[ESTJ] Ask an ESTJ!

[EJCC]

Thanks for all the details - it really helps to have the background information. (I didn't really think he was drunk, but I mentioned that because ESTJs do act bolder when drunk, as so many other people do.)

Even if he is a flirt, the fact that his flirting was so over the top, and that he still has the pig in the car, and that he values your opinion so much, leads me to believe that he likes you. The fact that he freely admitted that the relationship ended leads me to believe that he isn't making a move now because 1. he's still scared, or 2. he's ashamed of his previous actions. It's pretty typically ESTJ to be afraid to make the first move, and the semi-joking-flirting is probably the closest he can come to admitting he likes you. (It might be involuntary, really - most of my flirting is involuntary, but I'm not exactly an expert in good romantic practices.) Plus, there's the fact that he's already in a relationship... which is problematic, since, unless she's okay with the relationship being open (which I doubt, considering what you said about her), you can't make a move on him. Unless you, say, talk to him about the possibility of getting back together (and/or his mixed signals), and see what happens then.

 

[matilda]

Why would an ESTJ go from being really, and I mean really, warm and open one day (flirty, even), to just about blah the very next day, and the days that follow? Is this normal behavior for an ESTJ?

 

[EJCC]

Why would an ESTJ go from being really, and I mean really, warm and open one day (flirty, even), to just about blah the very next day, and the days that follow? Is this normal behavior for an ESTJ?

Wow. Well, I would certainly hope that I'm not like that.

One thing I will say this about ESTJs, to start with: while, on the one hand, we give the impression of "what you see is what you get", there really is more to us than meets the eye, because when we have personal things going on, or when we have a change of attitude about something important, we may not declare it to the world as other types do. In other words, it sounds like something may have happened that caused him to act that way. A personal event, perhaps? A realization of some kind? Either way, we're not exactly known for being so passive-aggressive. We usually frown on that sort of behavior.

What was it that happened, specifically? Do you have any clues as to any circumstances that changed from that one day to the ones that followed?

 

[Giggly]

EJCC, how come you don't smile more?

lol

 

[/DG/]

EJCC, how come you don't smile more?

lol

 

[EJCC]

...


...
...

 

[matilda]

One thing I will say this about ESTJs, to start with: while, on the one hand, we give the impression of "what you see is what you get", there really is more to us than meets the eye, because when we have personal things going on, or when we have a change of attitude about something important, we may not declare it to the world as other types do. In other words, it sounds like something may have happened that caused him to act that way.

Thank you, EJCC, for this.

 

[Virtual ghost]

^^
Well, there's the obvious I vs. E difference. There's the fact that INTJs are sillier around people they know and are more comfortable with, while ESTJs are sillier around people they don't know, in an effort to impress them. (Makes for a lot of head-shaking by the ESTJ once they get to be friends.) When I see an INTJ, though, I mostly see the similarities, both good (e.g. mutual bluntness/honesty), and oddly enough, the similarities are often what bug me most (e.g. the tendency to ignore facts that don't mesh well with our beliefs). One big difference that I've noticed with the INTJs that I know is that they can read people so well - almost at an INFJ level, sometimes - whereas ESTJs are often completely oblivious to other people's personal needs.

Not that your average ESTJ will see all this nuance in an INTJ right away. We'll probably think something along these lines: "Quiet, honest, intelligent, bold, blunt. An interesting person. A little bit intimidating. Hm." But then again, in my experience, when you first encounter an INTJ, you aren't seeing all of them. They have more depth than what's on the surface. (It's the same with ESTJs, really.)

I think ESTJs and INTJs are very compatible in friendships. It's like an ESTJ-INFJ pairing, only without the traditional problems.

I took some time to think about your reply. But the only thing that really stands out here is the word intimidating. Why intimidating ?

Plus I don't see myself in not accepting facts part that much. But my Fi is underdeveloped so I can understand why someone would say what you said.

 

[EJCC]

I took some time to think about your reply. But the only thing that really stands out here is the word intimidating. Why intimidating ?

