[ESTJ] Ask an ESTJ!

[EJCC]

My INTP boyfriend and I (INFJ) have started going out with a couple that he knows, an ESTP husband and an unknown type wife. INTP boyfriend and unknown type wife have similar interests and enjoy talking shop with each other. I have enough similar interests to be able to enjoy listening to their conversation; however, I feel that ESTP husband's interests are not being included. I know of three of his interests: the Civil War, certain old movies and TV shows, and The Walking Dead. Unfortunately, I'm not knowledgeable enough in any of those three areas to hold up my end of a conversation, but I am interested in all of them. In what ways could I start and sustain a conversation with him about his interests?

People love to nerd out about their interests, so I'd suggest asking him questions to start, and letting him go off on it for a while (since you find it interesting). Then turn it into a conversation by engaging the subject as he talks to/at you.

 

[Eilonwy]

People love to nerd out about their interests, so I'd suggest asking him questions to start, and letting him go off on it for a while (since you find it interesting). Then turn it into a conversation by engaging the subject as he talks to/at you.

Sorry about typing ESTP instead of ESTJ.

Do I need to be very direct in my questions? I tried to segue into a conversation about the civil war by bringing up a recent conversation I had with my bro-in-law about the civil war. That got a response, but then fizzled out pretty fast.

 

[Eilonwy]

See? This recent exchange is a good example of a fizzled conversation. What am I doing wrong? I see ESTJs here expounding with other members. I am successful in conversations (more in real life than here). So, what is off?

 

[EJCC]

Sorry about typing ESTP instead of ESTJ.

Wow -- I don't know why I didn't suspect that it was a typo. Maybe because it was a typo several times in the same post. Either way, the last post I made definitely had an undertone of, "I don't know why she's asking this here, but whatever"

Do I need to be very direct in my questions? I tried to segue into a conversation about the civil war by bringing up a recent conversation I had with my bro-in-law about the civil war. That got a response, but then fizzled out pretty fast.

I'm not entirely sure how this is type-related, which is how I was able to answer that question regardless of type in my last post. That being said, I'll explain my reasoning just in case it is type-related. If someone asked me about my interests and it seemed like an obvious attempt to just check off a box -- like the box marked "ask them how school is going", "ask them how their wife is doing", etc -- then it would register as small talk and not as a good conversation starter. Especially if the person looks like they're trying too hard to be interested, and aren't actually interested.

So, I suppose the solution would be to ask questions in such a way that it's clear that you're actually interested? Or to ask in the company of other interested parties. I might hesitate to talk about my interests if only the person who was asking seemed interested, and everyone else seemed bored.

Alternately, maybe he just wasn't interested in talking about it, even though he's interested in the topic. It's hard to know.

See? This recent exchange is a good example of a fizzled conversation. What am I doing wrong? I see ESTJs here expounding with other members. I am successful in conversations (more in real life than here). So, what is off?

It didn't fizzle -- I just needed time to think about how to reply! No worries.

 

[Eilonwy]

I'm not entirely sure how this is type-related, which is how I was able to answer that question regardless of type in my last post. That being said, I'll explain my reasoning just in case it is type-related. If someone asked me about my interests and it seemed like an obvious attempt to just check off a box -- like the box marked "ask them how school is going", "ask them how their wife is doing", etc -- then it would register as small talk and not as a good conversation starter. Especially if the person looks like they're trying too hard to be interested, and aren't actually interested.

So, I suppose the solution would be to ask questions in such a way that it's clear that you're actually interested? Or to ask in the company of other interested parties. I might hesitate to talk about my interests if only the person who was asking seemed interested, and everyone else seemed bored.

Alternately, maybe he just wasn't interested in talking about it, even though he's interested in the topic. It's hard to know.

I may be generalizing based on too little personal evidence, but it seems to me that there are certain categories of interests in which the SJs I've known are very well-versed. Even though I perceive myself as interested in the same subject, I am more of a generalizer, and I feel like that comes across, sooner or later, as not interested to the same degree, which then comes across as small talk. If I try to explain it from a typology perspective, I think it would involve Si/Fi details vs Ni/Ti details, where my Ti falls behind because of its tert position and I'm left with my Ni vaguery.

