[MBTI General] ISTJs/ESTJs Is there anyone who actually sees your true feelings?

[d@v3]

There is always someone who will "listen" to you online and provide feedback. And if there isn't, well, you aren't talking to anyone sepcifically so you can't really be offended by anyone in particular. If people DO offend you, you have the option to just log off or ignore them- temporarily or permanently- without leaving your seat.

AND there is a much better chance of finding someone online who is in a similar situation that you are in and you can possibly help eachother. But not knowing anything about eachother other than the subject at hand, there is little to critisize about or judge about.

People just tend to "get along" better online. Maybe it's because they are more friendly?

 

[Fidelia]

That's interesting - I always wondered if having someone to process things with a little bit would be helpful to you guys or not. I notice that you are vastly underrepresented by percentages on MBTI forums. Is it a lack of interest, or a discomfort in disclosing?

I think these forums offer something different for each type: NFs find out that there are actually others like them, NTs find someone whose eyes don't glaze over to discuss ideas with in detail and so on. If you had to sum it up, what does this offer you? Also what made you interested in MBTI? Many SJs I know are kind of dismissive of it...

 

[Eagle]

Under what circumstances do people see your real feelings? Is there anyone who truly knows you? How do you differentiate between your inner circle and your acquaintances in what you would share? What makes it so uncomfortable to be explicit with how you feel?

Also, do you tend to discuss pros and cons with a person or just mentally make a (mostly unchangeable) decision of what route you plan to take? If it's the second one, on what do you base your choice and why do you feel discussion would be uncomfortable/unnecessary?

Ummm, not that often if ever.
Probably not.
I typically don't share to much if anything anyways. What I do share is based off of where they fall in my friends "groups." I share things with people I trust, and feel strongly towards.

I don't really discuss, it's like inputting factors into a computer. Discussion is not necessarily uncomfortable it's just not necessary.

 

[/DG/]

That's interesting - I always wondered if having someone to process things with a little bit would be helpful to you guys or not. I notice that you are vastly underrepresented by percentages on MBTI forums. Is it a lack of interest, or a discomfort in disclosing?

I think these forums offer something different for each type: NFs find out that there are actually others like them, NTs find someone whose eyes don't glaze over to discuss ideas with in detail and so on. If you had to sum it up, what does this offer you? Also what made you interested in MBTI? Many SJs I know are kind of dismissive of it...

I don't ever really need to disclose my feelings and whatever. Usually I have a clear picture of how I feel in my head that is often difficult to put into words. It just sounds better in my brain. :/ Why do I have an interest in MBTI? TBH, I'm really not sure. It's just... interesting.

 

[NewEra]

Do you feel like it's helpful to have anonymous people to talk to about that sort of thing, or is it more as a way to educate them better?

Both factors are at play. I want to tell people about myself and what I think is important but I don't feel comfortable saying it face-to-face to someone or online to someone I know well. So the anonymity helps, but I also want to tell people online certain things that are normally perceived to be true are not necessarily always true (education).

Is the lack of talking about how you feel have more to do with how you effectively process things, or is it a fear of vulnerability/people's reaction to what you say?

I don't want to use it as an excuse, but it's honestly not in my nature to reveal that much about myself, even to the ones close to me. I just don't feel comfortable doing it. I don't know why, I guess maybe I see it as a vulnerability to disclose too much about yourself.

How is the internet different for you from talking to people in real life?

Anonymity is the primary difference.

 

[Fidelia]

Today I was going through some old books and happened upon Men Are From Mars... Now, I'm don't necessarily believe that the differences he mentions are cut across male/female lines, so much as thinker/feeler ones.

One thing he says is that the more a man has a chance to listen to someone and be appreciated for the help they are providing by just listening, the more likely it is for him to open up.

1) Do you think this is true for thinker/feeler interactions?

2) Given the fact that you don't by nature open up a lot even to those close to you, do you think that the approach of your loved ones in this way would make a difference (no pressure, appreciation for listening, not expecting more...)

3) If you knew that your privacy regarding your thoughts, feelings, or decision making processes was harming a close relationship, would it be worth the risk to change or is it something that the other person just needs to come to terms with?

 

[EJCC]

Today I was going through some old books and happened upon Men Are From Mars... Now, I'm don't necessarily believe that the differences he mentions are cut across male/female lines, so much as thinker/feeler ones.