Well, INTJs can be very quiet and very serious. Quiet, serious people intimidate me when I first meet them. It could also be the air-of-confidence thing, put together with the quietness and the seriousness. It's not quite warm and inviting, you know? Once you get to know an INTJ, they can be very cheery and personable, but otherwise... you get the stone-cold exterior. From my experience.

Plus I don't see myself in not accepting facts part that much. But my Fi is underdeveloped so I can understand why someone would say what you said.

That's not an all-the-time thing. Usually, both ESTJs and INTJs are very accepting of facts. ESTJs especially - you can't convince us of something without factual evidence to back it up. But if we have a deeply held belief that's getting challenged by facts, we might even be resistant to accepting them. But that doesn't happen ALL the time, so I can see how/why you feel that way about it.

 

[EJCC]

So, since there haven't been any questions recently, I'll answer some potential ones (provided by fidelia, paraphrased by me):

1 (by a hypothetical N):
"Hi EJCC! I've been having a lot of issues with my ESTJ boss. Whenever I tell him about problems, he thinks I'm being a whiner - or, on a bad day, he gets offended, and dislikes me even more. How can I help him without sacrificing my image?"

Why thank you for asking, my iNtuitor friend! I would recommend... info sheets. Or, at least, talk like an info sheet. Use evidence! Lots of it! Make it very clear that it's facts your using, and not opinion (even if it is opinion - disguise it well).

2 (by a hypothetical n00b):
"Hello! I'm fairly nerdy and don't know that many ESTJs. I'm interested in learning more! So my question is: what makes ESTJs happy? I usually just see them when they're angry or businesslike. How can I tell that they're happy?"

I'm so glad that you asked - many others would have remained comfortably ignorant instead of working up the courage to ask, so brava! Well, we enjoy chatting with friends. We LOVE to pontificate doh. Generally, whenever we're really energetic and/or excited and/or passionately talking, we're happy. What makes us happiest, though, are the simple things - e.g. good food, good smells, getting something we really needed as a gift ("OMG, thank you! I always wanted a new roll of paper towels!" <-- I am NOT exaggerating here. I react to things like this all the time).

 

[A Schnitzel]

*jumps in thread*

Is this like a blog or something?

Did you just say you enjoy receiving a roll of paper towels as a present?

 

[EJCC]

I dunno. It could be a blog. Maybe it should be?

If I needed paper towels, I would LOVE paper towels! Like I said, we enjoy the simple things Plus, my favorite gifts are the ones that I really need.

Speaking of things that make ESTJs happy, a small anecdote: I'm in awe of my mini-fridge! Got it on CraigsList for $25. It looks horrible, but I cleaned it out with some baking soda and now...

But since you're here... questions?

 

[A Schnitzel]

Yeah I'm thinking it would be a sweet idea for a blog. You can answer questions while talking about your life. Or something like that.

Hell Trinity turned her "what type am I?" thread into a blog.

Question: What's your favourite type of beer to put in that fridge?

 

[EJCC]

Um... something mild/sweet. I don't like beer that much. I'm trying to learn to like it. I'm at that stage where drinking it isn't a lot of fun, but eating things that were cooked in it is one of the most delicious things ever. But if I drank beer, I would stock my fridge with local beer. The area where I live has excellent (so I've heard) local brews.

But mostly I will use my fridge for:
1. caffeinated beverages,
2. leftovers, and
3. hummus. I <3 hummus!

I WOULD request that this be turned into a blog... but
1. I don't know if it is technically a blog, since other ESTJs are invited to participate (not that they do...) and
2. it would be competing with D@v3's blog... which is a BAD idea. My blog would lose. More people would pay attention to and/or use my thread when it's here in the Guardhouse.

 

[A Schnitzel]

You eat hummus by itself?

 

[Fidelia]

I kind of like this format. That way we can still ask questions or suggest topics without sounding like we're horning in on your blog and just need to get our own. I like the everyone can jump in kind of interaction.

Do you have anything else you would like to volunteer to the person who is working for, is a family member of, or is a SO of an ESTJ?

I'm totally with you on the practical presents thing. It's so fun to see how thrilled they get over little things like a great Starfrit can opener they've been needing, or something like that. They'll even tell everyone they know all about it! Food items seem to also go over well I've noticed.

