, ESTJs are famous for making tough decisions, following through with them, and not looking back, NOT for the complicated thought processes they have to go through to get to those tough decisions.)

    Now, I don't know how much of that paragraph was BS and how much of it might actually refer to other ESTJs, but... hopefully most of it is accurate.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



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  5. #75
    That chalkboard guy Matthew_Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    ISTJ's emotions, when voiced...make sense. They are predictable/linear in that way. I mean, let's be honest, the ISTJ probably wouldn't voice his/her emotions if they didn't make sense for the situation.
    From the perspective of the Jungian Cognitive Functions, Fi is used to supplement the Te in the case of an ISTJ. Emotion is used if it agrees with the analysis created from the Te, and is perhaps even utilized to enhance the analysis. However, if emotion contradicts the the Te analysis, emotion must be discarded for the situation.

    From a slightly different viewpoint, it's logical to use emotions when they're helpful, change them to be helpful if they aren't, and ignore them when they cannot be helpful or made helpful. That way, emotions are utilized to their potential, whatever that potential may be.

    And, lastly, from my personal feelings on it, emotions are treacherous; logic is not. Logic is constant and only shows rational solutions to situations. Emotions vary and lead to whatever ends they may, sometimes to ends that are not desirable.
    If a deaf INFP falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

  6. #76
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew_Z View Post
    it's logical to use emotions when they're helpful, change them to be helpful if they aren't, and ignore them when they cannot be helpful or made helpful. That way, emotions are utilized to their potential, whatever that potential may be.
    You are SO LUCKY that this works for you. I wish I could control my emotions this efficiently. Teach me plz? kthxbai
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  7. #77
    Perfect Gentleman! =D d@v3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    d@v3 - What I mean is that although you may be considered to be strong and reliable by them, the people close to you will ultimately resent putting themselves out there if you are not willing to do so at least on occasion.
    I think this is definitely something I have a problem with and I've been working on fixing it, but I don't know how. I mean, it really effects my ability to make new friends I think, but that will surely all change in August (hopefully)

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    So, what does make you feel close to someone? What behaviour would they exhibit that would bring on those feelings of closeness to them and in turn, how would you show someone that you felt close to them? Would you ever verbalize that? Do you display physical affection easily, or is it difficult? Would it be difficult to tell someone if you love them or are proud of them?
    Well, actions speak louder than words. But I'm not talking about hugging and all that, I'm talking about indirect actions... like small gifts or taking them to dinner or something. Or even just sitting down with them and talking about listening to them and making them feel better when they are down. Making sacrifices for your friends and family works too.

    For instance, my wife will know when I feel close to her because I will tell her, and (when not in public) I won't mind the hugs and all that. And I WILL sacrifice anything and everything for her- even my own life.
    Freedom Isn't Free. [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    ...but probably their biggest role was to help carry the emotional responsibility of pulling the whole thing off. In all three cases, they bailed...
    I am having trouble visualizing emotional responsibility. At the risk of sounding ignorant, is it where you tell the other person doing the planning that it's going to be great and it's going to turn out well?

  9. #79
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I think more like feeling a shared responsibility, making it "us" pulling it off instead of "I'm sure you'll be fine". I'm only referring to cases that it is impossible for one person to pull off what they are being asked to by themselves and there are not really any other people to call on. If someone is doing something only if they have to, maybe with or without a positive attitude and only for what they are specifically asked to do, it leaves the person trying to make the whole thing work by taking on the emotional load not only of effectively getting the job done (which they are none too sure about), but also shouldering the (unverbalized but felt) negative feelings of the other person or (if the SO chooses not to help) the feelings brought on by attempting an impossibly large task alone.

  10. #80
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I'm available for comment! (Jeez, with phrases like that, you should be a reporter.)


    Agreed. I'm not very good with that, although since discovering MBTI, I'm a WHOLE LOT better.


    Hm... I hadn't really thought about it... but nozflubber's comment did annoy me because I feel like there's a lot more going on in my head than people think there is. (I just don't know how to express a lot of it in words.) So maybe that's a sign that MDP's got it right. But I have a feeling that ESTJs are all going to have different answers as to what makes their thinking complex, since we don't really introspect enough to diagnose it. So I'll just ramble for a paragraph and see if it gets anywhere :

    I tend to have a lot of inner conflict in my more stressed-out moments. (I refer you all to the "iceman and the child" thread... awesome, accurate concept.) I have many convictions that end up being... well, not NAIVE, per se, but too idealistic to really work out... and those convictions are challenged all the time. The fact that we live with those challenges, and often have to make tough choices that conflict with those convictions (because there's no other option), is probably what makes people think that ESTJs are hypocrites. (And, well, we ARE, but so is everyone, in some way or another.) So, with all that conflict going on (which, presumably, doesn't happen much with INTPs, since they're so inherently realistic and logical), and with none of that conflict spoken of to the people around them, it makes sense that people might think they're kind of two-dimensional in their thinking. (After all, ESTJs are famous for making tough decisions, following through with them, and not looking back, NOT for the complicated thought processes they have to go through to get to those tough decisions.)

    Now, I don't know how much of that paragraph was BS and how much of it might actually refer to other ESTJs, but... hopefully most of it is accurate.

    I totally think ESTJ's have a lot going on in their heads! It's strange that you said hypocrites. I wouldn't use that word but I think I know what you mean. The ESTJ I know, has told me what is annoying to him or what he wouldn't like in someone else and then he has proceeded to date exactly that. Very strange, in my opinion. But yeah, when I've called him out on this he gives no answer or laughs it off. Total eye-roll material for me, just as my INTP silliness, when it kicks in, can usually guarantee an eye-roll from him.
    ~luck favors the ready~


    Shameless Self-Promotion:MDP2525's Den and the Start of Motorcycle Maintenance

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