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Thread: Ask an ESTJ!

  1. #2491
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eilonwy View Post
    My INTP boyfriend and I (INFJ) have started going out with a couple that he knows, an ESTP husband and an unknown type wife. INTP boyfriend and unknown type wife have similar interests and enjoy talking shop with each other. I have enough similar interests to be able to enjoy listening to their conversation; however, I feel that ESTP husband's interests are not being included. I know of three of his interests: the Civil War, certain old movies and TV shows, and The Walking Dead. Unfortunately, I'm not knowledgeable enough in any of those three areas to hold up my end of a conversation, but I am interested in all of them. In what ways could I start and sustain a conversation with him about his interests?
    People love to nerd out about their interests, so I'd suggest asking him questions to start, and letting him go off on it for a while (since you find it interesting). Then turn it into a conversation by engaging the subject as he talks to/at you.

    and it's nice enough to
    make a man
    weep, but I don't
    weep, do
    you?


    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  2. #2492
    Vulnerability Array Eilonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    People love to nerd out about their interests, so I'd suggest asking him questions to start, and letting him go off on it for a while (since you find it interesting). Then turn it into a conversation by engaging the subject as he talks to/at you.
    Sorry about typing ESTP instead of ESTJ.

    Do I need to be very direct in my questions? I tried to segue into a conversation about the civil war by bringing up a recent conversation I had with my bro-in-law about the civil war. That got a response, but then fizzled out pretty fast.
    Johari / Nohari

    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

  3. #2493
    Vulnerability Array Eilonwy's Avatar
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    See? This recent exchange is a good example of a fizzled conversation. What am I doing wrong? I see ESTJs here expounding with other members. I am successful in conversations (more in real life than here). So, what is off?
    Johari / Nohari

    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

  4. #2494
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eilonwy View Post
    Sorry about typing ESTP instead of ESTJ.
    Wow -- I don't know why I didn't suspect that it was a typo. Maybe because it was a typo several times in the same post. Either way, the last post I made definitely had an undertone of, "I don't know why she's asking this here, but whatever"

    Quote Originally Posted by Eilonwy View Post
    Do I need to be very direct in my questions? I tried to segue into a conversation about the civil war by bringing up a recent conversation I had with my bro-in-law about the civil war. That got a response, but then fizzled out pretty fast.
    I'm not entirely sure how this is type-related, which is how I was able to answer that question regardless of type in my last post. That being said, I'll explain my reasoning just in case it is type-related. If someone asked me about my interests and it seemed like an obvious attempt to just check off a box -- like the box marked "ask them how school is going", "ask them how their wife is doing", etc -- then it would register as small talk and not as a good conversation starter. Especially if the person looks like they're trying too hard to be interested, and aren't actually interested.

    So, I suppose the solution would be to ask questions in such a way that it's clear that you're actually interested? Or to ask in the company of other interested parties. I might hesitate to talk about my interests if only the person who was asking seemed interested, and everyone else seemed bored.

    Alternately, maybe he just wasn't interested in talking about it, even though he's interested in the topic. It's hard to know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eilonwy View Post
    See? This recent exchange is a good example of a fizzled conversation. What am I doing wrong? I see ESTJs here expounding with other members. I am successful in conversations (more in real life than here). So, what is off?
    It didn't fizzle -- I just needed time to think about how to reply! No worries.

    and it's nice enough to
    make a man
    weep, but I don't
    weep, do
    you?


    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!
    Likes Eilonwy liked this post

  5. #2495
    Vulnerability Array Eilonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I'm not entirely sure how this is type-related, which is how I was able to answer that question regardless of type in my last post. That being said, I'll explain my reasoning just in case it is type-related. If someone asked me about my interests and it seemed like an obvious attempt to just check off a box -- like the box marked "ask them how school is going", "ask them how their wife is doing", etc -- then it would register as small talk and not as a good conversation starter. Especially if the person looks like they're trying too hard to be interested, and aren't actually interested.

    So, I suppose the solution would be to ask questions in such a way that it's clear that you're actually interested? Or to ask in the company of other interested parties. I might hesitate to talk about my interests if only the person who was asking seemed interested, and everyone else seemed bored.

