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  1. #11
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Wow! That really seems to go with the STJs I know (my dad, as well as an(ex)boyfriend I dated five years.)
    That's actually a really cool analogy. I like it.

    As I'm digging deeper into Introverted Feeling, I'm realizing the core of the issue, and I've elaborated on it actually often in these forums. I use Te often to compare my capability and competence to other people. In doing so, I've attached myself to my perceptions of other people's views of me. Introverted Feeling is supposed to allow me to realize my own personal identity that gives me the ability to disregard other people's opinions unless it is necessary for a Te goal.

    As I explained in Ventrilo, it's more of that I realized that Si is our dominant function to constantly remind us of what's worked for us personally in the past. Te then takes the information and transforms it into goals. The problem comes when Si gives you goals to pursue that do not align with artificial goals Te has set in the present. This is where Fi comes into play giving us an identity that allows us to recognize the Si goal as more important than the current Te obligations.

    As a personal example, Si tells me that I want to spend a great deal of time sitting at home reading Star Wars books or playing computer games. That's what I enjoy, and I want to do that on my own time...only. However, I've told myself that there is something wrong with me if I spend too much time at home, and not enough time out in the world, either socializing, exercising, or working. The perceived bad result is that I'll either get fat, not form meaningful relationships or become incapable of having a high income job. That's where Te has stepped in, minimized my level of personal time, and devoted the majority of my time to failed attempts at exercising and socializing along with A LOT of time spent worrying about college.

    The role that introverted feeling plays I'm assuming is that it tells me that I reserve the right to look at the demands from the external world, choose the minimum requirements that I deem necessary to adhere to, and then devote my remaining time to personal interests. It also allows me to stop worrying what other people might perceive of me. It's easier said than done and requires completely changing a mindset while keeping an old mindset. It's like, shifting around a mindset that you want in order to align with the demands from the world.

    I'm still working on it.


  2. #12
    Supreme Allied Commander Take Five's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    That's actually a really cool analogy. I like it.

    As I'm digging deeper into Introverted Feeling, I'm realizing the core of the issue, and I've elaborated on it actually often in these forums. I use Te often to compare my capability and competence to other people. In doing so, I've attached myself to my perceptions of other people's views of me. Introverted Feeling is supposed to allow me to realize my own personal identity that gives me the ability to disregard other people's opinions unless it is necessary for a Te goal.

    As I explained in Ventrilo, it's more of that I realized that Si is our dominant function to constantly remind us of what's worked for us personally in the past. Te then takes the information and transforms it into goals. The problem comes when Si gives you goals to pursue that do not align with artificial goals Te has set in the present. This is where Fi comes into play giving us an identity that allows us to recognize the Si goal as more important than the current Te obligations.

    As a personal example, Si tells me that I want to spend a great deal of time sitting at home reading Star Wars books or playing computer games. That's what I enjoy, and I want to do that on my own time...only. However, I've told myself that there is something wrong with me if I spend too much time at home, and not enough time out in the world, either socializing, exercising, or working. The perceived bad result is that I'll either get fat, not form meaningful relationships or become incapable of having a high income job. That's where Te has stepped in, minimized my level of personal time, and devoted the majority of my time to failed attempts at exercising and socializing along with A LOT of time spent worrying about college.

    The role that introverted feeling plays I'm assuming is that it tells me that I reserve the right to look at the demands from the external world, choose the minimum requirements that I deem necessary to adhere to, and then devote my remaining time to personal interests. It also allows me to stop worrying what other people might perceive of me. It's easier said than done and requires completely changing a mindset while keeping an old mindset. It's like, shifting around a mindset that you want in order to align with the demands from the world.

    I'm still working on it.
    Have you tried making a schedule that balances these things so that there is time for what you need?
    Also-I used to care a lot what people thought of me, and to some extent I still do. Embarassment was one of my biggest fears. The way I got over it? I forced myself into potentially embarassing/awkward/unpopular situations. You will get stomped on sometimes, but everybody takes a beating at one time or another. I also like to keep busy because it soaks up the time I would spend caring what people think.
    Johari Nohari

    "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. "--Niccolo Machiavelli

  3. #13
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    I actually use my Fi to motivate myself, and it helps me achieve the things I feel are important. It almost gives me a sense of purpose, and I sort of feed off my Fi to push myself and do successful things.

  4. #14
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Is embarassment a big thing for ISTJs? What embarrasses you? Is it not looking competent, having your opinion discounted or....? That's interesting to me because INFJs are very easily embarrassed and also care about what people think of them, but I think with a slightly different focus.

