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Thread: Ask an ESTJ!

  1. #441
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fill View Post
    Do you have issues with trusting people's opinions- or people in general? I think she's realizing I'm one to be trusted, but it's a very slow process. I suppose I can't complain as I'm the same way in many aspects.
    If someone's opinion is very different from the norm, and/or my own opinion, then I simply won't trust it unless proper evidence/logic is provided. With people in general... it depends. Do you mean emotional trust? If so, then yeah, it takes a little while. But if you prove yourself to her, i.e. if you show her that you're the sort of person who CAN be trusted and opened up to, then she'll do it, when she needs to. Don't worry too much about it, if you can help it.

    and it's nice enough to
    make a man
    weep, but I don't
    weep, do
    you?


    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  2. #442
    Rainy Day Woman Array MDP2525's Avatar
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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    To Fidelia and MDP2525: I'm really sorry... both of your situations suck. I know you're the ones who are supposed to be asking the questions, but do you think that ALL ESTJs are inherently selfish? Or have you both just had bad times with unhealthy ESTJs?

    I get to answer a question?

    No. I would never say that ALL ESTJ's are inherently selfish. Nor do I believe it. I can only speak for the one I know. I'm sure I've interacted with ESTJ's in real world situations being there is so many of them. In fact, I think my boss is one. I have had no problems with them. 1) Logical thinkers? Check. 2) Get it done attitude? Check. 3) Does it make sense? Yes or no? Check 4) If you stand your ground and have logical reasons why you think they're wrong - they seem to listen! Check. How can I NOT like that? lol.

    But working together and a romance are very different things. My ESTJ may not have answered my questions but he still communicates with me. I can't fault that. I can't control it. I can just take his non-answer as an answer and continue what was a good friendship regardless.

    However, I think ESTJ's can rationalize and compartmentalize their emotions so well that they really almost live a double life. One where they are responsible, good friends, charming, and all that. The other life isn't seen by many except closest to their hearts, but when it does need to show itself, their emotions can be so underdeveloped from being put away layer upon layer for so long that it is almost traumatic for them to deal with.

    To use an analogy: Their emotions become like a messy closet. Ever present but ignored completely when the door is shut. Open the door up and it's an overwhelming sight for the ESTJ, who, when faced with such a mess doesn't know where to find anything and can't identify anything. It's much easier to shut the door and be looking at a nice, clean room. Ya know?

    Anyway, that's what I see in this particular ESTJ. I consider him a bit unhealthy - yes. lol. But overall a genuine and good person.
    ~Live and learn from fools and from sages~




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  3. #443
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    In the every day world, certain people go to work to make a little money on which to sustain themselves and their family yet I've noticed those same people posting on a regular basis every day in this and other forums. I mean they write as if they have nothing better to do than to dream up highly imaginative and top quality posts. My question is, do you have even a vague idea how they get away with this? I mean it's as if they all have lots of money hidden in the top drawer of their dressers and therefore don't have to do anything but visit with others in the forum via the written word. Yeah, so how can they do this? Who are these folks?

  4. #444
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    @ MDP2525: Awww!!! That was an excellent answer. Everything you said makes sense. I REALLY relate to the closet analogy. (It's especially good, considering that that's how an ESTJ would handle a messy closet in real life, probably... ) Thank you VERY much for answering.

    @ bcvcdc: I HAVE thought about this (because I'm really not capable of posting here like they do), and the answer I came up with is this: Many of them must have jobs that involve them sitting at computers, e.g. engineering, secretarial work, etc. So, therefore, not only can they post at home, but they can post on the job.

    and it's nice enough to
    make a man
    weep, but I don't
    weep, do
    you?


    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  5. #445
    Iron Maiden Array fidelia's Avatar
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    MDP2525 has it exactly. I couldn't say it right, but that's it!

  6. #446
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Guy View Post
    You know, being productive is only useful if you can finish your tasks on time. There is no point being productive once the deadlines have passed.

    Regarding your question about how much more productive is someone who favours the Judging function, maybe we can compare our schedules.

