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Thread: Ask an ESTJ!

  1. #31
    Senior Member Into It's Avatar
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    It isn't right because "that's how it's always been done," is it? Please tell me it isn't! There's always a better way, right?
    An inscription above the gate to Hell:
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  2. #32
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Do you go though life feeling "normal"?
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  3. #33

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    What do you personally think of perceiving types?

  4. #34
    lords of summer EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Into It View Post
    It isn't right because "that's how it's always been done," is it? Please tell me it isn't! There's always a better way, right?
    LOL! I dunno if there's ALWAYS a better way, but if, during an argument of new-idea-vs-traditional-idea, the new idea person can PROVE to me that it will work better, then I'm fine with it. As long as it gets done effectively

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Do you go though life feeling "normal"?
    Interesting question. I think it depends on my mood. Usually, I'm secure and emotionally healthy enough to not think about my normalcy (or lack thereof), but if I'm in a weird mood (as mentioned in my last post), then I might have a moment where I go "WHY AREN'T YOU LIKE OTHER PEOPLE???" But that usually goes away pretty quickly.
    I guess that ESTJs aren't really introspective enough to think about things like that very often, but if an ESTJ were an insecure person, then they might think about it more often. So it probably depends on the ESTJ.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unique View Post
    What do you personally think of perceiving types?
    I don't understand them. At all. I have loads of xxxP friends, but when it comes to, you know, issues of being on time, or not living as structured a life, I can't relate at all. I try, but I can't think of any reason why doing things ON TIME wouldn't be a high priority! :steam: Which is one reason why my one ENTP friend is such an enigma. I've just gotten to the point where I think "Just let her be. She gets the job done, so whatever methods she uses are okay in the end. Try not to obsess about it..."
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  5. #35
    ♪♫♪♫♪♫ luminous beam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    The bolded is the main issue. And no, I didn't say it was parasital, but I wanted to really badly! I'll keep trying, but there's only so many ways you can present something in a logical manner only to find your partner essentially sticking her fingers in her ears and saying "LALALA." Ultimatums are always a terrible idea because they can cause resentment and I don't want that. I don't mind her relationship with her mom as long as it doesn't negatively impact mine, but I know it will. I'll try to bring it up again at an opportune moment. Thank you so much for your help! We need more ESTJs! You're so underrepresented.
    Well jock, i know you came in here to ask our ESTJ friend a Q, but I have a few xSTJ very close people in my life and I couldn't help but analyze your situation a bit and compare how your gf is acting/reacting to how my close xSTJ friends and family would act. Your gf is obviously very attached to her mother, not necessarily because she has to be (she is financially independent of her despite them living together), but because she wants to be. It seems like she values her relationship with her mother very highly, and to be honest, I can see anything and anyone that tries to get in between that losing. It's also apparent to me that you don't necessarily steem your parents as much as she does or that you're anywhere as close to them in the vicinity of calling them your best friend, which makes it extremely hard to comprehend or accept such a relationship.
    Anyhow, the point is that she got very upset and took it very personal because her relationship w/her mother is crucial to her life at the moment, for whatever personal reason she has that you may, or may not know about. It would help us understand the extent of how "parasitical" you feel her mother is if you'd offer some examples as to what type of decisions and things she is included on. I believe the approach that you should take will have to be based upon specifics. Her mother is staying in the picture but you can compromise on privacy w/certain case scenarios.

  6. #36
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I'd have to agree with luminous beam about that. Family is important to a lot of SJs. Your gf is also only 21. If you had a family already, some of your concerns would be really understandable, but I wonder if since your lesser need for family/friends to fulfill a huge role in your life makes this more difficult for you to understand. Is the issue knowing whether she would pick you or her mother when it came down to it? There are very valid issues of loyalty that need to be present when you are trying to make a life together. Those problems are more an issue though if you are in it for the long haul. If she's 21, I'm guessing that you guys aren't talking marriage yet. Is her mother doing something that is harming your relationship, other than your girlfriend being close to her?

  7. #37
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    ECJJ

    Is procrastination ever an issue with ESTJs? The ones I know seem to be pretty snappy about getting things done. Is there ever an exception to that?

    Do you ever make decisions too quickly and then regret them? I have read about that a few times on the ESTJ profile, but wonder what kind of situations that would be likely to happen in. ESTJs that I know don't seem to be the kind to impulsively run off to Vegas and get married on a whim.

    If you were going to start a conversation with someone, what would it be likely to be about?