    Alternately, maybe he just wasn't interested in talking about it, even though he's interested in the topic. It's hard to know.
    I may be generalizing based on too little personal evidence, but it seems to me that there are certain categories of interests in which the SJs I've known are very well-versed. Even though I perceive myself as interested in the same subject, I am more of a generalizer, and I feel like that comes across, sooner or later, as not interested to the same degree, which then comes across as small talk. If I try to explain it from a typology perspective, I think it would involve Si/Fi details vs Ni/Ti details, where my Ti falls behind because of its tert position and I'm left with my Ni vaguery.

    I watched and liked a lot of the same old TV shows that he did, but he remembers character and plot details and I have vague feeling memories, so I feel I have nothing to contribute to keep the conversation interesting to him, even though the conversation is interesting to me.

    It didn't fizzle -- I just needed time to think about how to reply! No worries.
    Ok. What I got from this is that I need to be mindful of our different processing times in different areas and not jump to conclusions.
    Johari / Nohari

    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

  6. #2496
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eilonwy View Post
    I may be generalizing based on too little personal evidence, but it seems to me that there are certain categories of interests in which the SJs I've known are very well-versed. Even though I perceive myself as interested in the same subject, I am more of a generalizer, and I feel like that comes across, sooner or later, as not interested to the same degree, which then comes across as small talk. If I try to explain it from a typology perspective, I think it would involve Si/Fi details vs Ni/Ti details, where my Ti falls behind because of its tert position and I'm left with my Ni vaguery.

    I watched and liked a lot of the same old TV shows that he did, but he remembers character and plot details and I have vague feeling memories, so I feel I have nothing to contribute to keep the conversation interesting to him, even though the conversation is interesting to me.
    So, what is it that you enjoy talking about, w/r to those things, if not the details? Give me an example. There has to be somewhere you two can meet halfway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eilonwy View Post
    Ok. What I got from this is that I need to be mindful of our different processing times in different areas and not jump to conclusions.
    In fairness, some of it was also that I forgot to reply. At first I went "I need time to think about this", then I set it aside, then I forgot about it -- and it had been processed by the time you reminded me.

    and it's nice enough to
    make a man
    weep, but I don't
    weep, do
    you?


    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  7. #2497
    Vulnerability Array Eilonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    So, what is it that you enjoy talking about, w/r to those things, if not the details? Give me an example. There has to be somewhere you two can meet halfway.
    I enjoy the concepts, especially as those concepts relate to humanity in general. I enjoy hearing the details, but I don't retain them.

    He told me about the civil war art he's acquired. He told me about the significance of certain hats and uniforms. I remember he told me that, but I don't remember the significance itself. I remember that there's something about a particular school, but that's all I remember--no details. He mentioned the artist several times, but I couldn't remember the artist's name when I was talking with my brother-in-law. However, when my brother-in-law showed me books with prints by the major civil war artists, the style of one artist looked familiar, even though I couldn't be sure that I recognized any of the prints or his name. It turned out that the style I recognized was the correct artist.

    Admittedly, my memory has been affected by the stress of taking care of my mom, in that I seem to be losing the details faster than I would in the past.

    He seems to really love The Walking Dead and wants someone to talk with about it. His wife has zero interest in it. I haven't watched it, but I decided I would start with season 1 and see if I like it enough to watch through to current season.

    In fairness, some of it was also that I forgot to reply. At first I went "I need time to think about this", then I set it aside, then I forgot about it -- and it had been processed by the time you reminded me.
    Still a good reminder for me to be aware that others have different processing needs.
    Johari / Nohari

    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga

  8. #2498
    Senior Member Array prplchknz's Avatar
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    what happened to the other estj? I liked her.
    by @magpie
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  9. #2499
    ♂ Bᴏʀɴ Tᴏ Mᴀᴋᴇ Hɪsᴛᴏʀʏ Array Yamato Nadeshiko's Avatar
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    I have a question for the ESTJs. Actually it's not a question. Let me love you
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  10. #2500
    Senior Member Array Ursa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    what happened to the other estj? I liked her.
    I turned into a sneaky lurker, muahaha!

    I'm taking a back seat because I have a lot of obligations offline. Also because my sensor orientation makes me crave physical activities and the concrete here-and-now rather than discussion. (My attention span sucks online.) I'll pop in every now and then, though! And hopefully some of the forum drama will be more tame then too.

    I've really enjoyed your contributions too, prplchknz. Part of the reason why I want to check on this place once in a while.
    Likes prplchknz, EJCC liked this post

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