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Thread: Ask an ESTJ!

  1. #51
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    If you feel guilty from being arrogant and sharp-tongued is it because you hurt someone else or it goes against something in you personally?

    Delayed stuff? Like what? Big life decisions, knowing whether you got the job, what school you are accepted into etc, or little things too?

    Not yet come true dreams - like impatience to make them happen or is it being unhappy in your present station in life?

    Why do emotional people bother you? Is it that you don't know what to do, or that you think they are being babies about stuff and should suck it up, or that you think that what they are feeling is not worth getting upset about and they are wasting your time?

  2. #52
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Does your response to people being emotional around you vary depending on if they are your inner circle people or if they are more casual friends? If so how would you respond differently? If someone wants to bring up something to you but knows that they may cry in front of you which would make you feel uncomfortable would it work better for them to write it or would that seem like making it an even bigger deal?

    EJCC, does it bother you when teachers don't follow the exact course outline because you don't know what to expect, or are you okay with that sort of thing?

    I really found the nursing home thing you wrote interesting because that has also been my experience with the ESTJs I know. I have never felt that kind of discomfort, but I wonder if it has more to do with early and often exposure as a kid and into adulthood. Is it a matter of facing mortality? Depressing to see grownups going back to being more like children? Not knowing what to say to them? Do you think that if you had been accustomed to that environment earlier it would have made it less uncomfortable for you? I'm interested, because I often take my students to the local nursing home. We do a lot of talking before though about what to expect. We go over things that they could say, what to do when old ladies want to hug them, how to shake hands, picking out music that the patients would recognize and enjoy etc. We also talk about how some of the Alzheimer patients are really blunt and may even be insulting and why they act that way. I'm hoping that by doing this, it not only gives a performing opportunity, but that it generally increases their comfort level with unfamiliar people and makes it more normal for them. Maybe personality type plays into comfort level too though. That's something I hadn't considered.

    Do you feel quite comfortable walking into unfamiliar situations, or do you like to know ahead of time what to expect. With me for example, I want a chance to watch for a little bit before I jump into something. I don't have to be best at something, but I do want to feel that I won't embarrass myself either socially or otherwise (like at a sport etc). Most of the ESTJs I know are pretty smooth at faking their way along until they feel comfortable and I don't think are nearly as worried about social rejection.

    Do you like to try new kinds of food? The two ESTJs I know best are excellent cooks and they like to try all kinds of things. They also take great pride in opening up other people's palettes to new food that the person previously believed they hated (I now eat eggs and fish) by thinking of creative non-offensive ways to introduce them. I don't know if this is across the board or not.

    If you were having a group of people over for dinner, what number of people would you pick and why?

    Do you feel the need to keep your house very clean, or are there messy ESTJs too sometimes?

  3. #53
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Wicked Queen,

    What kinds of things do you write about? Are you reporting facts mostly, or drawing conclusions from the facts as well?

  4. #54
    inside the lines EJCC's Avatar
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    Welcome, WickedQueen! Yay for more ESTJs!!! Hugs!
    And I have a question for you, WQ: Do you agree with most of my answers? Are there any really important ones that you strongly disagree with?

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Does your response to people being emotional around you vary depending on if they are your inner circle people or if they are more casual friends? If so how would you respond differently? If someone wants to bring up something to you but knows that they may cry in front of you which would make you feel uncomfortable would it work better for them to write it or would that seem like making it an even bigger deal?
    I'm better around emotional people when they're in my inner circle. Instead of awkward-geekiness-"gotta run away now!!!" (i.e. how I am around emotional people that aren't in my inner circle), I become super-tough-"You can count on me no matter what!"-guardian. They can cry on my shoulder, I'll listen to whatever they have to say, I'll give advice if they need it. Mostly, I just hug them and stay quiet. That seems to help them, from my experience.
    If I didn't know them well and they had to bring up an emotional topic, I'd rather that they do it in writing. It would be less painful for both of us.

    EJCC, does it bother you when teachers don't follow the exact course outline because you don't know what to expect, or are you okay with that sort of thing?
    I really, really don't like it. I mean, if you're going to make a course outline, you're supposed to follow it, right? Otherwise it defeats the purpose. And it's not as much that I dislike not knowing what's coming. It's more that I would like teachers to do what they're supposed to do. God, that sounded bitchy and arrogant. Sorry!