What are ESTJs like about health and fitness? I found mine ate great, didn't really like desserts, and was on and off about the fitness. He liked it though if there was either an eating thing or a fitness thing that he could tell other people about. He got P90X and organized a bunch of people to do it, using a data projector on the gym wall.

What do you look for in your significant others? What attracts you to someone? (Yes, EJCC I know you feel uncomfortable talking about that stuff, but inquring minds really want to know!). Are you friends with or sometimes interested in Thinkers or Feelers more frequently?

What kinds of things make you feel the most squirmy emotionally?

 

[EJCC]

You eat hummus by itself?

NO!!! I eat it with pita bread, or crackers. But I wouldn't put them in the fridge...

Do you have anything else you would like to volunteer to the person who is working for, is a family member of, or is a SO of an ESTJ?

We are direct, the best way to communicate with us is directly, and we appreciate directness. Also, if we get mad, LEAVE US ALONE. For a while, anyways. I can be pretty touchy-feely, but if I'm really angry about something, I just HATE being touched - even if it's, e.g, a sympathetic pat.

What are ESTJs like about health and fitness? I found mine ate great, didn't really like desserts, and was on and off about the fitness. He liked it though if there was either an eating thing or a fitness thing that he could tell other people about. He got P90X and organized a bunch of people to do it, using a data projector on the gym wall.

Generally, we're very good about it. Overweight ESTJs are rare. The ESTJ I know eats well, rides his bike miles and miles every day, goes backpacking, and is built like a runner. I'm not very fit, but that's because I'm in the process of breaking out of the habit of being a couch potato (a habit gained from my parents, both of whom are overweight, and also from the fact that I never enjoyed sports). I eat very well, though, and as a result, am a healthy weight. People are always surprised to find out that I'm out of shape

What do you look for in your significant others? What attracts you to someone? (Yes, EJCC I know you feel uncomfortable talking about that stuff, but inquring minds really want to know!). Are you friends with or sometimes interested in Thinkers or Feelers more frequently?

The two most important things that I seek out in a significant other are: 1. being my intellectual equal in conversation, and 2. having a sense of humor compatible with mine. (Another important thing, that I'm sure matters to pretty much every ESTJ, is that my SO agree with me politically, and is at the very least open to my religion (i.e. not trying to convert me).) Besides that, I don't want there to be awkward silences, but I also don't want to be cut off mid-sentence all the time.
I'm attracted (both romantically and otherwise) to people with whom I can converse for hours without getting bored. THAT'S chemistry.
Generally, from my experience, I'm attracted to feelers, but most of my male friends are thinkers (STPs, NTs). Two of my male friends I have considered dating (one is an INFJ, and the other is ISFP), but neither worked out. For a time, I dated someone who may have been ESTP, but that was a terrible idea (not at all because of personality type).

What kinds of things make you feel the most squirmy emotionally?

Things that make me feel bad about myself in some way, e.g. things that make me insecure, doubtful of my ability, remorseful, embarrassed. I find that I'm more affected by embarrassment than anyone I know - I can't just remember humiliating memories (often)! I have to relive them, no matter how unimportant they were! It's frustrating.

 

[EJCC]

Also... a potentially helpful link:

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/sj-guardhouse/16006-estjs-emotional-outbursts-2.html

My other thread. It's dead now, but some cool stuff happened.

 

[matilda]

Back for another one!

Do ESTJs always rationalize certain feelings i.e. attraction/romantic interest?

 

[Cimarron]

I'm not an ESTJ, but this stood out to me:

3) He usually comes to me for advice about his SO's.

I know that this has become a frequent method of mine, using it when I'm trying to get over a girl I like, when she'd rather keep it as friends. It shows to you and to myself (two birds with one stone) that I'm trying to move on, and still value your judgment as a friend.

EJCC, do you relate to that in any extent?

But there are differences between when I've done it and what this guy in MDP2525's post is doing:
They rejected me, I wasn't the one who rejected them.
Usually, they've turned me down at the start, so I was never in a relationship with them to begin with. He's been in a relationship with you in the past.

So those factors may affect what I said above, I don't know.