I watched and liked a lot of the same old TV shows that he did, but he remembers character and plot details and I have vague feeling memories, so I feel I have nothing to contribute to keep the conversation interesting to him, even though the conversation is interesting to me.

It didn't fizzle -- I just needed time to think about how to reply! No worries.

Ok. What I got from this is that I need to be mindful of our different processing times in different areas and not jump to conclusions.

 

[EJCC]

I may be generalizing based on too little personal evidence, but it seems to me that there are certain categories of interests in which the SJs I've known are very well-versed. Even though I perceive myself as interested in the same subject, I am more of a generalizer, and I feel like that comes across, sooner or later, as not interested to the same degree, which then comes across as small talk. If I try to explain it from a typology perspective, I think it would involve Si/Fi details vs Ni/Ti details, where my Ti falls behind because of its tert position and I'm left with my Ni vaguery.

I watched and liked a lot of the same old TV shows that he did, but he remembers character and plot details and I have vague feeling memories, so I feel I have nothing to contribute to keep the conversation interesting to him, even though the conversation is interesting to me.

So, what is it that you enjoy talking about, w/r to those things, if not the details? Give me an example. There has to be somewhere you two can meet halfway.

Ok. What I got from this is that I need to be mindful of our different processing times in different areas and not jump to conclusions.

In fairness, some of it was also that I forgot to reply. At first I went "I need time to think about this", then I set it aside, then I forgot about it -- and it had been processed by the time you reminded me.

 

[Eilonwy]

So, what is it that you enjoy talking about, w/r to those things, if not the details? Give me an example. There has to be somewhere you two can meet halfway.

I enjoy the concepts, especially as those concepts relate to humanity in general. I enjoy hearing the details, but I don't retain them.

He told me about the civil war art he's acquired. He told me about the significance of certain hats and uniforms. I remember he told me that, but I don't remember the significance itself. I remember that there's something about a particular school, but that's all I remember--no details. He mentioned the artist several times, but I couldn't remember the artist's name when I was talking with my brother-in-law. However, when my brother-in-law showed me books with prints by the major civil war artists, the style of one artist looked familiar, even though I couldn't be sure that I recognized any of the prints or his name. It turned out that the style I recognized was the correct artist.

Admittedly, my memory has been affected by the stress of taking care of my mom, in that I seem to be losing the details faster than I would in the past.

He seems to really love The Walking Dead and wants someone to talk with about it. His wife has zero interest in it. I haven't watched it, but I decided I would start with season 1 and see if I like it enough to watch through to current season.

In fairness, some of it was also that I forgot to reply. At first I went "I need time to think about this", then I set it aside, then I forgot about it -- and it had been processed by the time you reminded me.

Still a good reminder for me to be aware that others have different processing needs.

 

[prplchknz]

what happened to the other estj? I liked her.

 

[Yama]

I have a question for the ESTJs. Actually it's not a question. Let me love you

 

[Ursa]

what happened to the other estj? I liked her.

I turned into a sneaky lurker, muahaha!

I'm taking a back seat because I have a lot of obligations offline. Also because my sensor orientation makes me crave physical activities and the concrete here-and-now rather than discussion. (My attention span sucks online.) I'll pop in every now and then, though! And hopefully some of the forum drama will be more tame then too.

I've really enjoyed your contributions too, prplchknz. Part of the reason why I want to check on this place once in a while.

 

[Ursa]

Fellow ESTJs!:

How do you cope with your Fi? What techniques have you employed to develop your Fi? What, in your experience, has worked and what hasn't worked?

 

[prplchknz]

This seems like a good question for ESTJs

When someone asks you how much do you want to spend going on vacation how do you decide?

I got asked that and I was like uhhh 350, not being sure if i even had 350 to spend. my method for budgetting is pay rent pay bills if i have enough to eat yay.

sorry i'm not good at knowing how much i need for things, i just usually hope i have enough. Like i never stay in hotels so i don't even know how much is reasonable for that. luckily we're only staying in hotels 2 nights the rest of the time lodging is free.

