[ESTJ] Ask an ESTJ!

[Giggly]

Will reply to old posts soon, now that I've revived the thread, but for now I have a question that is not quite fully formed, that I'll ask here because I'm not sure where else it would go.

There are people I've met throughout my life, who have tended to switch conversational moods extremely abruptly. They'll be cheerful one moment, jovial, pleasant, in high spirits, and then at the drop of a hat they become as serious as death. (I'm not including abrupt mood switching from cheerfulness to angry venting, because I've seen that in a TON of people, especially Fi users.) It doesn't surprise me when a conversation partner does that to me, but I know that it surprises others, because I tend to do that in conversation, and I've seen others react that way to me. I can't think of particular types that do it, except my own, and possibly ESTPs, since I've seen [MENTION=6109]Halla74[/MENTION] make post transitions like that on TypeC, and I know that his online self is a good reflection of his real life self. (I haven't met him, but my gut tells me that this is so!)

Like I said, none of this is fully formed in my head yet; I can barely articulate what it is that I'm observing. All I know is that plenty of people don't communicate like that. For example, I've never seen anyone with Fe dom or aux communicate like that. So I was wondering: is it type-related? What have you folks' observations been, regarding this, of ESTJs and others? Do you have ANY idea what I've been rambling about?

I don't have an answer but people are so interesting!

 

[EJCC]

More comments:

Husband - and I guess more Te/Si users - are happy if they did well, are happy to spend the evening relaxing, they make their decisions and don't look back, confident that they have made the best one, or at least, that trying to change it now will be more trouble than it is worth. So it's useless to look back. I do that all the time, telling myself to do better next time.

How does that looking back process work? How do you feel while you're doing it?
I ask because ESTJs do look back on their mistakes, but they're more likely to when they're already upset about something else, and they're re-visiting all their old mistakes at once, making a picture in their head of their general ineptitude. Going through those old mistakes, in that manner, feels like re-living them, for an ESTJ.

Have you ever lived with any ENTP(s)? I have read that ESTJs and ENTPs living under the same roof is like ideal roomates.

SD45T-2 is right; I've never lived with an ENTP. The people I've lived with have been INFJ, ISTJ, and INTJ. (If parents count, then I've lived with an INTP -- but that's not the same.)

...My God, this thread is enormous. Ah...many of my questions have probably been asked before, but I can't bring myself to read all 188 pages.

I recently made a thread (here) asking whether my boyfriend was ENTJ or ESTJ. Well...after much analysis, it appears that he's most likely NOT an intuitive. Someone actually introduced the idea that he COULD be an ESTP, which is quite a likely option. I've done some research on both types, but it seems that my boyfriend doesn't COMPLETELY fit either one.

I read your description of your BF before I looked at the thread, and my first though was "Sounds like a well-balanced ESTP, and reminds me of Halla, because he has so much similarity to ESTJs due to health and having an ESTJ dad." So it was a surprise to see that the thread generally agrees with me, and others had made the Halla comparison before me.

After reading all sorts of descriptions of ESTJs, I keep getting the impression that they're all anal about rules and don't know how to have fun or be spontaneous. My boyfriend just isn't like this at all. He's fun and lively (he has ADHD too), yet isn't irresponsible or flippant or disloyal. Are many ESTJs like this as well? They can't all be like your stiff manager at work, right? And for that matter, surely ALL ESTPs can't be easily bored or irresponsible or uncommitted or hedonistic?

Exactly. I would argue that your BF is an excellent example of the type of ESTP you described; fun-loving and responsible and loyal, maintaining a perfect balance, though slightly tilted more towards fun than responsibility. ESTJs can be fun and lively too, but usually it comes across differently. I might say that balanced ESTJs appear more mellow and subdued than balanced ESTPs. But I digress! Yes, there are lots of ESTJs like this, and lots of ESTPs like that -- and because they're so well-balanced, they're probably much more likely to be mistyped.

 

[Mia.]

After reading all sorts of descriptions of ESTJs, I keep getting the impression that they're all anal about rules and don't know how to have fun or be spontaneous. My boyfriend just isn't like this at all. He's fun and lively (he has ADHD too), yet isn't irresponsible or flippant or disloyal. Are many ESTJs like this as well? They can't all be like your stiff manager at work, right? And for that matter, surely ALL ESTPs can't be easily bored or irresponsible or uncommitted or hedonistic?

