[ESTJ] Ask an ESTJ!

[Fidelia]

Thanks EJCC. I can understand that our friends bring out slightly different sides of us and that we also choose conversation appropriate to the occasion. However, I wouldn't expect that those kinds of behavioural changes would be that profound. (Attitudes, behaviour, treatment of others, kindness, habits etc). My beef was not only in that last four months. I (and others) noticed significant changes in behaviour depending on the company he was around. It was just that at that time he acted consistently most of the time with some lapses as opposed to inconsistently for most of the time later on with occasional good lapses. I knew that he had behaved quite differently at different junctures in his life as well and that's what puzzled me.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

What other types do that? I feel like, of all the types, NTs are the least likely to do that - you guys are so independent of peer pressure, especially compared to SJs - but it's one of those things that, you know, you feel like everyone does, until someone tells you that it's weird.


I wish I could say more about how we make decisions, but it's one of those things that's so... I dunno. I'm not sure if I spend enough time in my own head to analyze it, you know? I deal with events when they happen, and I don't think about my decision-making process analytically. Even though I've done (comparatively speaking) a lot of introspection because of my MBTI obsession, that seems a bit too deep for me (I dunno if I'm capable of it...). Maybe I'll get back to you on that one?

I know that personally, I use Fe and can relate to what you said before in the sense that around a lot of different people, I will try to maintain a harmony. This feels "unnatural" for me (i.e. I have to concentrate to do this). I'm used to it as I have gotten older. I mean, not everyone can handle a logical statement/opinion without it illiciting strong emotional responses. And that's okay. But because I really am censoring those thoughts that would prove 'disruptive' or 'ill-received' by everyone. (I suppose this could be considered "being polite"? ) It takes a lot of energy. I don't change ME but I definitely think before I speak. Ironically, it has brought me closer to many people. Go fig.

I was SO looking forward to hearing an answer on that last question! But yes. Enigmatic indeed. See?

 

[EJCC]

^ Yep, enigmatic even to ourselves.

... you know, on second thought, maybe if you phrased the question a bit more specifically? Like, maybe if you gave a specific example of an event that you personally would want to know how ESTJs handle (in decision-making)? I'll give it a shot.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

Hmmm...let me think about that EJCC. I will come back with specifics.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

Okay. How about this situation:

You owe a friend a favor because they did one for you. However, you aren't keen on repaying this favor because you aren't on the best terms with this person now. What do you do?

 

[T-Guy]

Okay. How about this situation:

You owe a friend a favor because they did one for you. However, you aren't keen on repaying this favor because you aren't on the best terms with this person now. What do you do?

If the person asks to return the favour, then I will return the favour. If I don't see the person or if the person never asks to return the favour, then I will not return the favour.

 

[EJCC]

Okay. How about this situation:

You owe a friend a favor because they did one for you. However, you aren't keen on repaying this favor because you aren't on the best terms with this person now. What do you do?

If I saw the opportunity to help them or something like that, I'd do it, to return the favor. But only then would I do it. Out of sight, out of mind, pretty much.

 

[EJCC]

Wow, just realized that I didn't help you much with that last post... whoops. I guess I'll give you an example of my thought process in a particularly uncomfortable interpersonal decision:

So, one of my friends (who was the only "best friend" I ever had; we were besties for our entire lives up until this point) decided to quit being my friend about four years ago, for no reason that I could figure out at the time. (I learned later that her father was suicidal, and that she was in a fragile emotional state because of that. It was no fault of mine.) So, to cut off the friendship for good, she wrote me a series of emails that were so scathing and horrible that I actually cried. I had to be around her every day, and every day she would pretend like I wasn't there. The group that I spent the most time with were all friends with her still, and failed to comprehend the meanness of what she had done. It was frustrating.
So, my thought process:

Sensible Me: I can't do this anymore. It just doesn't work. Something needs to get done.
Frustrated Me: But there's nothing I can do! The only way this'll make sense is if she apologizes.
SM: Well, I've been waiting for her to apologize for months now, and I don't think it's going to happen.
FM: So, the other option is... that I apologize instead? But I didn't do anything wrong!! This isn't even remotely fair! It's dishonest! RRGH!
SM: Well, too bad. At this point, it hardly matters HOW this gets solved, as long as it IS solved. This has gone on too long!
FM: ...Dammit! This sucks! But I'll do it. It really DOES need to be done.

So... I apologized. We were never really friends again after that, but at least we were on speaking terms.

Dunno if that's a good example or not, but it's pretty much exactly what I was thinking at the time.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

Yes. That helps. Thank you for sharing a real world example.

I had to laugh a little bit because it's a very logical way of thinking through a problem and I've found myself with the same SM/FM internal dialogue.