    I really found the nursing home thing you wrote interesting because that has also been my experience with the ESTJs I know. I have never felt that kind of discomfort, but I wonder if it has more to do with early and often exposure as a kid and into adulthood. Is it a matter of facing mortality? Depressing to see grownups going back to being more like children? Not knowing what to say to them? Do you think that if you had been accustomed to that environment earlier it would have made it less uncomfortable for you?
    Oh, it's nothing nearly as nuanced as that (although the mortality thing DID make me fairly uncomfortable, albeit in a lesser way). It's a gut reaction. It's probably just how awkward it is. I'm sure that if I, for instance, had family that worked in a nursing home, and I visited them often, I would have no problem with it. But in my case, having almost no experience with it, it was very awkward and it was very hard for me to figure out what to do.

    I'm interested, because I often take my students to the local nursing home. We do a lot of talking before though about what to expect. We go over things that they could say, what to do when old ladies want to hug them, how to shake hands, picking out music that the patients would recognize and enjoy etc. We also talk about how some of the Alzheimer patients are really blunt and may even be insulting and why they act that way.
    That's a very good idea - especially giving them scripts to follow (essentially). That would definitely lessen the awkwardness. Also, better to get them started on it at a young age, because children adapt to new (/uncomfortable) situations easier. I was NOT a child when I had that experience.

    Do you feel quite comfortable walking into unfamiliar situations, or do you like to know ahead of time what to expect. With me for example, I want a chance to watch for a little bit before I jump into something. I don't have to be best at something, but I do want to feel that I won't embarrass myself either socially or otherwise (like at a sport etc). Most of the ESTJs I know are pretty smooth at faking their way along until they feel comfortable and I don't think are nearly as worried about social rejection.
    I always want to know what to expect, and what's expected of me, so that everything will work out the way it's supposed to. That's what makes me the most comfortable. If that information isn't given, I'll ask (just for my benefit, so I don't screw up). I ask a lot of questions in work situations, when I'm not the boss.
    If I look smooth when I'm doing something unfamiliar, I don't necessarily FEEL smooth. I dunno if all ESTJs are quick learners, but I try to be. That could be part of it. Also, once we have enough information to do the job, we DO the JOB, and we do it confidently and quickly. (BIG time generalization... but you know.)

    Do you like to try new kinds of food? The two ESTJs I know best are excellent cooks and they like to try all kinds of things. They also take great pride in opening up other people's palettes to new food that the person previously believed they hated (I now eat eggs and fish) by thinking of creative non-offensive ways to introduce them. I don't know if this is across the board or not.
    I love food! I love new and unusual food. However, I'm not in a big hurry to eat brains and eggs, or anything that would appear on "Bizarre Foods with Andrew Zimmern". (I'm also not a fan of gelatinous things. Tomato Aspic is my least favorite food in the world.) But the pickier eaters I know think I'm nuts for eating some of the things I eat, e.g. octopus, lutefisk... even if I'm only eating it to say that I tried it (which is why I mentioned lutefisk).
    The bolded part really strikes me, because I'm exactly the same way, but not with food - with music. I'm constantly introducing my friends to new music. I feel like, in another life, I would really enjoy working at (or possibly owning?) a record store.

    If you were having a group of people over for dinner, what number of people would you pick and why?
    I don't care, as long as I know all of them, and I know they'll interact with each other appropriately (and I have enough money/time to make food for them all). Preferably more than two people, though.

    Do you feel the need to keep your house very clean, or are there messy ESTJs too sometimes?
    I was reading something a while ago that said that perfectionists actually have messier work environments, because they don't distinguish between a small pile and a huge one. Once a small pile accumulates, they just let it go. That can be what my house is like, at its worst. It's an organized mess, though - I have to know where everything is. The key things are always organized perfectly - it's just, e.g, stacks of magazines and such, that make it messy.
    I always dust when it's necessary, though. If I see a cleaning problem that's easy to fix, I'll do it right away.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørrsken impersonating EJCC
    It's strange. I keep banning morons, but they keep signing up? What is this?
    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  5. #55
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    What about having no course outlines? Would that bother you? If several courses of action fulfill the course requirements, but a particular route seems to suit the class better after getting to know them, it seems to me that you would pick that. Would that upset the ESTJs or not?

