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[ESTJ] Ask an ESTJ!

ICUP

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To an ESTJ: My SO's best friend is ESTJ. And I have never really gotten along with him. Everytime I talk to him, he ends up making a ridiculous comment, that is sometimes crude. I wonder what his deal is. I have tried recently to repair things, but he again made a crude (female-oriented) comment, which I didn't really respond to. Can someone explain what he is up to?
 

Anna intuitive

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I enjoyed the fourth video a lot. I had a sense of who you are (the strong person you are maturing into) and this fitted somewhere into my jigsaw puzzle of understanding ESTJs. Reading the thread I often am sorting, what is ESTJ, what is this particular individual - you or sui generis or one of the other ESTJs, or my own colleague? So the video helped me in that process.

For the first three videos the sound wasn't coming up clearly so I couldn't actually hear what you were saying more than in little snatches. I kept thinking, Oh, she looks like my niece! and this was a pleasant association because I'm very fond of her, but also puzzling because she's an ENTP. Then after a while I could see more decisiveness in your body language (the J rather than the P).

I haven't watched to the most recent video. The other ones I found through a link posted in this thread. To find the new one I'd have to locate where that link was posted. So I haven't done that yet.
 

mcmartinez84

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I haven't watched to the most recent video. The other ones I found through a link posted in this thread. To find the new one I'd have to locate where that link was posted. So I haven't done that yet.

When/if you find the link, can you repost it? I looked through a bunch of pages and found no video links D:
 

EJCC

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I enjoyed the fourth video a lot. I had a sense of who you are (the strong person you are maturing into) and this fitted somewhere into my jigsaw puzzle of understanding ESTJs. Reading the thread I often am sorting, what is ESTJ, what is this particular individual - you or sui generis or one of the other ESTJs, or my own colleague? So the video helped me in that process.
:D Excellent! I'm glad.
I kept thinking, Oh, she looks like my niece! and this was a pleasant association because I'm very fond of her, but also puzzling because she's an ENTP. Then after a while I could see more decisiveness in your body language (the J rather than the P).
Even more evidence of my Ne! :laugh: My very first video - which I removed - left several people asking if I'm really an F, and left many ENFPs posting that they related to everything I said. It was surreal!
I haven't watched to the most recent video. The other ones I found through a link posted in this thread. To find the new one I'd have to locate where that link was posted. So I haven't done that yet.
When/if you find the link, can you repost it? I looked through a bunch of pages and found no video links D:
http://vimeo.com/22924108

This is the most recent one :) The others, you can link to via the sidebar. I think the fourth is still my favorite, although i look the best in the fifth (i.e. the most recent) one. I dig myself into embarrassing holes in the fifth video :laugh: I just hope you won't' judge me too much for them.
 

Fidelia

Iron Maiden
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That, my friend, was awesome. I had forgotten which questions I even asked. Shall I make up another list of them for you? I love your videos! More comments in a bit (things here are crazy right now).
 

EJCC

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That, my friend, was awesome. I had forgotten which questions I even asked. Shall I make up another list of them for you? I love your videos! More comments in a bit (things here are crazy right now).
:blush: I'm glad you like them! One of these days, you should make one too - and perhaps a video conversation might arise :D Or at least I should show up on Ventrilo someday... I have the software and everything, but I never know when the cool people are online...

And sure, you should definitely make me another list of questions! :D Answering them will be an excellent distraction from studying for finals :laugh:
 