Hard to say. I've read some books about gender differences that are very accurate, even with me, a T female.

One thing he says is that the more a man has a chance to listen to someone and be appreciated for the help they are providing by just listening, the more likely it is for him to open up.

1) Do you think this is true for thinker/feeler interactions?

Yes. Yes, I do. If someone opens up to me, I feel like that's an opportunity to reciprocate, and open up myself. (I may have mentioned this earlier in the thread, even. Can't remember.)

2) Given the fact that you don't by nature open up a lot even to those close to you, do you think that the approach of your loved ones in this way would make a difference (no pressure, appreciation for listening, not expecting more...)

Well, if I knew that people were doing that to me, I'd feel like I was being manipulated. But if you hid it well, there wouldn't be a problem.

3) If you knew that your privacy regarding your thoughts, feelings, or decision making processes was harming a close relationship, would it be worth the risk to change or is it something that the other person just needs to come to terms with?

Well, there would have to be a compromise. I'd like to keep SOME things private. I'd rather not go around sharing my deepest feelings left and right. But if I knew that it was hurting the relationship, I would discuss it with the person, and see what we could work out, and I would dedicate myself to fixing it. It would be worth it to try, I think.


Random anecdote: I was talking to a group of three friends (one ESFJ, one IxxJ, one IxxP, all female), and I mentioned in passing that the movie that we had just gone to see had kind of made me sad. They didn't feel the same way, but when I opened up a little bit, they didn't really respond at all. There was a long, awkward silence. This happens to me fairly often, and I think it's part of the reason why I don't really like opening up to people. It's because the response is awkward. (Important to note that I said PART of the reason. Mostly, it's other things that we've talked about earlier.)

 

[Cimarron]

3) If you knew that your privacy regarding your thoughts, feelings, or decision making processes was harming a close relationship, would it be worth the risk to change or is it something that the other person just needs to come to terms with?

This scenario sounds especially tough, and by that, I mean I'd feel torn. When problems start showing themselves, I may realize that I've "gone too far," and realize that I'll have to push myself to change something. Have to take a risk. I'd be apprehensive about it, but for important relationships, I would certainly try.

Now, once I've tried undoing the privacy to help the relationship, after I've taken some small step, I may stop and hope that will be enough, hope my efforts are noticed and appreciated. Every step of the way, when I have to give another inch, I would want to see "results," in a sense. I don't want to feel that I'm doing this for nothing.

 

[NewEra]

1) Do you think this is true for thinker/feeler interactions?

Yeah, probably. Not sure about the Feelers but it's fairly true for me as a Thinker.

2) Given the fact that you don't by nature open up a lot even to those close to you, do you think that the approach of your loved ones in this way would make a difference (no pressure, appreciation for listening, not expecting more...)

Yes, no doubt about it. A big yes, it would make me more comfortable.

3) If you knew that your privacy regarding your thoughts, feelings, or decision making processes was harming a close relationship, would it be worth the risk to change or is it something that the other person just needs to come to terms with?

It'd be worth changing it, if the person was close to me. Otherwise I would not care as much.

 

[FallaciaSonata]

1) Do you think this is true for thinker/feeler interactions?
For the most part, yes. At least for me, as a T, anyway. Although, even in a situation like that, I wouldn't open up unless I deemed it necessary. (i.e. It would benefit the other person somehow, without compromising my personal security, etc.)

2) Given the fact that you don't by nature open up a lot even to those close to you, do you think that the approach of your loved ones in this way would make a difference (no pressure, appreciation for listening, not expecting more...)
With loved ones, the same applies. I don't open up unless they need me to. (which I wouldn't notice unless they explicitly said "I need your opinion on such and such", etc)

3) If you knew that your privacy regarding your thoughts, feelings, or decision making processes was harming a close relationship, would it be worth the risk to change or is it something that the other person just needs to come to terms with?
Depends on the person. With a blood relative, such as my sister or my mom, etc, I would say they just need to deal with it. They will still love me if I don't change. (Although this depends on the degree of damage that is being dealt, in this case you weren't super-specific. Just in general, I guess.) If it was....let's say a love interest, I would bend over backwards in a heartbeat if they were important enough to me.