To tack on a bit to what [MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION] said, my ESTJ husband is very fun and lively, while still being very responsible (he is most definitely a strong J). He can absolutely charm a room and have them rolling with laughter. I think part of why he can be so charismatic is that he is a 6w7 (it fits him to a T), and the 7 wing is very noticeable in him.

Overview of 6w7: The Buddy

The traits of the Six and the traits of the Seven reinforce each other. This subtype is more clearly extroverted, more interested in having a good time, more sociable, and, for better or worse, is less intensely focused on either the environment or itself than Sixes with a Five-wing. In this subtype, there is also a dynamic tension between the main type and wing. The Six focuses on commitment, responsibility, and sacrifice of personal pursuits for the sake of security, while the Seven focuses on experience, satisfaction of personal need, and keeping options open. (People of this subtype can sometimes seem like Twos.) They can be affable, supportive, and strongly identified with others. Sixes with a Seven-wing are more eager to be liked and accepted by others than the Six with a Five-wing and are also more hesitant to speak out. The Seven-wing adds sociability, playfulness, and enthusiasm, but the Six component can be uneasy with this, so Sixes with a Seven-wing frequently monitor the reactions of others to see if they are behaving acceptably. Noteworthy examples of this subtype include Jay Leno, Tom Hanks, Johnny Carson, Sally Field, Candice Bergen, Gilda Radner, Princess Diana, Marilyn Monroe, Julia Roberts, Mikhail Baryshnikov, Reggie Jackson, Patrick Swayze, Tom Selleck, Ted Kennedy, Andy Rooney, Rush Limbaugh, “Fred Mertz,” “Archie Bunker,” And “the Cowardly Lion.”

Healthy persons of this subtype desire to feel not only accepted and secure with others, but also happy, particularly with regard to material well-being. They have broad areas of interest and often have one or more hobbies or pastimes. People in this subtype are friendly and sociable, taking neither themselves nor life that seriously, or at least not solemnly. Many Sixes with a Seven-wing are attracted to the performing arts (acting, popular music) or other professions that allow them to combine their energetic, interpersonal qualities with discipline and craft (advertising, marketing, managing, law). They tend to be self-deprecating, and if possible, turn their fears into occasions for reassurance, further bonding with others, or even humor. Healthy Sixes with a Seven-wing are usually extremely playful and funny, since a sense of humor is one of their most salient means of coping with life and its tensions. They are generally more extroverted than the other subtype.

 

[Tamske]

More comments:
How does that looking back process work? How do you feel while you're doing it?
I ask because ESTJs do look back on their mistakes, but they're more likely to when they're already upset about something else, and they're re-visiting all their old mistakes at once, making a picture in their head of their general ineptitude. Going through those old mistakes, in that manner, feels like re-living them, for an ESTJ.

That's quite the way I do it. When I screw up, I'd remember all the previous times I've screwed up and feel worthless. Hubby can't stand me in such a mood, expecially because he doensn't know how to react to it (yeah, Fe...). But that's the worst case, I have the same feeling almost every day in a milder form. I go over my day and tell myself what I should have done better. He tells me to be satisfied with what I have done, while I fret about what I didn't do. I'm terribly afraid of failing him. So when he comes home early, and he tells "there isn't any place to sit down", I feel bad for not cleaning up in time (but of course, he meant it litterally). Never mind I did work in the garden and re-wrote some really good chunks...

I don't think hubby does anything like it. I thought that was an ESTJ thing. What's done is done, now I'm home from work and I can relax.

PS. A positive note! I'm so happy that I found the courage yesterday to do the dishes while I was exhausted. Now I've got some energy and I don't have to spend it on dishes!

 

[Tamske]

I've read and thought that planning is for Js and Ps tend to improvise. Now in my life I see a huge exception.
If it's about something fun, like a party or a science or craft fair, I tend to excessively plan it. I simply enjoy thinking about it and adding more and more activities/decoration/... to it. My husband (the best ESTJ in the world) hates this with a passion. He dreads the extra work and gets stressed whenever I do it. Which leads to me minimizing my plans and carrying them out in secret, so he won't know how much energy I put into it. Which invariably backfires.
So what do I do for the craft fair next year, where I want to make the most awesome stand ever, instead of a simple table with some books (which hubby thinks I'm going to do)?