EJCC

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I forgot to address some posts :doh:
EJCC,
Wow, you even play video games! Very interesting, thanks for the answer. :)
No problem! :) I used to play video games a LOT more than I do now. Before, I had more free time, and so I could afford to "reward myself" with many hours of gameplay in addition to the family time in front of the TV in the evening :laugh: But now I'm really busy, so I always feel like video games are a waste of time unless I'm playing them with friends - or unless I have extra time to kill that wouldn't be better used by catching up on my favorite TV shows on Hulu. Yeah, it's tricky business...
I asked because my ESTJ dad seems to have no hobbies. Even when he likes, he can't watch a movie until the end because he always stops in the middle to wash dishes or something.
:huh: How much free time does he have, per day? I ask because my dad is INTP and acts similarly. Not with the nagging of things you should do (that's just a type-A xxxJ thing, and my INFJ mom can be the same way) - but with feeling the need to do productive things in the middle of a movie. I think it's because he has so little time at home that he feels like there's all this stuff he SHOULD be doing, that would get neglected if his schedule was breakfast-work-lunch-work-home-dinner-tv-bed (which is what it would be otherwise).
:laugh: To an extent, I relate to this. As I'm posting on here, I'm also watching TV and working on homework. Usually it's just that I have so much energy that I feel like I'm not doing enough if I'm just sitting there. I try not to make other people live up to my standards though. :laugh:
:yes: I'm the same way. Yet another example of what we've talked about before - ESTJs having higher standards for themselves than for other people.
Also, since I have so little free time these days, I do exactly the same thing with TV; the last few times I've watched TV, I've either folded laundry, sorted through emails, or done craft-related things, like shortening the straps on one of my tank tops, or fixing a hole in a blouse.
To an ESTJ: My SO's best friend is ESTJ. And I have never really gotten along with him. Everytime I talk to him, he ends up making a ridiculous comment, that is sometimes crude. I wonder what his deal is. I have tried recently to repair things, but he again made a crude (female-oriented) comment, which I didn't really respond to. Can someone explain what he is up to?
Not sure. It could be any number of things, based on your information. Can you elaborate? Can you give an example of an exchange you've had with him?
 

Tamske

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Feeling you should be productive = J?
Should I change type??? I'm always feeling like that. If my mind isn't busy, it's wasted time. And I don't know what has hit me lately, but I'm doing the dishes first and the writing later (read: never. That's the punishment you get for doing the work first!). Or am I just procrastinating on the writing? It must be that! *confused*
 

EJCC

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Feeling you should be productive = J?
Should I change type??? I'm always feeling like that. If my mind isn't busy, it's wasted time. And I don't know what has hit me lately, but I'm doing the dishes first and the writing later (read: never. That's the punishment you get for doing the work first!). Or am I just procrastinating on the writing? It must be that! *confused*
Don't change type! I think it's your Ne. :yes: I definitely give my Ne partial credit for the fact that I'm always doing something, because once my Te/Si to-do list is completed, I give my Ne free reign as a reward, which means even more projects and tasks! :D So I'd say a large percentage of what I enjoy doing in my spare time, I enjoy doing because I find it interesting and fun and mentally stimulating, i.e. exactly what Ne loves.
 

Tamske

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I'm not worrying about that trying to be productive, because for me "productive" usually means "creative". It's that "working first" that I don't trust... :unsure::newwink:
But the writing is now at a very boring stage: I'm looking if I used the pronouns (polite vs informal pronouns in Dutch) correctly... Don't worry, Ne will come back... I hope... when I'll get started on a new story.
 

entropie

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I think my estj boss really likes me, she has bonded so close mentally with me now its amazing. She trusts me as her right hand and I am learning A LOT around the business world. What'cha think is this a good thing ? I am not used to people bonding so close with me totally on their own. I am even not afraid she has a double agenda tho I am a total sceptic regarding people. I trust her unconditionally
 
A

A window to the soul

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I think my estj boss really likes me, she has bonded so close mentally with me now its amazing. She trusts me as her right hand and I am learning A LOT around the business world. What'cha think is this a good thing ? I am not used to people bonding so close with me totally on their own. I am even not afraid she has a double agenda tho I am a total sceptic regarding people. I trust her unconditionally

We're magnets. :\
 

Anna intuitive

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Here's a question. This might have been answered before in bits and pieces, but putting it all together: what are the eight functions of the ESTJ, according to mbti, in order, for example Se, Ti, Ne, Fi...? I'm guessing ... and more importantly, I want a concrete example from daily life for each one!

I realise this will take time and thought... I don't need the answer right away but would be interested in a breakdown with simple examples.
 

redacted

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Here's a question. This might have been answered before in bits and pieces, but putting it all together: what are the eight functions of the ESTJ, according to mbti, in order, for example Se, Ti, Ne, Fi...? I'm guessing ... and more importantly, I want a concrete example from daily life for each one!

I realise this will take time and thought... I don't need the answer right away but would be interested in a breakdown with simple examples.

"Order" is kind of a funny word, but it's supposedly Te, Si, Ne, Fi, Ti, Se, Ni, Fe. I'm not an ESTJ so I can't give examples I guess.
 

Tamske

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If you suffered a huge disappointment, how do you get over it? I like to talk about it, but I've experienced my husband wants to process it in silence.
I want a sounding board, not just somebody listening, but somebody listening and telling me it's going to be okay, in short I want a good chunk of Fe. Hubby doesn't like me in such a state, and I guess it's quite obvious why.
But how do you process disappointment (or grief)? Do you need to be alone? Do you need a good hug?
 