    I have 15 hours of classes, 10.5 hours of part time job, and 5 hours of volunteer and extra-curricular activities every week. I finish all my readings and assignments before every class and get straight A's. I also party every weekend and complete all my house choirs such as cleaning the apartment, getting groceries, repairing damages and what not.
    Flaunting credentials isn't really on topic, I know ESTJs accomplishing a lot less than yourself but I'm glad you're doing well. I'd also like to keep this talk about personalities and not get personal because its relatively unreliable anyway

    Firstly, are you implying that Perceiving types miss deadlines more than Judging types? This simply isn't true and no website or source that I know of claims this, there are certainly claims that Ps "cram" everything just before deadlines though

    So are you really annoyed at people who keep options open till the last min? (and there are logical reasons to do so as I've explained) or are you more annoyed at people who miss deadlines?

    Actually "missing" the deadlines isn't really something we can pin on a certain personality

    Though there are definitely different styles of meeting a deadline

    I would think that as long as the deadline is met all is well and I don't see P/J having anything to do with that

    I really can't see one style accomplishing more than the other some very rich men are perceiving types take Donald Trump for an artisan example

    I think it's narrow minded to think that J/P has anything to do with how productive or accomplished someone can be and most Ps that are accomplished would say their perceiving played a large part in their brilliance

  7. #447
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    ^ I really think that the sort of miscommunication that I'm seeing here is because of J superiority complexes. I'm guilty of this as well. Even when you, Unique, tried to explain to me some examples of times when being a Perceiver would be more useful, and even when I saw your points and understood them, I simply didn't think that having those qualities was important. I know that they are, but my priorities - i.e. the things that I value - are not P traits. (Pardon me if I'm repeating myself... I honestly don't remember what I said to you earlier... )

    I'm not trying to turn this into a debate. I'm simply showing you my (ESTJ) perspective.

    (Oh, and when I mentioned that we live in a J society, I meant the western world, i.e. North America and western Europe. Of course the entire world isn't J. I cited a country as an example of when they're not, didn't I?)

    and it's nice enough to
    make a man
    weep, but I don't
    weep, do
    you?


    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  8. #448
    Iron Maiden Array fidelia's Avatar
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    Re the messy closet analogy - I think it also helps explain why it is so distressing to an ESTJ when someone else insists on opening up their own closet and dragging things out that mess up the ESTJ's whole room and which the ESTJ doesn't know what to do with. Or when they decide they need some article out of the ESTJ's closet and the ESTJ has to open it up and be reminded of all the stuff in there. I can see how it would truly be distressing.

    On the contrary, as an INFJ, I like getting everything into its proper place and then I can quit worrying about reopening the closet. Until then, it niggles away at me and I keep saying, "But what about this? Where does this go?" which drives the other person nuts. I think you guys are more like that about your physical surroundings, but not your emotional ones. For me, I don't notice my physical surroundings nearly as much (unless something is pointed out) but am very aware of anything out of place in my emotional surroundings.

    That's part of the reason I think we could make such a good team as long as we understand each other's perspectives.

  9. #449
    Rainy Day Woman Array MDP2525's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Re the messy closet analogy - I think it also helps explain why it is so distressing to an ESTJ when someone else insists on opening up their own closet and dragging things out that mess up the ESTJ's whole room and which the ESTJ doesn't know what to do with. Or when they decide they need some article out of the ESTJ's closet and the ESTJ has to open it up and be reminded of all the stuff in there. I can see how it would truly be distressing.

    On the contrary, as an INFJ, I like getting everything into its proper place and then I can quit worrying about reopening the closet. Until then, it niggles away at me and I keep saying, "But what about this? Where does this go?" which drives the other person nuts. I think you guys are more like that about your physical surroundings, but not your emotional ones. For me, I don't notice my physical surroundings nearly as much (unless something is pointed out) but am very aware of anything out of place in my emotional surroundings.

    That's part of the reason I think we could make such a good team as long as we understand each other's perspectives.
    Yup. To continue the analogy, If you're asking them to pull something out of the closet I think what upsets them most is that they don't even know where to look for it. So they feel helpless. I mean, in order to do what you request of them they have to take EVERYTHING out, not just one thing, then catalog it, then put it back in order. THEN they can help you with your request. All or nothing with them, I think.
    ~Live and learn from fools and from sages~




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  10. #450
    Senior Member Array kathara's Avatar
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    Ok, my question. How do you view INTPs? Are they charming or annoying creatures?

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