 

[Eugene Watson VIII]

ESTJ! how much don't you plan?

 

[SD45T-2]

ESTJ! how much don't you plan?

37.82% on weekdays, 62.94% on weekends.

 

[RaptorWizard]

ESTJs do you feel special being on this forum since your type is so rare here?

 

[EJCC]

I've read and thought that planning is for Js and Ps tend to improvise. Now in my life I see a huge exception.
If it's about something fun, like a party or a science or craft fair, I tend to excessively plan it. I simply enjoy thinking about it and adding more and more activities/decoration/... to it. My husband (the best ESTJ in the world) hates this with a passion. He dreads the extra work and gets stressed whenever I do it. Which leads to me minimizing my plans and carrying them out in secret, so he won't know how much energy I put into it. Which invariably backfires.
So what do I do for the craft fair next year, where I want to make the most awesome stand ever, instead of a simple table with some books (which hubby thinks I'm going to do)?

That's so strange. I would find that incredibly fun! I guess I'm the opposite of your husband in that regard; I love to plan fun things and hate work-related planning. If I'm going to go to the trouble of dealing with all the logistical issues that come with planning something big, then I want there to be some sort of payoff afterwards besides the satisfaction of being done.

Do you think it worries him because he's not good at it? Has he tried to plan things like that and had them go poorly? I have no idea why he'd get so worried on your behalf whenever you try and set those sorts of things up.

ESTJ! how much don't you plan?

I plan most of the time. The only times I make a point of not planning, are when I know that it would be more fun not to plan. I tend to leave weekends partially open for this reason; something fun might come up at the last minute. I might get a hankering for something new/random that I can get my friends to do with me.

ESTJs do you feel special being on this forum since your type is so rare here?

I feel special regardless of my type. :queenie:

 

[gromit]

I plan most of the time. The only times I make a point of not planning, are when I know that it would be more fun not to plan. I tend to leave weekends partially open for this reason; something fun might come up at the last minute. I might get a hankering for something new/random that I can get my friends to do with me.

A friend's mom (I don't know her type) in her very detailed daily plans, blocks out 20 minute chunks to "be spontaneous".

 

[SD45T-2]

A friend's mom (I don't know her type) in her very detailed daily plans, blocks out 20 minute chunks to "be spontaneous".

Wow. I was actually joking about how much I don't plan.

 

[Tamske]

[MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION]: my "planning" usually consists of baking, making decorations etc... and he believes crafts are synonymous for failure. Despite me showing times and again *I* am able to bring them to a good end. And that *I* enjoy crafts, even if they fail, I've had a good time.

 

[EJCC]

my "planning" usually consists of baking, making decorations etc... and he believes crafts are synonymous for failure. Despite me showing times and again *I* am able to bring them to a good end. And that *I* enjoy crafts, even if they fail, I've had a good time.

This makes no sense to me. He should be taking his judgments from past experiences -- so if you have shown time and again that you succeed at crafts, then he should know that you're good at them and they don't mean failure. Does he have some sort of issue with crafts as a concept? Has he ever elaborated on his feelings in that regard?

 

[Tamske]

This makes no sense to me. He should be taking his judgments from past experiences -- so if you have shown time and again that you succeed at crafts, then he should know that you're good at them and they don't mean failure. Does he have some sort of issue with crafts as a concept? Has he ever elaborated on his feelings in that regard?

About issues with crafts: he thinks he's clumsy. He's got a lifetime of doing (and hating) exercises to improve fine motoric skills, and being teased by his older sisters about it. Truth is, he isn't as clumsy as he thinks, and if he doesn't realize one has to be "handy" in order to do some task, he'll do it without any problems.
And most of the time, when repairing things or doing crafts, you have to try a few times, or they don't turn out as good as you thought, or (worst) you've got to interrupt because you fall short on some item or another. I guess his main problem is that they always take more time than you initially think. And of course, crafts are a chore to be completed as soon as possible...
I know, and he knows, well enough that the other one enjoys other things, but it's quite hard to convince ourselves that the other doesn't need rescuing from it.

