[ESTJ] Ask an ESTJ!

[sui generis]

I like ESTJ's. Do you think they would like ISFJs?

I don't think I've ever met an ISFJ, but I like most people, unless they've proven themselves to be jerks.

 

[EJCC]

Hi friends-
Do you become interested in people for sexual relationships by falling for their brains first? For me, physical attraction is very much secondary to the mental connection that I have with a person. They could have four arms and three toes and I would probably be interested in them as long as they are on the same page as I am, mentally. I'm just wondering if this is an ESTJ commonality, or if it's just a quirk of mine.

For me, I need to be sexually attracted to the person, and that's probably 75% mind and 25% body - so even though I really need to like the person in order to be sexually attracted to them (e.g. if someone is a total stud but also a douchebag, there goes the attraction), there's still a physical element in there. Which is annoying, because I'm mentally attracted to three or four guys, but they aren't physically attractive at all. OR... I'm both mentally and physically attracted to people, but they aren't manly. So, to answer your question... Yes. But as I mentioned before, the physical aspect can still make or break the deal, for me.

Just a side note - I've only had three serious relationships. Is it common for ESTJ's to be very picky/careful with who they get involved with?

Absolutely! For me, at least. I don't even think of myself as that picky, though - I don't have long lists like some people, for required height or economic status or whatever else. I've long since accepted that if I overthink relationships, my love life won't go anywhere. So, the only things I'm even remotely picky about are:

1. Same qualifications as with friends (especially niceness and trustworthiness),
2. I must find them physically attractive; and
3. They have to be manly. This is not a type-related trait, and it links directly with #2.

But it's not like I have a list in mind when I meet guys. I never do. I just wait for that spark. If it doesn't come, then whatever. Otherwise...

 

[Tamske]

I like ESTJ's. Do you think they would like ISFJs?

In my last story, I've got the ESTJ heroine fall in love with the ISFJ sidekick She admires his appearance and most of all his endurance. Of course, it took a very long time before the heroine realized she was indeed in love... Thinkers !

 

[Tamske]

I agree with pretty much all of this. Does your ESTJ get sad if he spends too many days with nothing productive to do? I've come to the conclusion that ESTJs might be more ill-suited to retirement - or unemployment - than any other type...

He always finds something productive... I'm actually more annoyed by his lazy periods. I always feel as he's bored and I should find something creative for him to do. But that's because I would be bored if I did the things he likes. So I've learnt to ask:
"Say, would you like a game of (insert board game)/...?"
And if he answers something like
"I don't feel like doing something..."
Then I know:
"So I can write now?"

ESTJs -
I revolt against your structured work/play dichotomy, for it is false and confining! GRRG!!

Don't spend your energy on that. Let them keep their calendar toys.

 

[sui generis]

I thought of an ESTJ anecdote this afternoon and I want to see if you guys relate.

A couple of years ago I was visiting my INFP BFF in Washington DC. We went to Arlington National Cemetery. After a long day of walking, our feet hurt, and we ended up sitting in the Amphitheatre and talking for a long time.
Arlington National Cemetery:: Visitor_Information

On the way home on the Metro, we were talking about how beautiful the amphitheatre was. I started talking about how, yes, it was beautiful, but I was amazed by the vastness of it all, and I think that the beauty of it is in the details, like how much work it took to move all of that marble, the precision and the math involved in cutting all of those slabs of marble so that they would fit together into a perfect circle, and and and ZOMG ALL OF THE LOGICAL DETAILS.

She looked at me and told me I was ruining the beauty of it! But in my mind, so much of the beauty is in the intricacy of the details. It's beautiful on its own, but thinking about the intricacy makes it even MORE beautiful.

You know?

 

[EJCC]

You know?

All too well. I have plenty of similar anecdotes, especially when shopping or at museums or monuments or other things like that. It'll usually go like this:

xNFx friend: "It's so beautiful..."
Me: "... and look at the craftsmanship! Wow!"

