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Thread: Ask an ESTJ!

  1. #2421
    This is a test. Array Sil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chubber View Post
    So you weren't that person who threw the milkshake in my face when I was up on stage?
    No. I was the one who cut the power to the mic.

    Ears were in danger.

  2. #2422
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sil View Post
    Hmm, I don't really remember. Off my gut, I'd say I relate to maybe 40% of what you write. You tend to write more factually or about the ESTJ type as a general, though, so there's not a whole lot of opinion lying around to soak in and internalize. Also, like most ESTJs, you don't exactly elaborate on your points ad nauseum. Your posts are pretty succinct.

    The points we've agreed on most are our Fi being heavily involved in our political/moral beliefs and gaining energy from interacting with the world around us (giterdone).
    Seems fair.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sil View Post
    Points we've disagreed on most is how we relate to Fi. You try to use it as a tool to live honestly; I use it to self indulge in cheap rushes.
    What kind of cheap rush do you mean? Like, self-pitying masochism? Or like the satisfaction of knowing that YOURS is the RIGHT way? Or something different?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sil View Post
    On the whole, you come off a lot more conscientious and thoughtful of others than I am.
    I think I consider others a lot more than most ESTJs, yeah. But I would have thought being conscientious would be a given for our type. Why don't you think you're as conscientious?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sil View Post
    As to humor...I haven't seen your brand of humor on here. How is it different from mine?
    Mine is kind of silly and punny and dark. Also lots of Ne. Yours, at least from this thread, seems a lot more dry than mine. And abstract, in a non-Ne way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sil View Post
    And I have no idea what introverted communication looks like. Mind being more specific about what makes for introverted/extroverted communication styles? I'm interested to know what types of patterns/tells you see to decide that.
    I think when people make their point in a very brief and concise way, with no exclamation marks or other text-based indicators, that vibes as a type of introversion, to me. Because it comes across as so incredibly subdued.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sil View Post
    Regarding the enneagram: I'm interested why you think nine or one for core while being dead certain on three heart fix.
    Someone on the forum said, a while ago, that they could tell if someone was a 3 based on an absence of a noticeable heart fix. That's why I'm certain, in your case.

    Nine or One because I haven't noticed 8-style passion from you. You're too subdued. At least, you are on the forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sil View Post
    Actually, I was typed 173 for about a year and a half. Never been anything but an sp though. My sx is practically non-existent. Sx-doms tend to be like flare guns in the face. Too much going on with them.
    Yeah you don't seem 7 at all to me. The more of your posts I read, the more I go with 5w6 or 6w5.

    I like Sx-doms when they know how to establish boundaries. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sil View Post
    On an aside, I do find it interesting that despite both being female ESTJs we're pretty markedly different. I would have expected more resonance.
    Yeah, same. I think you may use significantly less Ne than your average ESTJ? Or your average forumgoing ESTJ?

    and it's nice enough to
    make a man
    weep, but I don't
    weep, do
    you?


    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!
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  3. #2423
    This is a test. Array Sil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Seems fair.

    What kind of cheap rush do you mean? Like, self-pitying masochism? Or like the satisfaction of knowing that YOURS is the RIGHT way? Or something different?
    Entirely different. Think of it as an adrenaline rush gained through emotional indulgence. I find that I really connect with the present moment when I just let myself experience the full force of my emotions. I don't mean acting out on them; I just mean letting them take storm internally and reveling in the sheer FEELING of emotions.

    So when I am bored or feeling stagnated, I dredge up strong emotional points for myself and sort of drown myself in them mentally. I live out the emotions in my head and get wrapped up in experiencing them as a sort of physical sensation.

    Think of it like slipping into a hot bath that is so hot it's almost unbearable. But instead of getting out you continue to lie there are enjoy being on the edge of discomfort. Because the line between comfort and discomfort is so close you don't have the ability to think about anything other than the sensation itself. Your mind is entirely focused on a single, solitary experience.

    That is what I enjoy about emotions.

    Not sure if that gives you a better picture.

    I think I consider others a lot more than most ESTJs, yeah. But I would have thought being conscientious would be a given for our type. Why don't you think you're as conscientious?
    It comes after the fact.

