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Thread: Ask an ESTJ!

  1. #711
    lords of summer EJCC's Avatar
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    Childoftheprophets:

    Thank you for this question. It's been a long time since someone asked a question on this thread that I really really needed to think about. I think I understand both sides of this issue enough to give you some okay advice.

    It sounds like the main issue is that they're nagging at you all the time about your time off school. The other issues you mentioned (i.e. talking a lot, criticizing your every move) may just be who they are... and either way, I'd rather just start with the issue at hand.

    I have an ENTP friend who's made some unique life decisions since I've known her, and I used to talk to her about them in a similar way to what you're describing with the two ESTJs in your life. I was doing that (and I think the two ESTJs are doing what they're doing for the same reason) because I cared about her and wanted what's best for her, because the uniqueness of her life path worried me, because it seemed random and not like it would lead directly to a good career/life, and because if I were her and in the same place, I would be terrified. However, my ENTP friend made a point of emphasizing the fact that this was what she wanted to do, and she had everything under control, and, most importantly, nothing I could say could change her mind. That completely convinced me, and since then I have not spoken a word to her about it.

    I suggest that you do something similar to what my ENTP friend did, i.e. something like "I know you only want what's best for me, but this is the path that I have chosen, and my mind and my heart are set, and as much as I appreciate your advising, I have made my decision." As much as ESTJs are inclined towards bossing people around, and asking them to do things their way all the time, most of them know a pointless endeavor when they see it. (We don't like things that are pointless or inefficient, after all.) So hopefully, after something like that, they would respect your wishes.

    Curzon:
    OH yeah. Practicality party!
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  2. #712
    Riva
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    Curzon, would you agree that Miles O'Brien was an ESTJ? Uncomplicated?
    Miles O'Brien is a ISTP. Not an ISTJ or ESTJ. He is one of the more silent ISTPs. There are many types of ISTPs as in all other personality types. There are extroverted ISTPs too. But Miles is definitely one of the introverted ones.

    Odo is DS9 is a ISTJ. There are similarities between ISTPs and ISTJs (I know you meant ESTJ). But only in appearance. Odo if you recall work and perform his duties because those are his duties. Responsibilities are something ISTJs don't neglect.

    Where as Miles has a different approach to work. He works (works hard when he has to) only because that is the most practical and logical thing to do. Not because he is asked to do it or because those are his responsibilities.

    ISTJ - Practical and responsible
    ISTP - Practical and 'do it if it only makes sense'.

    ----

    It should also be noted that ISTPs shadow functions are Te, Si, Ne, Fi. Which are the main functions of ESTJs. Apparently any type could sink in to their shadow functions and work as if those are their primary functions if they want to. So an ISTP could work as a ESTJ if they want to (theoretically).


    Nice avatar by the way. You obviously have very good taste. ; )


    Everyone keeps on saying Curzon you have such a nice avatar and good looks.


  3. #713

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    @EJCC:

    Thank you very much for your advice, and I'm glad I could give you something to think about! Lol, between that and the new ESTJ board member, I'd imagine this is a big weekend for you!

    I guess I need to make it clearer to the naggers in my life that my path is not open for continuous discussion and that I've allowed my patience to be misinterpreted as an invitation for debate.

    Still, I don't won't hurt anyone's feelings, but perhaps some level of upset is unavoidable. People can't be expected to agree on everything . . . .

    Also, on a somewhat related note, I think my SJ difficulties really started in high school after I lost faith in a lot of people and things I previously trusted in. What little affinity with Guardians I had suddenly disappeared altogether.

    Embracing my Guardian side and becoming a more dedicted person now will help me a lot when I go back to school later, if that makes any sense . . . .
    "In the opening and shutting of heaven's gate, are you able to play the feminine part?" -- Lao Tzu

    "For when the One Great Scorer comes
    To write against your name,
    He marks - not that you won or lost -
    But how you played the Game."
    -- Grantland Rice

    “Life is a game, boy. Life is a game that one plays according to the rules.” -- from The Catcher in the Rye

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do, and what a man can't do." -- Jack Sparrow

  4. #714

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    @Curzon:

    Ha, I figured O'Brien didn't quite fit that description, but I said "ESTJ" anyway so I could shoehorn DS9 into this ESTJ thread!

    Lol, maybe we should start our own DS9 personality discussion; that might be pretty fun, as there was a lot of personality on that show!
    "In the opening and shutting of heaven's gate, are you able to play the feminine part?" -- Lao Tzu

    "For when the One Great Scorer comes
    To write against your name,
    He marks - not that you won or lost -
    But how you played the Game."
    -- Grantland Rice

    “Life is a game, boy. Life is a game that one plays according to the rules.” -- from The Catcher in the Rye

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do, and what a man can't do." -- Jack Sparrow

  5. #715

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    If an ESTJ is talking too much (about himself) and not stopping or giving the other side a chance to speak, what should you tell him to shut him up?

  6. #716
    lords of summer EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChildoftheProphets View Post
    @EJCC:
    ...
    I guess I need to make it clearer to the naggers in my life that my path is not open for continuous discussion and that I've allowed my patience to be misinterpreted as an invitation for debate.