Even if I don't "appreciate beauty" like some people, I think I appreciate good craftsmanship more than anyone else I know. Even my "random comment" moments, despite being kind of stoner-like (despite my never having smoked pot in my life), are usually still like that. Example:

Me: "I just had a random thought."
Friend: "Yeah?"
Me: "Have you ever thought about how complicated shoes are? I mean, pants and shirts are just pieces of fabric sewn together, but shoes have all these different materials, and you have to use really heavy-duty equipment to make them, and not even the most epic do-it-yourselfer that I know could ever consider making quality shoes. It's amazing when you think about it."
Friend: "...... ..."

 

[raz]

I thought of an ESTJ anecdote this afternoon and I want to see if you guys relate.

A couple of years ago I was visiting my INFP BFF in Washington DC. We went to Arlington National Cemetery. After a long day of walking, our feet hurt, and we ended up sitting in the Amphitheatre and talking for a long time.
Arlington National Cemetery:: Visitor_Information

On the way home on the Metro, we were talking about how beautiful the amphitheatre was. I started talking about how, yes, it was beautiful, but I was amazed by the vastness of it all, and I think that the beauty of it is in the details, like how much work it took to move all of that marble, the precision and the math involved in cutting all of those slabs of marble so that they would fit together into a perfect circle, and and and ZOMG ALL OF THE LOGICAL DETAILS.

She looked at me and told me I was ruining the beauty of it! But in my mind, so much of the beauty is in the intricacy of the details. It's beautiful on its own, but thinking about the intricacy makes it even MORE beautiful.

You know?

That's why sometimes I think that other people that look down on thinkers for not appreciating the warmth type of beauty feelers see are just narrow minded. What you and EJCC described is more in Te. As Te users, seeing something carefully put together using high level analysis and intellect is just wonderful to look at. It's a display of the potential of the connection between a man's mind and his environment. It's unavoidable and natural. That's why I love technology.

To me, what strikes me as awe-inspiring is the japanese television and american adaptation communities. My example is Pokemon. It's a show that started 13 years ago in USA, 14 years ago originally in Japan. It airs in Japan and within 6 months, it is translated with American voice actors. There is an entire fanbase in Japan for the anime and the games, based on the Japanese culture. Then there's the fanbase in America for the American episodes or the Japanese originals.

There is a constant correlation between the two countries for this franchise to have success. That doesn't include Europe and other continents with translations. What's going on in each country and the communication between each one is just amazing to me. I follow several websites and Pokemon as a franchise daily thanks to those sites. I become interested in the intricacies of the community at work.

 

[sui generis]

This thread is so awesomely validating!

That's why sometimes I think that other people that look down on thinkers for not appreciating the warmth type of beauty feelers see are just narrow minded. What you and EJCC described is more in Te. As Te users, seeing something carefully put together using high level analysis and intellect is just wonderful to look at. It's a display of the potential of the connection between a man's mind and his environment. It's unavoidable and natural. That's why I love technology.

YESSSS. It's not that I don't get warm-fuzzy feelings from, like, sunsets or dogs or watching children play, but the things that really stun me with their beauty are the intricate things. And, yeah, technology boggles my mind, in a good way. Especially when you think about how rapidly it's improving, how rapidly it's improved in our lifetimes....

Me: "I just had a random thought."
Friend: "Yeah?"
Me: "Have you ever thought about how complicated shoes are? I mean, pants and shirts are just pieces of fabric sewn together, but shoes have all these different materials, and you have to use really heavy-duty equipment to make them, and not even the most epic do-it-yourselfer that I know could ever consider making quality shoes. It's amazing when you think about it."
Friend: "...... ..."

YESSSS TO THIS TOO. I have done this several times, but the one I remember most clearly was like "Dude, I have a HAND. And it's got BONES and SKIN and TENDONS and isn't that fucking AMAZING?" Also wasn't high at the time.

 

[Giggly]

A couple of years ago I was visiting my INFP BFF in Washington DC. We went to Arlington National Cemetery

Oooooh lucky you. I would love to go there. *sighs*
When it's brought to my attention I can appreciate Te too.