 

[EJCC]

Fellow ESTJs!:

How do you cope with your Fi? What techniques have you employed to develop your Fi? What, in your experience, has worked and what hasn't worked?

Gosh this is a tough one -- my Fi development hasn't been entirely conscious.

Off the top of my head...

What has worked:
- Trying to find balance between listening to my feelings and being overly self-indulgent
- Recognizing, when I'm in a mood, that sometimes it's not about the feelings themselves as much as it is about being exhausted, or stressed about one particular thing that's carrying over into all areas of my life -- and learning to re-apply Te to those problems even in the dark depths of Fi
- Trying to listen to my Fi even when I'm not in a shitty mood, so it doesn't catch me off-guard and scare the shit out of me later on (this is WAY harder than it looks but it also gets easier with time)
- Talking to people about my Fi, when they're the sorts of people who would understand it and not judge me for it

What has not worked:
- Trying to work through the Fi on its own terms, without outside help, for as long as it takes to get "the right answer" -- that's a recipe for being in a shitty mood for a week and a half straight, and it's also masochistic as hell -- being miserable gets old after a while, even when it's "for a good cause"
- Trying to talk to people about it who wouldn't understand, or just venting the Fi before getting a chance to let it percolate and organize itself into something that makes sense

This seems like a good question for ESTJs

When someone asks you how much do you want to spend going on vacation how do you decide?

Short answer: I plan a lot, and I comparison-shop a lot.

Long answer:
- I check my budget and my savings account for how much I can afford to spend
- I check average prices for the things that will be most expensive wherever I take my vacation (usually housing, unless I'm couch-surfing, in which case plane/bus prices and eating out)
- If it looks like I can't afford the trip, I ask myself: would I rather be very thrifty on the trip, or not take the trip at all?
- If I decide to be thrifty, I start making plans for how to be thrifty and have fun at the same time -- e.g. buying groceries and cooking for my friends instead of eating out with them

 

[Ursa]

This seems like a good question for ESTJs

When someone asks you how much do you want to spend going on vacation how do you decide?

EJCC covered it really well.

I would only add that I save money while I am home too, which can sometimes void the need or desire to save while on vacation. I make it a plan to save a certain amount by the ticket purchase date. It may take years, or it may take only weeks. It depends where I want to spend my vacation.

 

[SD45T-2]

- Talking to people about my Fi, when they're the sorts of people who would understand it and not judge me for it

Where the heck do you find them?

 

[Sil]

Fellow ESTJs!:

How do you cope with your Fi? What techniques have you employed to develop your Fi? What, in your experience, has worked and what hasn't worked?

Suppression was a disaster.

Emotional exploration in small, controlled doses worked best. You're not ignoring it, but you're also not giving it enough room to do any damage.

 

[Sil]

This seems like a good question for ESTJs

When someone asks you how much do you want to spend going on vacation how do you decide?

I got asked that and I was like uhhh 350, not being sure if i even had 350 to spend. my method for budgetting is pay rent pay bills if i have enough to eat yay.

sorry i'm not good at knowing how much i need for things, i just usually hope i have enough. Like i never stay in hotels so i don't even know how much is reasonable for that. luckily we're only staying in hotels 2 nights the rest of the time lodging is free.

Depends on what I want to do with my vacation.

 

[Sil]

Do ESTJs like technology, or are you technology avoidance prone?

I like technology, but less on a use-it-level and more on a conceptual one. It's how everything works together-- or doesn't-- that interests me.

EDIT: Haha, I can see I already answered this.

 

[Ursa]

Fellow ESTJs!:

How do you cope with your Fi? What techniques have you employed to develop your Fi? What, in your experience, has worked and what hasn't worked?

Newfound answer to my own question:

I discovered that writing one private journal entry each day really helps.

 

[rmrf]

To all ESTJs: Do you consider yourself to be judgmental, and if so, do you sometimes feel guilty about looking down on others?