EJCC

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If you suffered a huge disappointment, how do you get over it? I like to talk about it, but I've experienced my husband wants to process it in silence.
I want a sounding board, not just somebody listening, but somebody listening and telling me it's going to be okay, in short I want a good chunk of Fe. Hubby doesn't like me in such a state, and I guess it's quite obvious why.
But how do you process disappointment (or grief)? Do you need to be alone? Do you need a good hug?
I think, with ESTJs, the bigger the trauma, the more we will withdraw from people in order to deal with it. But on the other hand, it can depend on whether or not we think that reassurance will help. I'm not usually prone towards venting about things, but there are often times when I vent about something frustrating that just happened in the hopes that what I'm venting about is something that's worth venting about... so I'll usually vent not just hoping for Fe, but also hoping for bluntness and honesty - e.g. "You don't need to be frustrated about this, because it's easily fixable, like so...", or "That is totally worth being frustrated about, and I'm so sorry that you have to go through that, but it'll all be over soon. :)" So, in short, from my experience, if an ESTJ vents at you, it's because they want either validation or advice... but not just a pat on the shoulder and a soothing word or two.

However, with more serious issues comes the ESTJ's need to sort things out internally, and to decide how they personally feel about something. And that absolutely requires alone time. If my mind is like an attic, then I can compare it to needing to clean up the messiest part of the attic before showing it to guests. But if people want to see that part of the attic before it's ready to be shown to the world, I'll be kind of cranky about it; Most of the time if someone brings up a topic that I haven't sorted out internally yet, my (unspoken) reaction is along the lines of "Just shut up and leave me alone! I can't think about this if you keep talking to me!!!" But once it's all sorted out, I can explain my thought process and my decision in such a way that no one would think that it took soul-searching, let alone serious alone time. You know ESTJs - we're great at saying things succinctly. :laugh:

Speaking of succinctness... to sum up this post, yes, we do need alone time, unless we approach you about it. But it still makes us feel a little better to know that the people who care about us most are there with us and understand what we're going through (there's that validation thing again!). So yes, a hug is good too. :hug:
 

Little Linguist

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I have a question:

Do you think type has an effect on the way you learn, and if so, how do you learn best? In other words, what do you hope for in a teacher/instructor/professor, and what kind of methods do you like in class? Thanks in advance. :)
 

EJCC

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Finally replying! Sorry I took so damn long. :doh:

... and more importantly, I want a concrete example from daily life for each one!

I realise this will take time and thought... I don't need the answer right away but would be interested in a breakdown with simple examples.
Fun question! Here are some examples from my life (that are vague because they happen to me all the time):

Ti: I see a movie with some friends. We talk about the movie afterwards. During the discussion, I list all my likes and dislikes. Depending on which friends I’m with, either we get into an analytical discussion of why we liked and disliked what we did (ending with a final rating from one to four stars), or my friends will go “Stop insulting the movie! I liked it.” I react with “I was just trying to start a discussion!”
Another example: I hear someone being judgmental about the “other side” of a political view. I play devil’s advocate, correcting them even though I agree with their position, because I’m trying to be objective.

Te: Everything in my life. :laugh: Every time I force myself to do something even if I don’t want to. Every time I try to get someone to do something, because what they’re doing doesn’t seem right to me.

Fi: I go to the store, I see that they don't have a CD that I like. That annoys me, not just because I had wanted to buy it, but because I feel like the store ought to have that CD in stock because it's so good. So I go to the desk and ask them to order several copies, not just one, so that way there'll be an extra one for whoever else stops by. My Fi is then satisfied, because I did a good deed. (There’s lots of Te in here too, but I have a hard time separating my Te from my Fi, when I talk about it.)

Fe: I’m at a party, and I walk towards a group of people having a conversation. I say hi, and then stay silent for a while as I listen to the conversation, figure out what people’s senses of humor are like, and finally I make a comment that I feel is appropriate and charming and well-suited to the group’s mood.

Ni: I guess… if I get bad vibes from a situation, and can’t explain why? :shrug: I dunno – I don’t really understand the function.

Ne: I go to a garage sale and see a chair. The chair is ridiculously ugly, but it's only $2. My imagination goes crazy - I could strip the chair of paint and put nice wood finish on it, I could re-upholster it, etc. etc. - and I buy it in the hopes that I can make something pretty and fun out of it. Sometimes my Te kicks in and forces me to complete the project, and sometimes my Ne gets bored and the project never even gets started, let alone finished.