Yeah, I've been ghosting on the forum for a bit. Haven't had a ton of time lately, but this thread is quite intriguing. Especially the NF bit. Incredibly useful information. I vote that fidelia makes threads more often. ; )

 

[Fidelia]

Thank you! All of you have been most obliging and patient. I'm glad that you have chosen to join in!

 

[browneyes94]

Under what circumstances do people see your real feelings? Is there anyone who truly knows you? How do you differentiate between your inner circle and your aquaintances in what you would share? What makes it so uncomfortable to be explicit with how you feel?

Also, do you tend to discuss pros and cons with a person or just mentally make a (mostly unchangeable) decision of what route you plan to take? If it's the second one, on what do you base your choice and why do you feel discussion would be uncomfortable/unnecessary?

Under what circumstances do people see your real feelings?
They will see my real feelings once i feel that they will accept it and not shun me, or find me 'weird'.

Is there anyone who truly knows you?
Yes, there is someone who truly knows me. She's an INTP, we used to study in primary school together, so i've known her since i was 7? but we only got to know each other well in 2006. She lives far away from me, we go to different schools now, so we see each other like, twice a year? We keep in touch by online chat, or telephone.
Sometimes i find it rather amazing. I still can talk to her like as if she knows all my school mates (she's the one i gossip about them to, so no one will eventually find out ), We have our inside jokes which no one would understand And she's the only person in the world who knows i like to listen to game themes/music, and agrees with me that it's nice.
Sometimes we debate issues for fun, she's the one who starts them. I think some of our debates have caused us to stop talking for a day or two, HAHA.
(She has taught me that sometimes conflict can't be avoided, and it's difficult for an ISTJ, since i avoid conflict at all costs :/ )
I think sometimes she knows me better than i know myself.

How do you differentiate between your inner circle and your aquaintances in what you would share?
Aquaintances: They wouldn't know much about me at all. They'd probably know where i live, what subjects in school i like/dislike, general stuff. These kind of people would probably be my lab partner in biology class. yeah. we talk but we don't share feelings.
Inner circle: In school my inner circle are mostly made of girls, so we'd talk about clothes, how this guy's cute and all. (Yes, you have to be in my inner circle to know which guy in school i find cute ) Some of them dont even know who my crush is, because i dont trust them yet. I only have 2 girls whom i trust in school. :/ But the inner circle would defenitely see the interesting/weird/funny/crazy side of me And enjoy it. HAHA

What makes it so uncomfortable to be explicit with how you feel?
I'm an ISTJ and an Enneagram 6, i'm a paranoid person. I care about what people think of me, and i like it when people like me. Need i say more? I prefer to know people well first, then i'd be comfortable to let them get to know me

Also, do you tend to discuss pros and cons with a person or just mentally make a (mostly unchangeable) decision of what route you plan to take?
I think i would discuss the pros and cons with a person. I'd prefer it if we both came to a mutual agreement.

Shucks that was long. Heh. I hope i helped yeah

 

[Fidelia]

Excellent! Thank you for adding your thoughts.

 

[Max]

Under what circumstances do people see your real feelings? Is there anyone who truly knows you?

I think pretty much never. Even with the person who's closest to me, my roommate, I still feel totally awkward when trying to open up to him in that way.

How do you differentiate between your inner circle and your aquaintances in what you would share?

Pretty much everyone is an acquaintance to me, I don't really have any close friends. I mean, I've got the people I'd like to be close with, but I just don't get the same thing from them. There's little that upsets me more than this. I have a very hard time getting close with people.

What makes it so uncomfortable to be explicit with how you feel?

I'd think if I knew why, I'd be able to figure out some way to solve the problem, but I don't, so it just continues to be a problem that I just have to live with.

And sometimes I exaggerate my emotions for comedic purposes.

I totally relate to this. Hah... I love whenever you say something and I think to myself, Hey, I do that too!

The instinctual reaction of: "GAH EMOTIONS SCARY AWKWARD NO NO NO RUN AWAY!" Emphasis on the word "awkward".
Revealing my true, hidden, very personal feelings (when they're negative) makes me feel small, weak and vulnerable. I hate hate HATE feeling like that. I want to be the strong one, not the weak one! (And I don't mean to offend with that statement - I hold that standard PRIMARILY to myself, and if I hold it towards others, it's subconscious.)

