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Thread: Ask an ESTJ!

  1. #491
    Let's make this showy! Array raz's Avatar
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    I love working with ESTJs. Communication is the most effortless with them. They're the one E that can get me out of my shell quickly while speaking my language.


  2. #492
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unique View Post
    How are you with other girls as an ESTJ?

    More girl friends or guy friends?
    An equal number of each, I think. I don't know what I'd do without guy friends, though. When I'm in groups of only girls for a long period of time, it gets overwhelming, and I just want to go hang out with some guys and watch a movie or talk about current events or something. (I have a fairly low tolerance for "girl talk"...) But on the other hand, I need to have girl friends, because... there are many topics that you can't talk to guys about. (Don't get the wrong idea here!) Plus, I find that I balance out girls better than I balance out guys. My "pal" relationships are with guys, generally, whereas I know three or four girls that I would date in a flash if I swung that way. (Ah, life as a T woman...)
    Quote Originally Posted by Charmain View Post
    I think my husband is an ESTJ. I'm wondering if ESTJ's and INFP's are a good match? We are happily married, but do get annoyed with each other as I'm sure all couples do. He is not much of a talker (about emotions and feelings) and I'm always wondering what he is thinking! Wish I could see in his head!
    What? You can't see into his head?? But you're an INFP! :eek: (just kidding. ) Seriously, though, when I've heard about ESTJ/INFP relationships, it's either amazing or absolutely horrible, without a lot of middle ground. It really depends on the person, though. There is no MBTI pairing that's universally great, or universally terrible. So, I dunno if that's a very good answer... but I hope it suited your needs.

    Good to know that you two get along, though! You have NO idea how many INFPs bitch about ESTJs on the interwebs. It gets frustrating.
    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    I love working with ESTJs. Communication is the most effortless with them. They're the one E that can get me out of my shell quickly while speaking my language.
    Aww. I wuv you guys too My cousin is an ISTJ, and we get along amazingly. Yeah, it's like a mind-meld or something. Which is surprising, since I hardly ever feel that sort of connection with people. Dunno if it's the same for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørrsken impersonating EJCC
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  3. #493
    Junior Member Array Charmain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post

    What? You can't see into his head?? But you're an INFP! :eek: (just kidding. ) Seriously, though, when I've heard about ESTJ/INFP relationships, it's either amazing or absolutely horrible, without a lot of middle ground. It really depends on the person, though. There is no MBTI pairing that's universally great, or universally terrible. So, I dunno if that's a very good answer... but I hope it suited your needs.

    Good to know that you two get along, though! You have NO idea how many INFPs bitch about ESTJs on the interwebs. It gets frustrating.
    LOL! Of course I THINK I can see into his head! But in reality I can't, now can I?

    Thanks for your explanation!

    I don't want to bitch about him. He is such a pillar of strength for me and he has a heart of gold! I just want more EMOTION!!!!! But then again - I am too emotional....

    I'll leave it there!


  4. #494
    Let's make this showy! Array raz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post

    Aww. I wuv you guys too My cousin is an ISTJ, and we get along amazingly. Yeah, it's like a mind-meld or something. Which is surprising, since I hardly ever feel that sort of connection with people. Dunno if it's the same for you.
    It's just that we're concrete also and able to take the cold bluntness that you dish out without any recoil. We both have tunnel vision toward the goals, which lends itself toward a lack of concern for the people around us.

    I work in retail. My supervisor is an INFJ. There's another supervisor that's an ESFJ, one that's ESTJ and the store manager is ENFJ. I can anger the INFJ quickly with my blunt controlling. The ESFJ fails at having a thick skin that can handle my criticism. The ENFJ is amazing at leading the store due to his type. He sucks at details but when it comes to being compassionate and seeing the big picture, he leaves me and the ESTJ in the dust.

    The ESTJ, however, I get along with amazingly. Neither of us take offense at anything customers say, and we don't give a shit how customers treat us. We're focused on the end goals. Whatever is necessary to reach the goal is what we do and we rarely complain unless someone is just being incompetent. When the INFJ in charge of me came to me with a problem I needed to work on, I went to the ESTJ for advice because she would explain how things worked to me in the detail and systematic way that I needed.


  5. #495
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    An equal number of each, I think. I don't know what I'd do without guy friends, though. When I'm in groups of only girls for a long period of time, it gets overwhelming, and I just want to go hang out with some guys and watch a movie or talk about current events or something. (I have a fairly low tolerance for "girl talk"...) But on the other hand, I need to have girl friends, because... there are many topics that you can't talk to guys about. (Don't get the wrong idea here!) Plus, I find that I balance out girls better than I balance out guys. My "pal" relationships are with guys, generally, whereas I know three or four girls that I would date in a flash if I swung that way. (Ah, life as a T woman...)
    Just thought I'd throw the question out there cause I was thinking about it for myself, it seems pretty even for me too though I'm the opposite I can't stand a lot of the "guy talk" that gets a little bit too meat head for my liking and have found girls more interested in intuitiveness even if they are not intuitive themselves heh

  6. #496
    Nickle Iron Silicone Array Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    I do NOT understand my ESTJ mother! Aargh!!!!
    Seriously, being on this site has helped me to remain calm when speaking to her, but I'm literally about to explode right now!! What the hell makes some ESTJs think that they know everything and have the right to rudely attempt to direct the lives of others or is it just my mother?