    How do you decide who you are going to admit into your inner circle of people in your life? Is it dependent on time, or mostly the qualities they have? If they're in, are they all the way in, or do you have different rooms within your inner circle depending on what security the person has cleared?

    Would you be friends with someone that you knew was dishonest, hypocritical or had some other deep character flaw as long as they hadn't personally done anything to you?

    Who would you consider a friend - someone you do things with, someone you say hello to/share a class with, someone you work with, someone you talk to frequently, someone you have a lot of history with or ???

    Would you say that you have more respect for people's competence based on their credentials or on the working knowledge they demonstrate?

    When you discuss a problem with someone, are you looking for advice, or just telling them about the problem? (I'm wondering if that is a male/female thing or more of an F/T thing).

    What criteria make you decide whether you would trust someone with responsibility or some kind of a job/project or not?

    Do you consciously seek out people who are more open to your way of doing things, are more easy going etc or do they find you?

    What kind of recognition would be the most rewarding for you? What is the best kind of compliment to you?

  8. #38
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Sorry, there's more!

    Why do ESTJs seem to fear the worst? Is it their way of being ever prepared for any situation? For example, one co-worker used to document on his calendar what dates and times the water truck delivered water to the tank (we live in the country) just in case(!) the water guy screwed up sometime!!! He didn't even have history of problems with the water guy being late or not showing up! My ESTJ always was convinced that there would absolutely be no jobs when he wanted to leave here and that he would need to spend a year teaching in China or go without work and use up his savings when he left here! He was sure that because stocks were down, it would wreak financial havoc because it didn't make sense to rent and he wouldn't be able to buy a house without losing tons of money that was invested. He was quite sure that he wouldn't get the job he was applying for (the first he tried, I might add) despite being well prepared, well qualified and getting glowing references (he got the job). Is it truly reassuring to worry over hypothetical situations that may never come to be so that you are prepared, or is it more of a neurotic response to not knowing what will happen?

    Also, I have noticed some ESTJs act very put upon about doing things even if they had always planned to and did not find them any particular problem. Is this a way of asking for thanks? I really took it personally at first and tried not to inconvenience them or to alter the situation to be less of a problem and they still kept complaining. I expressed thanks frequently and in a heart felt way. What should I have done?

    I tend to try to make people I care about feel appreciated through cards, their favourite treat/meal from the grocery store, and little presents. My ESTJ would rarely acknowledge or comment that he had even received them. I finally became frustrated and stopped giving him written thank yous etc because it felt like a personal rejection of me and anything I could offer. When it came up one time, he said that it "made him feel awkward and he wasn't sure what to say". He also was very reluctant to accept help as well as expertise in any area from me, although he was happy to give it without any sense of obligation. Does this have more to do with type or with the individual. How would you best make an ESTJ feel appreciated and loved?

  9. #39
    lords of summer EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
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    Is procrastination ever an issue with ESTJs? The ones I know seem to be pretty snappy about getting things done. Is there ever an exception to that?
    I'm so glad you asked this question! We definitely do procrastinate, but only with things that we REALLY don't want to do. For instance, I'll have something really irritating on my "to-do" list for the day, and I'll think "Oh, I'll do the easier things first", and then I'll do the easier things, and then I'll think "Oh, I'll save it for last", and then I finish everything else, and then I go "Oh, it can wait until tomorrow"... and the cycle goes on

    Do you ever make decisions too quickly and then regret them? I have read about that a few times on the ESTJ profile, but wonder what kind of situations that would be likely to happen in. ESTJs that I know don't seem to be the kind to impulsively run off to Vegas and get married on a whim.
    LOL on that last part! But to answer your question, after I make a decision (even if it's very quick), I generally don't look back. What's done is done. An exception to that might be my tendency to impulse buy at CD stores... but I get that unfortunate habit from my INTP dad

    If you were going to start a conversation with someone, what would it be likely to be about?
    Hm. I dunno. If it's someone I don't know, I might start it by complimenting their clothing, or something like that. Usually, at parties, when I enter a room, I wander the room listening to the different conversations that are going on, and I jump into one of them (but obviously only when they're impersonal in nature, e.g. something about politics). I don't like small talk at ALL - it's so fake. I'd rather find something substantive to talk about.