    That's funny about the music thing - come to think of it, most of the ESTJs I have met are really into their music. Usually somewhat unexpected choices too for what I would have thought they'd like.

    How would an ESTJ crush manifest itself? What kind of flirting would they do?

    Do you develop a particular attachment to certain clothes, or feel guilty about parting with something before it is completely worn out?

    What do you think you have in common with ISTJs?

    What types are your friends? Do you pick a lot of fellow SJs? Do you usually become friends with introverts or extroverts?

    Do you think that many ESTJs are first borns (or first borns of that gender) in the family or only children?

    Do you care about what other people think of you? If so, in what sense? Obviously you want people at work to see you as trustworthy, responsible and reliable. What about outside of there?

    Why do you think many people view ESTJs so harshly? Are they reacting to unhealthy versions they have seen? I have also noticed that people react strongly to ENTJs and ENFJs. It must be the extroverted judging.

    Do you remember many of your teachers from your school career? I find it interesting that the ESTJs I know don't really remember most of their teachers, and yet quite a few end up becoming teachers. I think though that they like administrating more than teaching.

    Does administrating appeal more to ESTJs because it is a higher rung on the ladder or is it because they want things run more efficiently or is it because they specifically figure that implementing their ideas would make an important difference?

  6. #56
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    What do you think you have in common with ISTJs?

  7. #57
    inside the lines EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    What about having no course outlines? Would that bother you? If several courses of action fulfill the course requirements, but a particular route seems to suit the class better after getting to know them, it seems to me that you would pick that. Would that upset the ESTJs or not?
    It might annoy me, but not as much as having a course outline and not sticking to it. As long as you tell us in advance what we're going to learn throughout the year, and we learn all those things, I'm good.

    That's funny about the music thing - come to think of it, most of the ESTJs I have met are really into their music. Usually somewhat unexpected choices too for what I would have thought they'd like.
    Yeah, I still remember when I introduced myself on this site and I mentioned that my favorite musical genre is... 70's progressive rock (e.g. King Crimson)... and people were a bit surprised

    How would an ESTJ crush manifest itself? What kind of flirting would they do?
    I'll let Wicked Queen answer this one - I dunno if my experience is common.

    Do you develop a particular attachment to certain clothes, or feel guilty about parting with something before it is completely worn out?
    Generally, no. And if I do, it's brief. Even things I've had for a very long time, I end up forgetting about after a while.

    What do you think you have in common with ISTJs?
    That's a toughie! I don't know enough ISTJs. I have an ISTJ cousin, and she's like me only more bookish, more sulky/complaining, more serious (she shakes her head at my silly jokes), harder to convince of things(/less rational), quicker to give in to peer pressure, and darker (not only in her moods, but in her sense of humor; her jokes are pretty dark). Discounting those things, I feel like I have kind of a mind-meld going with her. I relate to her a LOT. She's like a more emo version of me just kidding.

    What types are your friends? Do you pick a lot of fellow SJs? Do you usually become friends with introverts or extroverts?
    My friends, to name a few types, are INTP, ENTP, ESFP, ISFP(?), INTJ, ESFJ and INFJ. Generally it doesn't matter to me whether somebody is an introvert or an extravert, as long as our conversations aren't too one-sided. (Even introverts can be chatty around their friends, after all.)

    Do you think that many ESTJs are first borns (or first borns of that gender) in the family or only children?
    Well, I'm an only child. But the other ESTJ I know is a youngest child. So I dunno.

    Do you care about what other people think of you? If so, in what sense? Obviously you want people at work to see you as trustworthy, responsible and reliable. What about outside of there?
    At work, it doesn't matter to me as much whether people like me. If they respect me, and they don't make things unpleasant, then it works. Better that interpersonal issues don't get in the way.
    Outside of work, yeah, I want to be liked. Around people I don't know, like I said before, there can be a lot of pressure on me to be charming and likeable. When my jokes fail over and over, or I have (what I would consider to be) a failed social excursion, I get insecure and introspective.