Please keep the ESTJ posts coming, y'all! This is great.

In my last story, I've got the ESTJ heroine fall in love with the ISFJ sidekick She admires his appearance and most of all his endurance. Of course, it took a very long time before the heroine realized she was indeed in love... Thinkers !

Hahaha sounds about right.

 

[sui generis]

Oooooh luck you. I would love to go there. *sighs*

I hope you get a chance to go sometime. DC is lovely, and Arlington is so beautiful and peaceful.

 

[ThinkingAboutIt]

If you left a company that you had been with for a long time to start a new job, would you be nervous? If so, what could be done to help you acclimate quickly? If not, what would you most be looking forward to?

 

[sui generis]

I would be nervous, as change always makes me nervous, but it would probably be manageable, and I probably wouldn't show it externally. Being welcomed by my coworkers would make me feel more comfortable and acclimated, as would having a thorough understanding/explanation of my job duties. It also wouldn't hurt for me to know a bit about the company culture and how things are 'normally done' among my coworkers, even if I choose not to follow that norm.

 

[ThinkingAboutIt]

I would be nervous, as change always makes me nervous, but it would probably be manageable, and I probably wouldn't show it externally. Being welcomed by my coworkers would make me feel more comfortable and acclimated, as would having a thorough understanding/explanation of my job duties. It also wouldn't hurt for me to know a bit about the company culture and how things are 'normally done' among my coworkers, even if I choose not to follow that norm.

Thanks for your help, I appreciate it! I have another question...how much do you need direction from management? What is respectable to you in management?

 

[sui generis]

I may be an atypical ESTJ due to being only slightly "es", so I think that other ESTJs may have a more representative answer. In any case, I like answering these questions. Makes me think and learn about myself.

I require very little supervision from a supervisor, both because I enjoy working independently and because I have the kind of work ethic where once I get started on something, I stay stuck to it and don't waste time. At one of my previous jobs, my boss came to check on me and say hi once a day for approximately ten minutes, which was perfect! I hate being hovered over or micromanaged. :steam: However, I'd like the supervisor to be around to help if I come across a problem that I can't solve.

I respect a manager who is fair, who is kind, who is intelligent and capable. I do not respect a manager who takes out hir bad days/moods on hir subordinates, or is inconsistent. Also, see discussion several days upthread about how I don't *automatically* respect authority if the "authority" is less intelligent or apt than I am.

 

[ThinkingAboutIt]

I may be an atypical ESTJ due to being only slightly "es", so I think that other ESTJs may have a more representative answer. In any case, I like answering these questions. Makes me think and learn about myself.

I require very little supervision from a supervisor, both because I enjoy working independently and because I have the kind of work ethic where once I get started on something, I stay stuck to it and don't waste time. At one of my previous jobs, my boss came to check on me and say hi once a day for approximately ten minutes, which was perfect! I hate being hovered over or micromanaged. :steam: However, I'd like the supervisor to be around to help if I come across a problem that I can't solve.

I respect a manager who is fair, who is kind, who is intelligent and capable. I do not respect a manager who takes out hir bad days/moods on hir subordinates, or is inconsistent. Also, see discussion several days upthread about how I don't *automatically* respect authority if the "authority" is less intelligent or apt than I am.

Thanks, this was very helpful! I did read through some of the posts, and will look to see if there are other replies as well

 

[EJCC]

Some different answers (without reading mnestic's in advance):

If you left a company that you had been with for a long time to start a new job, would you be nervous? If so, what could be done to help you acclimate quickly? If not, what would you most be looking forward to?

A little, but I'd throw the worry to the back of my mind because I'd know the worrying wasn't rational - I'd tell myself "There is no reason for you to worry except that you're afraid of the unknown. You have a good work ethic and people like you. Therefore, nagging voice, you need to shut up." And the nagging voice will mostly shut up, except for making the occasional "Mmph!" noise from underneath the duct tape

Thanks for your help, I appreciate it! I have another question...how much do you need direction from management? What is respectable to you in management?