    My mother and I had an issue ago awhile back ago because she didn't want me to bring my then puppy to her immaculate McMansion. This weekend, I was planning on going home, and she told me that I could bring my dog. I called her just now to make sure that it was ok to crate the dog in the basement, and she says to me, "Let's get this clear, you're only bringing the dog because you feel as though you've matured enough to listen to and do what I think you need to with the dog." I was like, "What does that mean?" She says, "You know what I'm talking about and you know what I like and how I think. You're only bringing the dog to my house on the condition that you're going to take her out and crate her when I say." HUH!?! I calmly refused to agree to her statement, and asked her to specify again, what it was that she wanted me to do.

    My dog has been to her house twice, and never did a damn thing to her home. The dog has had to stay in the basement or the garage both times. I don't get where the hell she comes from with her statements about "maturity" and "listening" to her. It's like she's a broken record. She brings up stuff that I did when I was like, 10, and harps on it like it was yesterday. I have lived on my own since I was 18(except for a few months when I came home after screwing up my first year in college). I worked and loaned my way through college because she punished me for not doing it "her way". I owned my own home by 24, my own business in my early 20's, I mean, good gawd almighty....The women is utterly impossible to please for me, and it drives me sick! I don't know what she wants from me, asides from total compliance with whatever crap happens to spew from her lips. I ask her exactly what she wants from me concerning the dog one final time, and again she tells me I know, and then proceeds to hang up the phone on me. Seriously, the way she goes about interacting with me insults me, and it pisses me off to no end. Any tips? What can I do? What could be going through her head as she makes all these rude and insensitive demands?

    Oh, and yea. This is a rant. Sorry.
    There is a thinking stuff from which all things are made, and which, in its original state, permeates, penetrates, and fills the interspaces of the universe.

  7. #497
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    ^ Sympathy hug She is, without a doubt, an ESTJ with issues. Please, don't judge all ESTJs off of her We aren't all so passive-aggressive, anal-retentive and bitchy! But I digress.

    To answer your question from the beginning of the post: No, it's not just her. But it's also not ALL ESTJs. I'm guessing that male ESTJs wouldn't do that as much - I don't think I've ever heard the "You know what I'm talking about!!!" comment from a man. (Frankly, it pisses me off...)

    Now, for a possible explanation (and since I don't really understand your mother either - I think I'd need a whole lot more information that I don't necessarily want to ask you, in order to fully comprehend her thoughts on the matter): ESTJs, as well as ISTJs, because of our strong Si, have a tendency to remember really small things from a long time ago and think that everyone else remembers them too. I'm guessing that you did something a really long time ago that she thinks that you remember, and she's really pissed off about it, still... and that it involved a dog. And now she's so upset that all rationality that she once had (because, considering her dominant Te, she SHOULD usually be a logical person) is completely gone.

    Possible solution: Try to get her back to the logic realm, from the emotional realm. Be rational with her - show her that you can't do what she wants you to do unless she tells you. You can't read her mind, after all! For example: "Mom, I honestly don't know what you're referring to. And since I don't know, I can't possibly do what you want me to do. I'll gladly do what you want with the dog, if you tell me what it is that you want. So please, could you tell me again? I'm sorry I forgot." *insert i-am-your-sweetest-daughter smile here*

    Hopefully that'll work. Can't guarantee anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørrsken impersonating EJCC
    It's strange. I keep banning morons, but they keep signing up? What is this?
    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  8. #498
    Senior Member Array Two Point Two's Avatar
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    Ok, hi.

    I want to preface this with a few disclaimers:

    1) I know no ESTJs in real life that Im aware of, and my understanding of them comes entirely from MBTI theory - and what I've seen tends to be a bit dismissive or even negative in tone. I'm also probably guilty of not having investigated this type thoroughly enough.

    2) I have not read this thread. Normally, I try to at least skim a thread to see whats been said, but 50 pages is too much. So, if my questions have already been addressed, please forgive me and let me know.

    Now that that's done, my question is this: What do you love about being an ESTJ? What is awesome about being an ESTJ?

    Because I think being an INTJ is awesome. And I imagine that all types must enjoy being their type, and must have a sense of what it is that they most fundamentally identify with in their type and why fundamentally identifying with that/those component/s of their type is soenjoyable, important, sufficient, and, well, awesome.

    And, with some types that arent so far removed from mine, I can kind of understand what might be awesome about being that type. But, in the case of SJs, ESs and EJs, I find it a little bit difficult to really get a sense of what that might be. ESTJs and, even moreso, ESFJs, are the two types that I find it most difficult to really understand.