We've talked a bit and we'll try this: I'll tell about all a month in advance, so he knows what to expect.

 

[EJCC]

Situation 1:

You have observational experience of your parents talking to your cousin. The cousin, disliking the control (or whatever were his reasons, I think he's an INFx), lies to your parents about things like good grades at school and makes a lot of promises just to end the argument, as in "okay, I will take a shower today," or "okay, I will learn more," or "okay, I will dress nicely," etc., but doesn't do it. There's also his mom, talking to your parents, telling them a lot of things about how his actions aren't socially "normal."

Now, you observe all that and you make an obvious opinion about him - lies a lot, cannot be trusted, doesn't follow through with his promises and plans, doesn't listen, doesn't do the "logical" thing, isn't practical, doesn't care if he looks nice, doesn't stand up for himself, is a "loser," etc..

Now 5-8 years later (he was around 13-16 at the time), you interact with him.

What is your opinion of him? Do you still have the same opinion? Do you assume that he's changed? Do you even consider the possibility that he could've changed? Do you consider re-evaluating him or do you assume that he's the same? Any other thoughts on this?

I could see some particularly judgmental ESTJs thinking that he'd be exactly the same now. People who support, for example, trying minors as adults in court (which is something that I don't support). However, I believe -- in part from personal experience -- that people can mature a LOT between early/mid teens and early adulthood. I'd give him another shot.

Situation 2:

You took your grandparents to a family meeting (celebration, and you have a car) and you're walking with them at the parking lot. There's a guy backing up, and he didn't wait for your grandmother to go, he just continued parking and so she moved away a bit so he could park (a bit slow, coordination's a bit off, she's old!). Would you shout at the driver or say something to him? Would you feel enraged at him?

I'd be annoyed at him for being an inconsiderate driver -- but you have to pick your battles. Yelling at him wouldn't change anything; in fact, I'd look like the crazy one and he'd look like he was in the right.

Situation 3:

It's your car. You're driving your granddad and your dad to a family meeting. Your granddad is fat and old, so he sits in the front - there's more space. But he's old and he's confused about fastening the seat-belt when going TO the family meeting, after 5 minutes you stop and fasten the seat-belt for him (so cops wouldn't charge you if they'd see no seat-belt on). Your dad, sitting in the back, is paranoid about the cops catching you and tells you that he should've sat in the front and grandpa should've sat in the back instead during those 5 minutes when he was trying to fasten the seat-belt.

When you're coming back, your dad rushes to the front and takes the front seat. Your grandpa has to go to the back, gets in, but doesn't complain - he's an ISFJ. What do you do? Do you shout at your dad (ExFP) for taking the front seat, even though you have told him repeatedly that you want your grandpa to sit in the front?

I would be a little frustrated, but not extremely angry. I wouldn't say anything about it in the car, because I wouldn't want to say it in front of my sensitive ISFJ granddad. What I would say afterwards would be something like: Why did you do that? It's really not that hard for me to buckle him up. Frankly, I could have just buckled him up before we started the car -- that would have solved the problem and been less awkward for everyone, than your unsubtle display back there. Would you please let me do that next time?
(I would also wait for an explanation after I asked him why, and if his explanation was good, then the rest of the statement would be void. If not, then I'd respond to his excuse and go on with the shpiel.)

Extra question 1:

Do you go on about something that you disapprove of for 1-2 minutes, even after you've explained it? Example would be going on about your dad taking the front seat in Situation 3, talking about it for 30-60s with short pauses. "why did you do it? I've told you not to do it. He's uncomfortable!" etc..

Only if I thought it would help him understand. When I do things like that -- and I don't think I do that very often? -- it's because it's serious enough that it warrants more explanation, especially if I feel like they don't know why what they did was wrong. In this case, I don't think I would, because it's clear from his behavior that my dad knew exactly what he was doing and what the response would be; it wouldn't help to tell him the emotional fallout because he clearly anticipated that, or at least didn't care, and I'd be annoyed enough with him to not want to waste the energy on correcting his apathy (because I doubt it'd make a difference).

Extra question 2:

Are you forgetful about what you've told someone, or what someone has told you?

