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  1. #91
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    It really is sort of surprising how much he listens. I remember I once asked him why he was asking ME about all the stuff in his life. He replied, "I know you're honest" At the time, I didn't really get that as being that important to an ESTJ. I guess it's not until talking to you that maybe I realize that he does hold me in high esteem. Aww...I'm touched!
    That's so sweet!!! I'm glad I could help out.
    Yeah, you know that an ESTJ respects you when they ask you for advice like that. (But isn't that true with most types?) I really relate, because I also respect honesty in people. (Sometimes I take constructive criticism very personally, but I'm learning slowly that it's good for me in the long run )
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



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  2. #92
    Rainy Day Woman MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    you know that an ESTJ respects you when they ask you for advice like that. (But isn't that true with most types?)
    I've found some F's will ask you for advice on their relationship issues/life decisions maybe...five minutes after introduction? So, I've found that people asking for advice isn't indicative of how strong the bond between me and advisee is, but it certainly brings you closer together a lot faster!
    ~luck favors the ready~


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  3. #93
    Member INTPatricia's Avatar
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    Does an ESTJ want his true feelings "seen"? Would he rather be understood 'as needed'?

  4. #94
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    I've found some F's will ask you for advice on their relationship issues/life decisions maybe...five minutes after introduction?
    Oh my god! I can't imagine. What a way to live! I'm sure it works for them, but... wow.
    Quote Originally Posted by INTPatricia View Post
    Does an ESTJ want his true feelings "seen"? Would he rather be understood 'as needed'?
    Definitely "as needed". The emotional outburstings that I find to be (or rather, closer to being) okay are the ones that are there as a cry for help/advice/whatever. The ones that just show up because of something petty? THOSE piss me off. I'd rather that all the emotions that I show (well, all the negative ones, anyway) be there for a reason... although I wouldn't want those emotions to be seen by anyone except those who I'm interacting with/asking advice from.
    An example of what I would NOT prefer: I got frustrated with someone in front of a big group of people that I see often throughout each week day. I would have preferred that the (admittedly uncomfortable) interaction be just between the two of us, but... that wasn't how it worked out. So for the rest of the day, from what seemed like everyone who was there, it was "Hey, are you okay?" "What's going on?" or, worst of all, "Hey, is it just me or were you really pissed off just then?"
    RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!!!!!!! Leave me ALONE! :steam:
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  5. #95
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    What do you rate as being petty? For example, I have often found with the people closest to me that what seems at first glance to be about one rather petty incident rankles only because it is one in a series of incidents which indicate a deeper underlying problem. In my experience, the STJs I know take this to be strictly about the petty incident at hand and dismiss it immediately without considering why these things keep coming up. Most people don't really enjoy drama that much and would rather not be emotionally stirred up and held in lower regard than they were by the one they love. It's more a matter of needing the problem at hand fixed. Sometimes the underlying problem doesn't emerge unless the petty problem is voiced. Maybe the issue is that the STJ does more of this process in their heads than some types do.

  6. #96
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    What do you rate as being petty? For example, I have often found with the people closest to me that what seems at first glance to be about one rather petty incident rankles only because it is one in a series of incidents which indicate a deeper underlying problem. In my experience, the STJs I know take this to be strictly about the petty incident at hand and dismiss it immediately without considering why these things keep coming up. Most people don't really enjoy drama that much and would rather not be emotionally stirred up and held in lower regard than they were by the one they love. It's more a matter of needing the problem at hand fixed. Sometimes the underlying problem doesn't emerge unless the petty problem is voiced. Maybe the issue is that the STJ does more of this process in their heads than some types do.
    For me, it's that I fail at diagnosing the true problem. Here's the thought process: "Oh god, this sucks... wait, this isn't a big deal. Why am I getting emotional about this?? It's not that time of the month... I've been sleeping long enough every night for the past few days... Damn it!! Why can't I figure this out???" Then I obsess about it for a while and latch on to whatever reason makes more sense at the time (which might not always be correct).
    Of course, if someone I really trust (who reads me well - usually I'd go to an NF for this, but other types might work too) is nearby, I might ask them what they think. But this isn't always the case.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  7. #97
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Yes! I think that in failing to diagnose the real problem, many STJs dismiss it as being the other person's problem (or an imagined problem) and resent them for making the STJ feel bad. Would it help if the other person tried to figure out the underlying problem and present that first instead of registering the "petty" problem at all?