Si: I hear a song on the radio. Something just doesn't feel right about it, and I can't figure out what it is. I think about this for a while, and then realize that it's a cover of a song I know really well. What felt wrong was that it was a different lead vocalist, and that the vocalist was singing in a different key.

Se: I'm really frustrated by something, so I listen to some loud music to calm me down. I turn up the volume so that I can hear every sound, every harmony, every instrument, every dynamic change. I don't think about anything - I just let the music wash over me. It’s not meditation, exactly, but it’s pure sensory experience. Noticing absolutely everything.


I have a question:

Do you think type has an effect on the way you learn, and if so, how do you learn best? In other words, what do you hope for in a teacher/instructor/professor, and what kind of methods do you like in class? Thanks in advance. :)
Yeah, I think type has a lot to do with learning. Not sure how specifically, but I get the impression that Ns like having more broad and conceptual assignments, and S types like real-world applications. I personally don't mind if what I'm learning is abstract, as long as you give me a concrete reason to care. I'm not going to respond well to "it's important because it's intellectually stimulating", or "no one has succeeded in this subject yet, but what matters is that you try"... :dont: A philosophy prof tried that last one on me a year ago, and I automatically hated his guts.

As for what I like in professors... I like professors who value clarity. :yes: Nothing bugs me more, as a student, than a professor who isn’t clear about what they expect from you as a student. You’ll get a vague assignment, ask the prof for clarification, they don’t give it, and you turn it in, only to get a C because you didn’t fulfill the prof’s expectations. I could go ON AND ON about how much that pisses me off :ranting: but I’ll spare you :laugh:

Also, some classes (like advanced math, or economics) tend to have professors who expect you to figure everything out on your own. I can't STAND that. Here's an example of something that happened to me in an economics class this past year.

Prof: Here's how you do the problem. First, you find A. Therefore, you find B. So then --
Me: -- Excuse me, I have a question. How did you get that?
Prof: Well... it's kind of intuitive.
Me (unspoken): Uh, NO, no it ISN'T intuitive, which is why I'm asking the question!!!

Honestly, I'd rather have a boring but thorough professor than a scatterbrained professor who doesn't actually teach you anything and expects you to teach yourself. Neither is ideal, but at least with the first option I'm actually LEARNING something.

As for methods in class… depends on the class. Are you a language prof? What sort of class are you teaching? Is it more based on writing, or memorizing facts? Scantron tests or 10 page essay questions?
 

Little Linguist

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I'm an English language teacher in Germany, and invariably I have a pretty mixed bag of students, but in one class, there are predominantly SJ/SP students. So typically I have a mixture of theory and practice in my lessons.

Never would I tell a student that something is just a feeling unless it really is. Or I tell them: Well, there are three ways of going about it: memorizing about 30 pages' worth of rules, or practicing a lot and getting a gut feeling about it, or just knowing. Either way, it doesn't matter, as long as you steadily improve. However, memorizing doesn't necessarily translate into success. Of course, it works for some people. I try to emphasize finding something that works and then I'll try to find a helpful strategy that matches.

In my classes, I try to emphasize people 'discovering things' for themselves, and I'm there to give a 'helping hand' when necessary. Let me give you a concrete example:

I have a class where I'm doing Office Skills. Since this is a very practical class, I have to present it in a practical way, really. So I think we can't just talk about stuff; we have to do something constructive. So I often have classes with the theory and homework with the practice. That of course means that I have a crap-load of work because I have to correct a lot of stuff, but I find this really gives the best of both worlds. Sometimes in class, we have telephoning role plays or filling out forms together, things like that. We also have a lot of discussions and partner/group work to spice things up a bit. I try not to have the same ol' routine every time.

One criticism that I get - and that's why I'm writing you because I think that it's an SJ problem that you could provide some good insight on - is that I'm not 'clear' or 'structured' enough. Now I *think* I'm really structured, except on off-days when I am kind of not having a too-good grasp on my Te, but they obviously don't. So I'm wondering: what do you expect in terms of structure. See, I'm a bit worried about spelling everything out before we even start, because I'd think that'd take the fun out of discovering it on your own. :D Besides, I don't want to make people feel like it's a kindergarten class by telling them everything step by step when it's college.

But maybe I've been going about it the wrong way, so I'd appreciate any feedback you'd be willing to give.

P.S. The exam is listening, reading, and writing. All quite practical in nature, but no memorization necessary, and limited creativity. I figure they have time to be creative during class. ;)
 
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