Increasingly so, the less important the things in question are. I never forget the personal things I tell people, because it's such an event to tell them personal things. But the less important those things are, the less it matters that I waste the brain space on it. Hence, a common statement from me: "Have you seen _____? ... Oh, you haven't? Weird, I thought I'd shown that to you!"... and that statement probably happens every day to every other day.

Extra question 3:

Would you ever consider of trolling a forum of a certain societal group just because you don't like them? Say a goth forum (the guys with pink hair, lots of earrings, etc.).

If the above answer is positive, would you be proud if there was a list of "most hated members" and you were in it?

No offense intended if you're this sort of person -- but I find that behavior to be rude and a waste of time. I mean, what satisfaction do you get from it? Are you attempting to shame those people into changing their ways?? And why would you do that when it's such an unimportant thing that you're trying to shame them out of? Even if it was an important thing, there are better ways to convince them, ways that take less effort and aren't quite so asshole-ish.

I want to be respected, in everything I do. Doing shit like that will earn me disrespect -- which I know because I tend to not respect people who do that. So doing that would be counterintuitive. (Not to mention I'd feel bad afterwards.)

 

[Nicki]

What do you guys like doing for fun? Why?

 

[EJCC]

About issues with crafts: he thinks he's clumsy. He's got a lifetime of doing (and hating) exercises to improve fine motoric skills, and being teased by his older sisters about it. Truth is, he isn't as clumsy as he thinks, and if he doesn't realize one has to be "handy" in order to do some task, he'll do it without any problems.
And most of the time, when repairing things or doing crafts, you have to try a few times, or they don't turn out as good as you thought, or (worst) you've got to interrupt because you fall short on some item or another. I guess his main problem is that they always take more time than you initially think. And of course, crafts are a chore to be completed as soon as possible...
I know, and he knows, well enough that the other one enjoys other things, but it's quite hard to convince ourselves that the other doesn't need rescuing from it.

We've talked a bit and we'll try this: I'll tell about all a month in advance, so he knows what to expect.

That makes sense, I suppose, especially in light of the bolded. Maybe someday it'll make more sense to him...

What do you guys like doing for fun? Why?

Me personally, or ESTJs in general?

If me personally: I like socializing, doing crafts/artistic projects, playing and listening to music, researching things, doing new and fun things with friends e.g. trying new food and traveling to places I've never been (thus working out my Ne)... etc. etc. etc.

But before giving another shot, would you be a hard-ass on him for a period of time? On the other hand, that probably would fall under the particularly judgmental.

I think I would act cold towards him initially, due to being suspicious of him, and due to being busy watching for new (and old) behaviors. But that would be it.

Well, my thoughts exactly - the crazy one was the shouting one in that situation. It was close to the point of physical intimidation, but that person was still in the car, just had his window half-open.

Yeah, there's no point to that. I don't get those people. With women I especially don't get it; with guys I assume that it's testosterone run amok.

I see, so basically it would be a conversation. What if the person has no good explanation and keeps saying "well it's just?" Would you keep talking or leave him alone?

It all depends. I think I'd keep talking to him until either

1) he convinced me that his way was, if not as good as my way, then roughly equivalent to it;
2) it seemed like if I told him to do things my way from now on, he'd agree to; or
3) I realized that he was hopeless and I couldn't get through to him.

I wouldn't stop until I reached one of those three conclusions.

...So you wouldn't go about it just for the sake of it. Hm, I think that's an Ne thing. I'm not sure though.

I'm not sure if anyone does that for the sake of it.

I think it's either Fe or Fi, honestly. It would be Fi if they were trying to make you realize that your motivation was wrong, and it would be Fe if they were telling you outright that your actions were wrong, and not to do them again. Fi types would also be receptive to excuses, because that would mean that they were getting a fuller picture of where you were coming from mentally when you did what you did. Whereas Fe users would not tolerate that shit. (I know this from experience, as an Fi child of two Fe parents.)

What if you give an advice to someone? What if someone would tell you something that is actually interesting to you, but is about that person. Would you forget it or remember it?

I would definitely remember that. That would permanently shape my impression of that person, in terms of their character as well as our personal history.

No intention, just for fun. Just something to do in the evening... But I think not then. I wonder if this could be an ENFJ behavior. Hm, some people are very hard to type. I'm still gonna ask a few questions regardless the inconsistencies.

And I'm not, I'm trying to type someone. I don't know him well and he's... Varied. So it's quite hard.