    Why do you think many people view ESTJs so harshly? Are they reacting to unhealthy versions they have seen? I have also noticed that people react strongly to ENTJs and ENFJs. It must be the extroverted judging.
    It's whatever gives ESTJs the tendency to want everyone to do what they want when they want in exactly the "right" way (and there is only one "right" way - our way). That's probably the E and the J. But seriously, go on any of the numerous SJ hate threads, and you'll find out. In fact, go to the thread where I made my very first post. Excellent examples there.

    Do you remember many of your teachers from your school career? I find it interesting that the ESTJs I know don't really remember most of their teachers, and yet quite a few end up becoming teachers. I think though that they like administrating more than teaching.
    I remember all my teachers. (But then again, I'm still a student.) I can't remember much about them, but I remember their names and the subjects they taught, and whether I liked the classes.

    Does administrating appeal more to ESTJs because it is a higher rung on the ladder or is it because they want things run more efficiently or is it because they specifically figure that implementing their ideas would make an important difference?
    You know how ESTJs can be incredibly bossy in their everyday lives, with essentially anyone they meet, because they want the rules to be enforced? Administrating is doing that for a living It's perfect for them/us - enforcing the rules without having to make the rules.
    Last edited by EJCC; 06-11-2009 at 10:20 PM. Reason: forgot to answer some of the questions
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørrsken impersonating EJCC
    It's strange. I keep banning morons, but they keep signing up? What is this?
    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  8. #58
    Senior Member WickedQueen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post

    Quote:
    As far as the put upon thing, one book I read said it is an SJ coping mechanism. I don't know if that's true or not. He even recognized he was doing it. He'd say, "I might act like I mind and complain, but I really don't mind doing such and such". For me the complaining negated any help being given and made me feel beholden and mad. One example would be on trips where we had more boys in his hotel room than girls in mine. He would invariably need to sleep on a cot while I had a bed. He would comment to coworkers and friends on how arduous the trip had been and about the discomforts of sleeping on a cot etc. I realized after a while that much of what he says is exaggerated to be much better or worse than it really is for the effect and almost as a way of boasting. He neither feels that things are as good or as bad as he might let on to others that he doesn't know well.


    Wow! I don't think I relate to this at all! Maybe I'm just weird.
    Yeah, I do that many times. Like when my boss gave me more task than usual, I would complain, but that doesn't mean I mind, I'm actually okay with that. I was just exaggerating.

  9. #59
    Senior Member WickedQueen's Avatar
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    Please forgive my bad english m_ _m

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    If you feel guilty from being arrogant and sharp-tongued is it because you hurt someone else or it goes against something in you personally?
    Because he/she gets sad or angry in response for my words. Most of the time I only give brief description of what I thought and I forgot that not all people could understand what am I talking about or take it fully logically. I forgot that people have feelings, so I just brag about things and the next thing I know, he/she get mad of me or becoming very sad and depressed. That's when I start to feel guilty and I wish I was just shut my mouth up.

    Delayed stuff? Like what? Big life decisions, knowing whether you got the job, what school you are accepted into etc, or little things too?
    Like late coming train, slow internet access, or someone promise me that he/she would do such things for me today, but they forgot or couldn't do it and they say "I'll do it later, tomorrow, or next week."

    Not yet come true dreams - like impatience to make them happen or is it being unhappy in your present station in life?
    I was planning to wrote a novel and finish it in the end of July, but I don't have much time and I haven't write much until now. It bothers me a lot. I'm afraid things won't go smoothly and I'm not able to finish it on schedule (the schedule that I made for myself, by the way).

    Why do emotional people bother you? Is it that you don't know what to do, or that you think they are being babies about stuff and should suck it up, or that you think that what they are feeling is not worth getting upset about and they are wasting your time?
    Yes, because I think they are being babies, exaggerating their own misery. I hate it, I think it's so lame.

  10. #60
    Senior Member WickedQueen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Wicked Queen,

    What kinds of things do you write about? Are you reporting facts mostly, or drawing conclusions from the facts as well?
    I write fiction-novels and I write articles for some magazines. Yes, I reporting facts mostly. I'm not really good in drawing conclusions from the facts, but I can if I have to.

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