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Thread: Ask an ESTJ!

  1. #741
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    The answer to the first sentence is the part that I bolded. We're not all hardasses. It looks to me like most ESTJs you've interacted with have been a bit unhealthy. For example, when healthy ESTJs are in arguments, they do look at other points of view... if you have evidence with you. If it looks like they're refusing to consider the other side of the argument, it's that they take debate very seriously and if/when they lose debates, they take it very personally and get embarrassed and they feel it in their soft marshmallow center but refuse to show that. In contrast, from my experience with INxJs, those types sometimes can be VERY judgmental, and REFUSE to accept factual evidence contrary to their beliefs, whereas xSTJs, technically, will change their minds when given significant, irrefutable evidence to the contrary.
    Also, if it looks like they're "trying to shove their beliefs down your throat", it's because they don't think of them as "beliefs", but instead think of them as "the right thing". They're just trying to help ... in a very untactful way, lol

    She speaks the truth! I think the ESTJs I've met are actually much more openminded than me in some respects.

  2. #742
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Word, you just have to get ESTJs out of Te mode for a minute, get them to trust you enough to let their Si talk to you. You'd be surprised how intellectually curious and open to unique subjective experience they can be.

    The trick is getting them out of Te mode!
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  3. #743
    lords of summer EJCC's Avatar
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    @fidelia: Yeah, funny how that works! It's been that way with every INxJ I've ever known. Can't figure it out. And you know, not that many people seem to recognize that fact!

    @sim: True dat. But when you get them into Ne mode... THEN things get good.
    Edit: Maybe it's just me, but I feel like I'm not in "Te mode" for the majority of the time. But the way I imagine "Te mode" is a humorless, bossy sort of mode. I dunno. You watched my video, right? That was pretty much my default mode, and... eh, I'm overthinking this. Never mind.
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  4. #744
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I know, we seem to fly under the radar because we're not as vocal. However, I think we're more stubborn and have spent time building intricate structures to hang our information are so we're very reluctant to change it unless there's an imperative reason to. (Maybe it's the Ti?)

    What makes you open to considering new information when you hear it? I've seen ESTJs change their minds, but I don't know why they did.

  5. #745
    lords of summer EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    What makes you open to considering new information when you hear it? I've seen ESTJs change their minds, but I don't know why they did.
    I guess it comes down to wanting to know the truth. It feels good to know the facts, and know the right way to do things. Also, it's good to avoid the embarrassment that comes from being proven wrong, lol...
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  6. #746
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    What about stuff that can't be known as being objectively true? For example, I remember telling an ESTJ some things I believed about education. He seemed skeptical initially, but I later heard him explaining it to someone else as his own adopted idea.

  7. #747
    lords of summer EJCC's Avatar
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    ^ It's a pretty straightforward thought process when that happens. It happens to me a lot, too (mostly with philosophical topics and occasionally with religion) - I'll hear someone say their theory on an issue, or something else that's not concrete/objective like you said, and I say to myself "Hey, that makes more sense than what I thought previously. I'll go with it." And that's that.

    Although what'll happen on the outside will just look like this:

    Person: "Here's my theory: _______."
    ESTJ: "Oh, okay. Huh. "
    ^but the ESTJ is, on the inside, replacing their previously held idea with the new one.
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  8. #748
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    See that would never happen with me. But you described the process exactly! I just never would have guessed that was what was happening in their heads. Thanks!

  9. #749
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    @sim: True dat. But when you get them into Ne mode... THEN things get good.
    How do you get them out of Ne mode when they're struck there?
    Got questions? Ask an ENTP!
    I'm female. I just can't draw women

  10. #750
    lords of summer EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamske View Post
    How do you get them out of Ne mode when they're struck there?
    "Stop being such a goofball! There's WORK to be done!!!" Oh wait, that's what I say to xNTPs, not the other way around...

    What would be a good example of an ESTJ stuck in Ne mode?
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

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