What you were describing was trolling, and I think any type could have fun trolling people -- even ESTJs.

But you are unknown on the forums, so technically it wouldn't. However, feeling bad is still there.

I wouldn't be unknown after I'd started trolling them. Then, they'd know me for behavior worthy of disrespect.

1. Do you like sci-fi? Fantasy? Talking about movies/books here. Do you like video games?

Yes, yes, and yes. I used to like video games a lot more than I do now, but I still really enjoy them socially. Sometimes I'll pick up old favorites when I'm in the mood, which is once a year or so.

2. Do you ever say you're gonna do something a day before and the next day you do it differently or don't do it? Don't carry out little promises? And I mean that the day before you are sure that you are gonna do it.

Very, very often. But only with the little promises, and only when other people aren't relying on those decisions.

2. Example 1:

You say that you're gonna give a present to your grandma after you take her to the family meeting, but you do it before.

2. Example 2:

You promise to you're gonna take your grandma to a store tomorrow (she needs to buy medication) but the next day you tell her that you will not do it because simply you wanna visit a store yourself (not for meds). Grandma will get her meds the next day (she's doesn't need it immediatly).

I wouldn't do either of those, but that's just me, I think. My decision not to do those would be based on my attitudes towards family members, trips to buy medication, and gift-giving -- all of which I would take very seriously, and not every ESTJ would.

3. When you give an advice to someone, do you go on about them for 2-3-4 minutes or so? I mean mostly non-stop in a rather, seemingly forcefully, slow pace of voice?

I'm generally not that long-winded or slow-paced.
Sounds like when my INTP dad gives me advice, though.

4. Do you ever repeat yourself, when getting a point across or giving an advice? Maybe in the same words, maybe different words... That's through phone, so you can't see their body language, but the person is showing with the use of voice intonation and wording that he gets what you mean, even can say things like "I think exactly the same," etc..

I'm confused. So, he's the one giving advice, and you're the one making affirming noises to show that you understand them? But they repeat themselves anyway?

Appreciate the answers.

No problem at all.

These questions seem a little bit surface-level, for typing questions. Maybe a typing thread would be better?

 

[EJCC]

I thought that was Se? New external experiences.

Only if you're "in the zone" and fully immersed in the experience. Usually I'm not. I'm as immersed in my own thoughts and feelings about the new place, as I am in the new place itself.

Woman on woman, that's what I don't get. Man on man, that's manly stereotyping and yes - testosterone.

I never specified the gender of the person getting yelled at.
Regardless of the gender of the person getting yelled at, I don't understand when women yell at bad drivers.

Unfortunately I don't know that person that well. I remember him being happy about it, smiling, especially when he saw that he was in the top most hated members of the forum. I think it's more Fe-like, I don't think an Fi user would enjoy it, an Fi user would try to make it "right" instead. He was genuinely having fun by doing it.

I've seen that sort of trolling from INTJs, though. They get the moral enjoyment from Fi (i.e. punishing them for doing the thing that they don't like), while getting Ni enjoyment from the thrill of "how will they react next??".

Well personally I do rely on those little decisions. For example, if that was me he'd be driving to a store, I'd plan tomorrow: "okay, so around 1PM he's gonna pick me up, I'm gonna be at the store at around 1:30, gonna choose what I need and I should be out at 1:40-1:50, then he drives me back, so I'm gonna be home at around 2:20." Sure if I'm not doing anything, it wouldn't have much change. But even if I'm not doing anything, for example (and this is experience in similar situations), I do not start a new level in a video game, I don't watch a show episode, I don't start writing a long reply, I don't start an important chat, etc. say 30min before it. So it still does impact my day, even if it is as small as that. Basically, I waste my time because of that, and I hate wasting time ("Wasting my life..." thread is somewhat related).

Wow, I do not plan my days minute-to-minute like that. I like having a little bit of room to stretch out. At the very least it makes things less stressful when people are tardy and/or things don't go as planned. (When your best friend is an ENFP and your dad is an INTP, you learn these things. )

I do try to be considerate; if I say "I'm going to lunch at 11:45" to a friend and then they say they'll meet me there, I'll meet them there even if I would have rather eaten at a different time. But if no friends are involved and it's just me, I might go "I'm not hungry now, so I'll study before lunch instead of after, and maybe eat at 1." Those are the little things that I change around all the time -- and it's all from suddenly "not being in the mood".