    How do you decide who you are going to admit into your inner circle of people in your life? Is it dependent on time, or mostly the qualities they have? If they're in, are they all the way in, or do you have different rooms within your inner circle depending on what security the person has cleared?
    For the first part: it depends on whether I trust them (with what? I dunno), and whether I feel comfortable enough around them to tell them my innermost thoughts and such. In detail: with friendly acquaintances and people I'm just getting to know (i.e. the people outside of the inner circle), I always feel the need to be funny and/or clever all the time. I can't just relax and ask normal questions. (Important note: this is not an act! You're still seeing the "real me" at this stage.) Once I can relax around you, and just be near you without quoting movies at you and such, THAT's when you know you're in.
    For the second part: There are different rooms - you're right. There are people I can relax around and hang out with all the time, but that I don't feel comfortable being emotional around. (These are most of my friends.) Then there are people I can get choked up around. Then there's my parents. Those are the rooms.

    Would you be friends with someone that you knew was dishonest, hypocritical or had some other deep character flaw as long as they hadn't personally done anything to you?
    I could be friendly with them, but they'd NEVER get in my inner circle (unless they redeemed themselves somehow).

    Who would you consider a friend - someone you do things with, someone you say hello to/share a class with, someone you work with, someone you talk to frequently, someone you have a lot of history with or ???
    I would call a friend someone I'd be okay going out to lunch with. Not necessarily in my inner circle, but someone who I know would listen to me, and who I would enjoy listening to.

    Would you say that you have more respect for people's competence based on their credentials or on the working knowledge they demonstrate?
    Definitely their working knowledge. Credentials mean less in many cases. I am not one of those people who would go "(S)he's good... but (S)HE went to Harvard law school!" That feels elitist to me. It'll always come down to who's the most competent. That's fairer.

    When you discuss a problem with someone, are you looking for advice, or just telling them about the problem? (I'm wondering if that is a male/female thing or more of an F/T thing).
    I'm ALWAYS asking for advice. I wouldn't discuss it with them if it was solved, or if I knew how to solve it! It drives me nuts when people do that to me, because I always try to give them advice, and they never want it, and I go "Well why did you ASK me then???" So, it's probably F/T

    What criteria make you decide whether you would trust someone with responsibility or some kind of a job/project or not?
    They would have to have proven themselves in my eyes. Maybe I saw them at work on some project and took note of their work ethic, maybe someone I trust recommended them to me... something like that.

    Do you consciously seek out people who are more open to your way of doing things, are more easy going etc or do they find you?
    Do you mean at work, or in friendship?

    What kind of recognition would be the most rewarding for you? What is the best kind of compliment to you?
    I'll be honest - when I read the first question, I was stumped. So I asked a close friend: "Hey, since you know me so well, what kind of recognition would I like the most?" And he gave a really accurate answer: that I appreciate recognition the most when I'm being ranked among others, when I know who's better than me and who I'm better than.
    The second question was easier to answer. I like compliments that specify how consistent/reliable I am. For instance, it's nice enough when someone goes "Good job today!", but it's SO much better when they say "Good job today - you know, you do a good job EVERY day."
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  10. #40
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Oops EJCC - sorry about that. I couldn't check back. Sometimes there's a quick reply option where I can still re-read the posts and other times after I log in I can only see the blank message screen and nothing else. Do you know how I can change that? Also, I'm not sure how to use the quote option. Do you highlight it first and then press quote, or do you go into your own message or ...?

    I found your answers all very interesting and many of them really rang true with what I've seen around me. I have a sneaking suspicion though that if I asked many ESTJs, they wouldn't have been able to come up with clear answers like that. What has made you interested in type and reflective enough to even want to help us out this way?

    I especially found the compliment thing interesting in terms of teaching students. What is a compliment to one type wouldn't be to another. I have no interest really in either where I rank in relation to others (well, not at the bottom, but...) or in someone telling me that I am reliable and so I wouldn't ever think to compliment someone about that. However, from the SJs I know, I think that does matter a lot.

    I suppose that the ability to not look back once a decision is made (good or bad) is part of what makes you people good at leading decisively and making tough decisions. It took me years of doing report cards before I quit agonizing at night over what general letter grade I had given some Grade 5 kid for the term! I can't imagine not going back over your life and thinking about what you might have done the same and what you would have changed. It's funny because my mum and I (she's also an N) were discussing exactly that the other day and concluded that some people must not, although neither of us could keep from doing that if we tried!

    I'm sorry to bombard you with questions, but it is so rare to find an ESTJ to ask, that it seems that I need to seize the day! Thanks!

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