 

[EJCC]

I've gotta say, though... that first example is much more common than the second example, in terms of how quickly a decision is made. The reason why I had such a back-and-forth in my head was because I was scared to talk to her, and I was feelin' some righteous indignation. When there's no emotional reason for me NOT to do something, the thought process is practically not there. Here's an example:

A friend was talking to me, while we were in a grocery store, about how when she was going to get shrimp, the ones she saw there were cooked - i.e. pink, and white on the inside. She asked where the raw shrimp were, and the man who worked the counter said "These ARE raw." My friend said "Don't you see how they're pink on the outside and white in the middle? Raw shrimp are grey!" And the guy said "Well, they're raw, because they looked like that in the back when I got 'em out."

After she told me about that, I didn't think in words, per se, but these ideas/facts were rushing through my head:
- This man is an imbecile!
- People who work at the meat counter at the grocery store should know what they're talking about!
- It's not right!
- He needs to get reported, so this can be fixed.
So, I said to my mom, "That's horrible. You need to talk to the manager." And... she didn't. She SAID she'd write a letter, but I doubt she did. Those INFJs.... :roll:

Since I'm an extrovert, I wasn't as aware of all those thoughts as an introvert might be. They just surged up as soon as she finished telling the story - almost like an emotion. Hard to explain... hope it makes sense.

Do you relate, T-Guy and/or WickedQueen?

 

[INTJ123]

What would make you fart on your SO? I mean literally walk over sit on their lap and fart. I have observed an estj do this on multiple occasions and I think it has something to do with expressing their comfort? or maybe just marking their territory? lol i dunno...

 

[runvardh]

What would make you fart on your SO? I mean literally walk over sit on their lap and fart. I have observed an estj do this on multiple occasions and I think it has something to do with expressing their comfort? or maybe just marking their territory? lol i dunno...

Are they rednecks?

 

[EJCC]

^ Yeah, that probably has something to do with it. Either that, or just how they were raised. See, where I'm from, that's completely inappropriate (since NOBODY does that - plus, it's just gross), and since ESTJs like to stick to social norms (usually), it makes me think that wherever this person comes from is somewhere that finds... farting on somebody's lap... acceptable. (It might ALSO have to do with him being a man, but that's a shot in the dark.)

 

[INTJ123]

^ Yeah, that probably has something to do with it. Either that, or just how they were raised. See, where I'm from, that's completely inappropriate (since NOBODY does that - plus, it's just gross), and since ESTJs like to stick to social norms (usually), it makes me think that wherever this person comes from is somewhere that finds... farting on somebody's lap... acceptable. (It might ALSO have to do with him being a man, but that's a shot in the dark.)

well his SO was not particularly thrilled about it, and he's Japan born raised in US not a redneck at all. He holds a high executive position in his company, he's pretty intelligent too, however when he does this it makes him seem immature and insecure. It's just really funny cause on the outside you wouldn't expect someone like him to be like that but he is.

 

[WickedQueen]

hahaha... maybe he has some illness that caused him unable to control his farting behaviour...


.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

What would make you fart on your SO? I mean literally walk over sit on their lap and fart. I have observed an estj do this on multiple occasions and I think it has something to do with expressing their comfort? or maybe just marking their territory? lol i dunno...

I think this is a case where typology can be thrown out the window.

 

[Fidelia]

Yup, flatulation is atypeical!

 

[runvardh]

^ Yeah, that probably has something to do with it. Either that, or just how they were raised. See, where I'm from, that's completely inappropriate (since NOBODY does that - plus, it's just gross), and since ESTJs like to stick to social norms (usually), it makes me think that wherever this person comes from is somewhere that finds... farting on somebody's lap... acceptable. (It might ALSO have to do with him being a man, but that's a shot in the dark.)

No, I only know two guys who do that. One is my step-dad's brother and he is a beautiful example of "trailer trash". The other is quite the smooth talker and bullshiter, but I don't know where he started from. The rest of the guys I know decently either hold it till the girls are gone or don't make anything of it at all.

well his SO was not particularly thrilled about it, and he's Japan born raised in US not a redneck at all. He holds a high executive position in his company, he's pretty intelligent too, however when he does this it makes him seem immature and insecure. It's just really funny cause on the outside you wouldn't expect someone like him to be like that but he is.

Hen desu yo... Eh, then again, if you watch their game shows...

I think this is a case where typology can be thrown out the window.

Yeah, I think so too.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

Yup, flatulation is atypeical!

very punny, fids.

 

[fill]

Sorry if this comes off as anger- because it is.

For the second time I've gotten into an ESTJ girl, and for the second time, she carries around another guy 'friend' in her pocket, and he does whatever the hell she says, which completely kills any motivation for me to try and get to know her. Example of this? I text her with a question and get a text back from her friend answering it.

It's damn annoying.