  5. #15
    That chalkboard guy Matthew_Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Is embarassment a big thing for ISTJs? What embarrasses you? Is it not looking competent, having your opinion discounted or....? That's interesting to me because INFJs are very easily embarrassed and also care about what people think of them, but I think with a slightly different focus.
    I'd say not feeling competent would be the closest thing to it. ISTJs hold themselves to high standards. When we don't make those standards, it's embarrassing. And when we miss other people's standards (which are usually lower than ours) the embarrassment multiplies exponentially.

    On a side note, never, EVER, remind an ISTJ what they've done wrong. We know when we've slipped up, and we're working on it. As I mentioned previously, we have high standards. There's no need at all to be reminded of what we already know.
    If a deaf INFP falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

  6. #16
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Never? What if they are not aware of how it impacts other people? What if there are options that they have not considered that might be more effective strategies?

    What makes them not feel competent? Why are they so hard on themselves? Should you never mention anything negative? How can you deal with conflict?

    Also what happens when you do not feel competent at something? Do you avoid that area? Try to change it?

  7. #17
    Senior Member NewEra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew_Z View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Is embarassment a big thing for ISTJs? What embarrasses you? Is it not looking competent, having your opinion discounted or....? That's interesting to me because INFJs are very easily embarrassed and also care about what people think of them, but I think with a slightly different focus.
    I'd say not feeling competent would be the closest thing to it. ISTJs hold themselves to high standards. When we don't make those standards, it's embarrassing.
    BINGO.

    fidelia - Having my opinion discounted doesn't make me embarrassed, it just makes me... annoyed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew_Z View Post
    On a side note, never, EVER, remind an ISTJ what they've done wrong. We know when we've slipped up, and we're working on it. As I mentioned previously, we have high standards. There's no need at all to be reminded of what we already know.
    Personally, I hate this too but I'm so used to it now in my life, I've been told what I do wrong a lot more than what I do right. It's gotten to the point now where I just tune out the stuff I did wrong.

  8. #18
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Does have someone telling you what you do right carry weight for you, or only if it is coming from someone you have to answer to (eg your boss)?

    Chosen One - Why does it annoy you when you have your opinion discounted? (obviously most people will feel annoyance, but I think for different reasons...)

    Matthew Z - You talked about the embarrassment being multiplied exponentially when you don't meet someone else's standards (which are usually lower than your own). Would that refer more to the way a job is done (as in objective and quantifiable), or could it extend to how you handled something interpersonally etc?

  9. #19
    That chalkboard guy Matthew_Z's Avatar
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    In hindsight(always 20/20), I'm seeing that "never, EVER" may not have been the best choice of words. Once we get your point that we've done something we shouldn't have, we got the point. After that point, it's important to only minimally refer back to our mistake. In confrontation of any sort with an ISTJ, the focus should be on how we can improve.

    The greater idea behind the "never, EVER" was about teasing an ISTJ about their mistakes. That's a no. Just. Don't. Do. It. ISTJ shortcomings should only be mentioned when trying to improve in some area.

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Matthew Z - You talked about the embarrassment being multiplied exponentially when you don't meet someone else's standards (which are usually lower than your own). Would that refer more to the way a job is done (as in objective and quantifiable), or could it extend to how you handled something interpersonally etc?
    As I've said before, xSTJs, unlike other types, don't mysteriously change their view of things between work and relationships. (in the broader sense of relationships, not just romantic ones) So it would refer to both, actually.
    If a deaf INFP falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

  10. #20
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    Being told how to do something RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE of me trying to figure out how to do it annoying the living crap out of me. At work, I might be sitting there taking in information, categorizing it with Si, and then formulating a plan with Te, but all of this is happening in my head, and other people don't see it, so when the 30 seconds of silence happens, they jump in and give me instructions. It's fucking annoying.

    I agree, embarrassment for me comes in being seen as incompetent. That's the ultimate embarrassment for me. My logic is my own, I base my life around it, so when it fails, and the public sees it, I instantly just want to hide in a corner and cry.

    Having my opinion discounted alone does nothing. What matters is who discounted it and for what reasons. Did they discount my opinion purely out of emotional spite and neglect a larger issue? That becomes an issue for me.

    In regards to embarrassment when I don't meet someone else's standards, it's more of that I hold myself to higher standards when handling someone else's property. That only extends to impersonal handlings. When doing something for someone else puts me into personal situations, I increase my level of objectivity greatly.


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