Well I think he's slow-paced because he doesn't want to get too hot-headed (he gets there really quick sometimes) and because he wants to get his point across. Maybe he thinks that everyone else is an idiot? I don't know.

Here are some thoughts: He often gets angry, goes on about what he's angry about for a minute or so. Say a driver "what the fuck is he think that fucking idiot," etc., he can go on for a minute or even longer like that. When he was younger, he used to come around the time of Easter, Christmas and his birthday, visit the grandparents, my parents, so he would get better presents. He would appear nice, but wouldn't manipulate. Later on, probably around 18, he began asking to bake something he liked.

Since he's 18, when he comes to a celebration, he comes, says hi, smiles a lot, hurries up to eat (eats a lot), and is first to go through the door, 15-30 minutes before anyone else goes out (celebration usually lasts about 30-60 minutes).

He also does things like avoiding the questions that he doesn't know the answers to. He says "well who knows about _____," instead of "I don't know," which is what I say.

I think he's a much better fit for ESTJ than for an ENTJ, ESFJ or ENFJ. I don't think he's an introvert because he's rather loud - the getting angry stuff. He also likes hanging out with a few of his friends, organizing meetings, going to the clubs, doing drugs, etc..

I think you can at least somewhat relate to this.

Here are the only things I relate to in your post:

- Hanging out with friends, organizing meetings, going to clubs
- Often getting angry.

Besides that, there's a lot I don't relate to. I think the way he treats the family seems very selfish and inconsiderate, and I don't relate to it at all. He also seems pretty bad at being concise -- a trait that I thought ESTJs were naturally gifted at. If I go off on a several minute rant at someone, it doesn't involve me saying the same thing over and over, and it never is from anything as simple as a bad driver. There's only so much you can say about a bad driver: "They drove really poorly. What's up with that??" Maybe I'd rant a little about bad drivers in general, i.e. broadening the topic a little, but even then that adds, what, thirty seconds maximum? And if I'm really ranting about something that annoys me, I'll be talking as fast as I think; my slow and deliberate speech is something I save for emotional dealings, when I have to be very careful with my words for fear of walking all over someone's feelings.

Question 1: Do you care much how you look? For example, would you stand around, turn left and right, touch your hair, etc., in front of a mirror for 30-60s before going out? Likely making some kind of "control" face.

Definitely.

Question 2: Do you take in information from someone, make an opinion and give an advice to someone who you think needs one while ignoring him saying "you don't know the details?"

I don't ignore them saying "you don't know the details". When they say that, my reaction is always "Well then tell me! I can't give you good advice if you don't give me all the data!"

Generally, though, I do give advice based on the information I have at the moment -- because I presume that people aren't keeping data from me. Sometimes that presumption is correct, and sometimes it isn't.

Question 3: Do you avoid questions like "do you believe in god?"

Questions like "do you believe in god"? What questions are similar to that? Do you mean, probing questions? Philosophical questions?

 

[EJCC]

I thought that was Se? New external experiences.

Only if you're "in the zone" and fully immersed in the experience. Usually I'm not. I'm as immersed in my own thoughts and feelings about the new place, as I am in the new place itself.

Woman on woman, that's what I don't get. Man on man, that's manly stereotyping and yes - testosterone.

I never specified the gender of the person getting yelled at.
Regardless of the gender of the person getting yelled at, I don't understand when women yell at bad drivers.

Unfortunately I don't know that person that well. I remember him being happy about it, smiling, especially when he saw that he was in the top most hated members of the forum. I think it's more Fe-like, I don't think an Fi user would enjoy it, an Fi user would try to make it "right" instead. He was genuinely having fun by doing it.

I've seen that sort of trolling from INTJs, though. They get the moral enjoyment from Fi (i.e. punishing them for doing the thing that they don't like), while getting Ni enjoyment from the thrill of "how will they react next??".