  8. #98
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Yes! I think that in failing to diagnose the real problem, many STJs dismiss it as being the other person's problem (or an imagined problem) and resent them for making the STJ feel bad. Would it help if the other person tried to figure out the underlying problem and present that first instead of registering the "petty" problem at all?
    Oh, sorry. I wasn't really thinking of interpersonal problems specifically - just any sort of problem that would make your subconscious preoccupied. (could be stress, e.g.) I don't usually blame others, though - I blame myself for reacting too strongly to the others. I absolutely NEVER think "X person made me act this way! My reaction is entirely their fault!" I might blame them for the situation, but not for my reaction. I don't do that.
    I think that what would help most is for people who aren't close to the STJ to just pretend like nothing happened. The people close to them can try to figure it out, though. That would actually be pretty helpful.

    Sorry if I'm hogging the questions...
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  9. #99
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Keep answering! The others will jump in if they'd like to.

    I think more undefined problems like stress are often experienced in the way you describe and if no answer has been found, people often turn to someone who might have a stab at an accurate guess. For example, when I quit my job I was very at peace with my decision. I was worried that they would not find a qualified person to fill it, because qualified people with the right focus of skills willing to go to that location in that timeframe would make up far less that 1% of people searching for a job. On the day where it was announced, I was pleased that they had found a qualified person to replace me and carry on something that I had put a lot of work into. On the drive home several hours later, I found myself crying (I very rarely EVER cry) and it kind of scared me more because I couldn't figure out why. After talking with my mum I realized that it was partially that it really made it final and it did say that maybe I wasn't irreplaceable after all.

    With interpersonal problems, do you think that your gender has anything to do with your tendancy not to blame the other person or is it just you as an individual? With the other STJs I know (all of whom are male), each one resents it when someone brings something up (especially the truer it is) mostly because it made them feel like a bad person which they know they're not (maybe it's a reaction to feelings of vulnerability?).

    You've said that you are definitely more comfortable with the role of being needed if emotions are involved (giving help/advice/comfort etc). What happens if there is a legitimate problem that needs to be straightened out between you and someone you love where you cannot fit into that role because the situation calls for more vulnerability on your part? Would there be anyone you could do that with? Would it happen naturally or be very difficult and only once in a long while?

  10. #100
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I think more undefined problems like stress are often experienced in the way you describe and if no answer has been found, people often turn to someone who might have a stab at an accurate guess.
    This leads me to another thing I was going to say relating to stress. There have been certain things in my life that have been monumental and involved waiting for deadlines, to hear results. I thought that I had done a good job of shoving it out of my mind for a while, but as it got closer and closer to the deadline, I started getting terrible, stabbing chest pain. I had read about physical manifestations of stress happening with ESTJs, but I had always imagined that as being exaggerated, and not so real as it was. Do you think this has to do with bottling things up? (I'm guessing yes.)

    For example, when I quit my job I was very at peace with my decision. I was worried that they would not find a qualified person to fill it, because qualified people with the right focus of skills willing to go to that location in that timeframe would make up far less that 1% of people searching for a job. On the day where it was announced, I was pleased that they had found a qualified person to replace me and carry on something that I had put a lot of work into. On the drive home several hours later, I found myself crying (I very rarely EVER cry) and it kind of scared me more because I couldn't figure out why. After talking with my mum I realized that it was partially that it really made it final and it did say that maybe I wasn't irreplaceable after all.
    I'm sorry. That sounds rough. Thanks for bringing that up. It's good when things remind a person that it's not all just you (and by you, I mean me, if you know what I mean)

    With interpersonal problems, do you think that your gender has anything to do with your tendancy not to blame the other person or is it just you as an individual? With the other STJs I know (all of whom are male), each one resents it when someone brings something up (especially the truer it is) mostly because it made them feel like a bad person which they know they're not (maybe it's a reaction to feelings of vulnerability?).
    I think that's a different situation, that you're talking about. When people bring up mistakes that I've made, or things like that, I can feel like I'm being attacked, and get very defensive, entirely because it makes me feel like a bad person. So... I guess I do that too? Was that the sort of situation you were thinking of?

    You've said that you are definitely more comfortable with the role of being needed if emotions are involved (giving help/advice/comfort etc). What happens if there is a legitimate problem that needs to be straightened out between you and someone you love where you cannot fit into that role because the situation calls for more vulnerability on your part? Would there be anyone you could do that with? Would it happen naturally or be very difficult and only once in a long while?
    Hm... I might need an example of this.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

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