I never really thought of it that way, but that does sound like it would be a reason behind not wanting to express those feelings. For me, I never even thought of it as making me feel vulnerable or anything else you said, I just never even knew what to think. When it's a time that I should probably be expressing how I feel about something, there's often just a long period of silence out of me because I just don't know what to do or say.

1. Have you considered that others don't like the feeling of being "the weak one" all the time. They want to feel that they have something worthwhile to offer you and that you might turn to them if you ever needed comfort.

I don't think it necessarily has to be a case of "the strong one" and "the weak one" every time, just that individually, we want to be strong as opposed to weak. Get what I'm trying to say?

5. Do you like the feeling of people relying on you when they are at a low point or need help with something, or do you find it an obligation?

Depends on who it is and what the situation is. I generally don't like to hear anything extremely negative or anything with a massive amount of complaining. Hmm, this is really a tough one. I may have to think more about this and get back to it.

 

[EJCC]

I totally relate to this. Hah... I love whenever you say something and I think to myself, Hey, I do that too!

The feeling is mutual

I never really thought of it that way, but that does sound like it would be a reason behind not wanting to express those feelings. For me, I never even thought of it as making me feel vulnerable or anything else you said, I just never even knew what to think. When it's a time that I should probably be expressing how I feel about something, there's often just a long period of silence out of me because I just don't know what to do or say.

Interesting. For me, when I encounter that sort of situation, where I'm expected to open up and I just sit there, that's immediately followed by guilt, e.g. "I should be doing something right now! Why can't I figure out what to do???" And that's when I want to run away, from it being awkward. So maybe it's more embarrassment than vulnerability - mostly when I'm responding to someone else's emotions. With my own, though - THAT'S where the whole vulnerability thing comes in. For me, anyways.

I wonder how many of these differences have to do with gender...

 

[Sam Spade]

Only my girlfriend and mother really see my true feelings. A lot of times my true feelings shock friends of mine so I tend to keep them hidden (I was once told that the sight of me crying would destroy someone's worldview).

Right now my ESTj girlfriend and my best friend from high school (INTP) are the only people who truly know me.

 

[sui generis]

Bumping up a hella old thread. I was looking through the "Guardhouse Classics" thread and this one inspired me. Also, I am procrastinating.

A lot of times my true feelings shock friends of mine so I tend to keep them hidden (I was once told that the sight of me crying would destroy someone's worldview).

This is the reason that, while I'm honest with everyone, I'm only open about my emotions to my inner circle. I know there are people who see me as... almost infallibly confident and strong, and, well, I'm only human. :steam:

I'm completely open with my feelings to my inner circle of friends and lovers- about five people in total. Being open with my feelings was *definitely* a learned process for me- it doesn't come naturally, but it is worth it to me because of the emotional intimacy it creates, and also because I need to think out loud to *someone*.



Under what circumstances do people see your real feelings?
Most people don't get to unless I am truly in crisis and can't summon up the energy to keep myself stoic-ish. Friends get to see a little more, and the inner circle gets to see pretty much everything eventually.

How do you differentiate between your inner circle and your aquaintances in what you would share?
I think it depends on what it is that I'm sharing. If it's something that still feel scary and vulnerable and complicated, I'm only going to share it with members of my inner circle. If it's something that's not vulnerable or scary, I'm more likely to share it with my friends at large.

Or are you asking how someone gets *into* my inner circle? I think it's a combination of my having known them for a long time and having gone through lots of shit with them, and a general understanding that we're on the same team and that there's no judgment or bullshit in our relationship. I have to have a lot of respect for them, for our relationship, and I have to trust their discretion.

What makes it so uncomfortable to be explicit with how you feel?
Hmm. I think there is a certain level of fear of being judged, which doesn't exist when I'm talking with my inner circle. Other than them, though, I kind of think that my feelings are a vulnerable, private thing that just aren't the world's business.

Also, do you tend to discuss pros and cons with a person or just mentally make a (mostly unchangeable) decision of what route you plan to take?
Most of the time I'll process the whole situation with a loved one, and if I'm going to make an actual pros-and-cons list, I'll do it by myself, mainly just because it helps me to see things in writing on a list.