Well personally I do rely on those little decisions. For example, if that was me he'd be driving to a store, I'd plan tomorrow: "okay, so around 1PM he's gonna pick me up, I'm gonna be at the store at around 1:30, gonna choose what I need and I should be out at 1:40-1:50, then he drives me back, so I'm gonna be home at around 2:20." Sure if I'm not doing anything, it wouldn't have much change. But even if I'm not doing anything, for example (and this is experience in similar situations), I do not start a new level in a video game, I don't watch a show episode, I don't start writing a long reply, I don't start an important chat, etc. say 30min before it. So it still does impact my day, even if it is as small as that. Basically, I waste my time because of that, and I hate wasting time ("Wasting my life..." thread is somewhat related).

Wow, I do not plan my days minute-to-minute like that. I like having a little bit of room to stretch out. At the very least it makes things less stressful when people are tardy and/or things don't go as planned. (When your best friend is an ENFP and your dad is an INTP, you learn these things. )

I do try to be considerate; if I say "I'm going to lunch at 11:45" to a friend and then they say they'll meet me there, I'll meet them there even if I would have rather eaten at a different time. But if no friends are involved and it's just me, I might go "I'm not hungry now, so I'll study before lunch instead of after, and maybe eat at 1." Those are the little things that I change around all the time -- and it's all from suddenly "not being in the mood".

Well I think he's slow-paced because he doesn't want to get too hot-headed (he gets there really quick sometimes) and because he wants to get his point across. Maybe he thinks that everyone else is an idiot? I don't know.

Here are some thoughts: He often gets angry, goes on about what he's angry about for a minute or so. Say a driver "what the fuck is he think that fucking idiot," etc., he can go on for a minute or even longer like that. When he was younger, he used to come around the time of Easter, Christmas and his birthday, visit the grandparents, my parents, so he would get better presents. He would appear nice, but wouldn't manipulate. Later on, probably around 18, he began asking to bake something he liked.

Since he's 18, when he comes to a celebration, he comes, says hi, smiles a lot, hurries up to eat (eats a lot), and is first to go through the door, 15-30 minutes before anyone else goes out (celebration usually lasts about 30-60 minutes).

He also does things like avoiding the questions that he doesn't know the answers to. He says "well who knows about _____," instead of "I don't know," which is what I say.

I think he's a much better fit for ESTJ than for an ENTJ, ESFJ or ENFJ. I don't think he's an introvert because he's rather loud - the getting angry stuff. He also likes hanging out with a few of his friends, organizing meetings, going to the clubs, doing drugs, etc..

I think you can at least somewhat relate to this.

Here are the only things I related to in this quote:

- Hanging out with friends, organizing meetings, going to clubs
- Often getting angry.

Besides that, there's a lot I don't relate to. I think the way he treats the family seems very selfish and inconsiderate, and I don't relate to it at all. He also seems pretty bad at being concise -- a trait that I thought ESTJs were naturally gifted at. If I go off on a several minute rant at someone, it doesn't involve me saying the same thing over and over, and it never is from anything as simple as a bad driver. There's only so much you can say about a bad driver: "They drove really poorly. What's up with that??" Maybe I'd rant a little about bad drivers in general, i.e. broadening the topic a little, but even then that adds, what, thirty seconds maximum? And if I'm really ranting about something that annoys me, I'll be talking as fast as I think; my slow and deliberate speech is something I save for emotional dealings, when I have to be very careful with my words for fear of walking all over someone's feelings.

Question 1: Do you care much how you look? For example, would you stand around, turn left and right, touch your hair, etc., in front of a mirror for 30-60s before going out? Likely making some kind of "control" face.

Definitely! Checking to see if I like the proportions of the outfit I'm wearing, fluffing my hair a little, touching up the lip color...

(The ESTJ guy you know does that?? )

Question 2: Do you take in information from someone, make an opinion and give an advice to someone who you think needs one while ignoring him saying "you don't know the details?"

I don't ignore them saying "you don't know the details". When they say that, my reaction is always "Well then tell me! I can't give you good advice if you don't give me all the data!"

Generally, though, I do give advice based on the information I have at the moment -- because I presume that people aren't keeping data from me. Sometimes that presumption is correct, and sometimes it isn't.

Question 3: Do you avoid questions like "do you believe in god?"

Questions like "do you believe in god"? What questions are similar to that? Do you mean, probing questions? Philosophical questions?

 

[UniqueMixture]

I want to have angry sex with an estj. How would I go about accomplishing this goal?