    Still, I don't won't hurt anyone's feelings, but perhaps some level of upset is unavoidable. People can't be expected to agree on everything . . . .
    If you approach it right, and if the ESTJs are rational/not too touchy, then no one's feelings will be hurt. If their feelings do get hurt, it's 90% likely that it won't be your fault, anyways.

    Also, on a somewhat related note, I think my SJ difficulties really started in high school after I lost faith in a lot of people and things I previously trusted in. What little affinity with Guardians I had suddenly disappeared altogether.

    Embracing my Guardian side and becoming a more dedicted person now will help me a lot when I go back to school later, if that makes any sense . . . .
    It makes sense. But what matters is that the path you're taking is best for you. The Guardian method doesn't work for everyone. Don't force something on you that doesn't make sense for the way you want to develop your skills, or just approach life, or whatever.

    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by branflakes View Post
    If an ESTJ is talking too much (about himself) and not stopping or giving the other side a chance to speak, what should you tell him to shut him up?
    I'd just cut in with whatever you want to say, when you want to say it. I doubt that they'd take it personally. However, they probably WOULD take it personally if you were direct with them about it. If it's a debate situation, and they're shutting you down, I'd just be forceful and say "Excuse me, would you give me an opportunity to respond?" And then they will, if they respect you at all.
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  7. #717
    . JAVO's Avatar
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    In a moment of complete silliness, I accidentally gnawed on an ESTJ's arm. What should I do?

  8. #718

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    Thanks EJCC; I'll keep all that in mind.

    And I think when I said I have to be more of a Guardian, be more dedicated, I meant in defense of my own goals, beliefs, and identity, not in response to other people's preferences.

    Lol, if I actually am in supreme command of what I'm doing, and doing it resolutely, people won't be worrying so much about me doing it in the first place!
    "In the opening and shutting of heaven's gate, are you able to play the feminine part?" -- Lao Tzu

    "For when the One Great Scorer comes
    To write against your name,
    He marks - not that you won or lost -
    But how you played the Game."
    -- Grantland Rice

    “Life is a game, boy. Life is a game that one plays according to the rules.” -- from The Catcher in the Rye

    "The only rules that really matter are these: what a man can do, and what a man can't do." -- Jack Sparrow

  9. #719
    Senior Member BlueFlame's Avatar
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    What were you like growing up?
    I'm becoming fairly certain I'm raising an ESTJ little girl, and I'm wondering what another one was like
    One of my best friends is an ESTJ as well, so I'm looking at commonalities and all that good stuff!

    ~*79% Extraverted*~
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    ~*74% Feeling*~
    ~*58% Judging*~

    Enneagram Type: SX 3w2

  10. #720
    lords of summer EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChildoftheProphets View Post
    Thanks EJCC; I'll keep all that in mind.
    No problem!

    Quote Originally Posted by JAVO View Post
    In a moment of complete silliness, I accidentally gnawed on an ESTJ's arm. What should I do?
    That is so adorable! Did the ESTJ react well? Was it awkward? 'Cause if it wasn't awkward, then you don't need to do anything

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFlame View Post
    What were you like growing up?
    I'm becoming fairly certain I'm raising an ESTJ little girl, and I'm wondering what another one was like
    One of my best friends is an ESTJ as well, so I'm looking at commonalities and all that good stuff!
    Hm... Not sure if all of these apply, but here are some of the characteristics I had as a child:
    - Most of the time, either in a generally friendly/genial mood or really really hyper (i.e. not whiny, not cranky, but a very happy kid overall)
    - Not exactly "tomboyish" per se, but interested in guy-dominated hobbies, and friends with more guys than girls
    - A "good kid"; never got in trouble, was never "grounded", always did well in school, generally didn't challenge authority unless the authority was being "unfair", or unless the authority wasn't as knowledgeable on a particular subject*
    - Kind of a know-it-all
    - Assertive, blunt, and pretty arrogant
    - Occasionally very creative (within limits)
    - VERY loyal to friends, and even more so to family (had a sense of duty even at a young age)
    - Afraid of new things, and unwilling to step out of comfort zone
    - Tendency to take things personally
    - Lots and lots of Enneagram 1 characteristics (especially the need to make excuses for every single thing done wrong)
    - Easily embarrassed (e.g. "Crap! I should NOT have said that. SUCH a mistake!")
    - Prone towards outbursts of anger (sometimes involving hitting people**, but most of the time not)
    - Not so good at saying goodbyes, or apologizing to people
    - Tendency to accidentally offend people
    - Mature; often better at interacting with adults than with other kids*** and very good at sucking up to teachers (not intentionally sucking up to them, but being nice to them and getting on their good side, and as a result being a bit of a teachers pet and not as well-liked by fellow students for that exact reason).

    Etc. Can't think of anything else at the moment, but that should be good for starters

    *If a teacher spelled something incorrectly on the board, I would, on occasion, run up to the front while they weren't looking and correct their spelling. OR I would just raise my hand and correct them that way.
    **If I were a boy, I'm certain that I would have beat kids up if I were mad at them. If I weren't raised by such a nice family, I'm sure I would have been a bully.
    ***Adults were more likely to get my sense of humor
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

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