I hardly need any direction from management. Whenever I fill out a job application and go to an interview, and they ask me my strengths and weaknesses, I tell them that one of my biggest strengths is that all you need to do is tell me what needs to be done, and I'll do it to the best of my ability. And if I get confused, I will ask questions, get the answers, and go straight back to work. I hardly need management at all, except as a source of information.

What's respectable to me in a manager is politeness/niceness and patience (especially with answering my questions). Also, having a light-hearted air helps when I'm just starting out. I can make myself really tense when I'm thrown into a totally new job situation and feel like I have no idea what's going on, and having a completely grave and serious manager doesn't help much.

 

[ThinkingAboutIt]

Some different answers (without reading mnestic's in advance):


A little, but I'd throw the worry to the back of my mind because I'd know the worrying wasn't rational - I'd tell myself "There is no reason for you to worry except that you're afraid of the unknown. You have a good work ethic and people like you. Therefore, nagging voice, you need to shut up." And the nagging voice will mostly shut up, except for making the occasional "Mmph!" noise from underneath the duct tape

She does have a great work ethic, that I do know without a doubt. Shows up early and works hard. Too funny about the duct tape, I have seen her literally put her hand over her mouth when she gets going about something

I hardly need any direction from management. Whenever I fill out a job application and go to an interview, and they ask me my strengths and weaknesses, I tell them that one of my biggest strengths is that all you need to do is tell me what needs to be done, and I'll do it to the best of my ability. And if I get confused, I will ask questions, get the answers, and go straight back to work. I hardly need management at all, except as a source of information.

That is what I thought, thanks!

What's respectable to me in a manager is politeness/niceness and patience (especially with answering my questions). Also, having a light-hearted air helps when I'm just starting out. I can make myself really tense when I'm thrown into a totally new job situation and feel like I have no idea what's going on, and having a completely grave and serious manager doesn't help much.

If you are going to be doing the same job you always have, but just at a different company, would you prefer to set up/organize everything yourself? How easy do you find it to work within someone else's system as opposed to your own?

 

[sui generis]

I want to set up my own system, for sure! I mean, what if the previous employee thinks differently than I do and their system doesn't make any sense?

 

[sui generis]

I just thought of another ESTJ question! And I fear that this may make me sound like a douche, but if anyone's going to understand that that's not what I intend, it's you guys.

I was just thinking about a woman I know, and how she occasionally gets on my nerves because she is possibly an ESTJ as well. We're both passionate about what's right and wrong, only we have completely opposite ideas. I've only met one other confirmed ESTJ, and it was a similar situation. There was much friction.

Most of my friends are introverts-- they listen to me talk. When I'm with another extrovert, it sometimes feels like a competition for airtime. :steam:

Do you get along with other people of your type, or does it depend on the person? Are most of your friends opposite or near-opposite types?

 

[EJCC]

If you are going to be doing the same job you always have, but just at a different company, would you prefer to set up/organize everything yourself? How easy do you find it to work within someone else's system as opposed to your own?

If I'm allowed to do things my way in a new situation like that, then I will. If I don't know if I'm allowed to or not, I'll ask my manager and I'll try to convince them that my way has worked for the entire time I've been in this career, etc etc etc. But if I have to work in their system, I can adapt pretty well. I won't like adapting, but I'll get used to it after a while.

Do you get along with other people of your type, or does it depend on the person? Are most of your friends opposite or near-opposite types?

I think it depends on the person. With the ESTJs I know in real life, either we have no interests in common or one of us won't care enough to keep a conversation going. However, I get along with the ESTJs on this site pretty well

Here are the types of my best friends:

INFJ (x2)
ENTP
ENFJ (x2)
INTJ

I have an ESFP friend who likes me a lot more than I like her, so she deserves some credit even if she's not on the list. And I have no SJ friends, really. I used to have an ISFJ friend, but she didn't like straying from her pre-existing group of friends to hang out with an outsider.

So I guess I do make friends with my opposite types