    Sohelp?

  9. #499
    Nickle Iron Silicone Array Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    ^ Sympathy hug She is, without a doubt, an ESTJ with issues. Please, don't judge all ESTJs off of her We aren't all so passive-aggressive, anal-retentive and bitchy! But I digress.
    I'm trying.**sigh** And I know you aren't all like that. I haven't had great experiences, but I keep an open mind. I appreciate the .

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    To answer your question from the beginning of the post: No, it's not just her. But it's also not ALL ESTJs. I'm guessing that male ESTJs wouldn't do that as much - I don't think I've ever heard the "You know what I'm talking about!!!" comment from a man. (Frankly, it pisses me off...)
    Yea, I don't have that great of a time with STJs when they're in positions of command, or if they feel as though they should be. I'm sure it's not just her either. It's her+me.**double sigh**

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    ESTJs, as well as ISTJs, because of our strong Si, have a tendency to remember really small things from a long time ago and think that everyone else remembers them too.
    So true. Her being detailed oriented and me being a generalist creates many of the issues we have. Although, it's not that I don't remember the details so much as it is that I don't find them to be relevant once they're old and stale in my mind. I move on from things usually. I prefer to not keep tabs on people and what they have or haven't done, so often I actually forget a lot of the ugly things people have done to me until someone brings it up.

    When we really get into arguments and I do bring up old things that she's done to me(cause a friend or something has brought it to my attention), she pulls the "don't disrespect me" card. What frustrates me most about her is that she seems to have no sense of justice or fairness in relationships(and not just with me). I don't mind her remembering old things, but when she remembers, she only remembers her version and could careless about anyone else's. I feel as though very little of what I say is actually valid to her. Actually, I feel totally invalidated by her very often(told her this years ago). At this point, I don't need her validation(like I used to as a kid), but if we're going to have a healthy relationship, it's something I want. Do ESTJs find it difficult to validate or relate to how other's feel, even when they've explained it?

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I'm guessing that you did something a really long time ago that she thinks that you remember, and she's really pissed off about it, still... and that it involved a dog. And now she's so upset that all rationality that she once had (because, considering her dominant Te, she SHOULD usually be a logical person) is completely gone.
    Yes, I did do something a long time ago(10+ years). You bring up a very good point. This may have a lot to do with it all; although, her anger about it is completely and entirely irrational imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Possible solution: Try to get her back to the logic realm, from the emotional realm. Be rational with her - show her that you can't do what she wants you to do unless she tells you. You can't read her mind, after all! For example: "Mom, I honestly don't know what you're referring to. And since I don't know, I can't possibly do what you want me to do. I'll gladly do what you want with the dog, if you tell me what it is that you want. So please, could you tell me again? I'm sorry I forgot." *insert i-am-your-sweetest-daughter smile here*
    Essentially, this is exactly what I did as my blood boiled and my hair stood on end. She then hung up on me, which was kinda a relief because I was about to either implode or explode. I'm glad another ESTJ finds this to be an acceptable approach though.

    In the past, I've tried to "rationalize" with her by countering her, which never works. What I didn't do this time is butter her up. I have noticed if I make completely ridiculous nonsensical comments, she softens up a bit sometimes. The "sweetest daughter" comment may have worked wonders, but I'm so mentally and emotionally exhausted after she goes on yelling and screaming that I just want to cuss her out. In contrast, when buttering her up doesn't work, she says I'm being "disrespectful" by being lighthearted when she's being serious.

    And on disrespectful. I noticed that a lot of STJs use the word "respect" a lot. What does respect mean? I mean, I have my own thoughts, but it's nothing near what my mother has told me hers are. Ultimately, I think we want the same thing from each other. When we're out and about, we are great friends, but what keeps me from being able to fully trust her friendship is that she pulls the authority card whenever it's convenient to her.

    Thanks for the response by the way. I feel a lot better at this hour.
    There is a thinking stuff from which all things are made, and which, in its original state, permeates, penetrates, and fills the interspaces of the universe.

  10. #500
    Iron Maiden Array fidelia's Avatar
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    I think pecking order matters a lot to ESTJs. Because they respect the chain of command and defer to it, it really bothers them when others don't. I've also found that challenging an idea is more often interpreted as challenging them (maybe in the same way that Ts playing the devil's advocate when we tell them about our horrible day could be interpreted as discounting our perceptions and supporting anyone else but us). Because she is your mother, she feels she has more experience and higher authority than you do perhaps - hence the frequent usage of the word "respect".

    I think also that ESTJs tend to view things in more black and white terms, so they are less likely than you to see several possibilities as being right and workable. Your mother feels like she is doing you a favour in telling you how to do things the right way, and you are not only ignoring her authority to say so, but also ignoring truth itself!

    I have really grown to appreciate the ESTJs I know, but there are times when these differences can make it hard to get on smoothly.

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