    Conscientiousness is about wishing to do what is right. Based on self-examination, I wish to do what I want first, then think about whether or not it is right afterwards.

    It's not an exact science. There are definitely areas where I strongly care about doing what is right (especially in terms of personal work).

    I think if there is no personal challenge/goal at odds with the moral side, I'll pick morality. But if there is some challenge, some thrill of obstacles to overcome, then I will normally default to the challenge before the moral aspect.

    I guess suffice to say is I am more interested in what I can do before I am interested in whether or not what I do is right.

    Mine is kind of silly and punny and dark. Also lots of Ne. Yours, at least from this thread, seems a lot more dry than mine. And abstract, in a non-Ne way.
    Interesting. This is surprising, as I consider my humor very Ne. Could you elaborate a little and give an example of your humor? Perhaps name the kind of comedic films you enjoy, if any.

    I think when people make their point in a very brief and concise way, with no exclamation marks or other text-based indicators, that vibes as a type of introversion, to me. Because it comes across as so incredibly subdued.
    I see. But I think ESTJs tend to be concise speakers anyways (you certainly are). But maybe that ties into your comment about being more ambiverted?

    Someone on the forum said, a while ago, that they could tell if someone was a 3 based on an absence of a noticeable heart fix. That's why I'm certain, in your case.

    Nine or One because I haven't noticed 8-style passion from you. You're too subdued. At least, you are on the forum.

    Yeah you don't seem 7 at all to me. The more of your posts I read, the more I go with 5w6 or 6w5.
    That makes sense. I agree with your assessment that I wouldn't qualify as an eight or seven. I'm not quite as subdued in real life as I am on forums, but I don't fit the motivations of either of those types.

    I don't know what an "absence of a noticeable heart fix" looks like, but I would agree based on what I remember about the enneagram about being a 3 heart fix.

    I like Sx-doms when they know how to establish boundaries. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.
    Excellent point. Sx-doms who don't have boundaries are problematic. Sx-doms who learn how much energy to give and withhold are more manageable.

    Yeah, same. I think you may use significantly less Ne than your average ESTJ? Or your average forumgoing ESTJ?
    This is such a strange thing. I consider myself a VERY heavy Ne user for an ESTJ. To the point that I've been weighing ENFP as a type. It's very unexpected that you would say it appears I use it less than an average ESTJ (forumgoing or otherwise).

    I wonder if maybe I've been confusing another cog function for Ne.
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  4. #2424
    This is a test. Array Sil's Avatar
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    @EJCC

    To also note, you are the first ESTJ with significant MBTI experience that I've spoken to in perhaps 3-4 years. So it's a nice change of pace for me to get your perspective and thoughts.
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  5. #2425
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    @Sil I'm wondering if you're actually an ENTJ. Or at least if there's something significant other than instinctual stacking that separates us. Maybe ENFP is possible and you actually ARE more Ne than me.

    That emotion thing you described is something I don't relate to at all. I experience that discomfort thing but I don't find it enjoyable as much as I (sometimes) find it useful and important and interesting. So the enjoyment is intellectual. Not to mention I rarely feel like I'm in the present moment when I'm in the midst of emotions. I wonder if that's what inferior Fi feels like to ENTJs?

    And what you described about morality is almost enough to make me rule out 1 entirely as a trifix. (What do you think, @Hard?) Maybe 8w9 or 9w8?

    Out of curiosity, what makes you relate more to Si and Ni?

    and it's nice enough to
    make a man
    weep, but I don't
    weep, do
    you?


    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!
    Likes chubber liked this post

  6. #2426
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Oh, also: I'm not remembering good examples of my own jokes now, but here are some of my favorite sources of comedy, in no particular order:

    - "Scott Pilgrim Vs. the World"
    - WTF with Marc Maron
    - "Big Trouble in Little China"
    - "BoJack Horseman"
    - XKCD

    And favorite comedians:
    - Mitch Hedberg
    - Steve Martin
    - Marc Maron
    - Nick Offerman
    - John Mulaney
    - Louis CK

    Comedians/sources of comedy I DON'T like:
    - Carlos Mencia
    - Adam Sandler
    - "The Hangover"
    - Gross-out, shock value humor (e.g. Sarah Silverman, 2/3 of all episodes of South Park)
    - Awkward humor (e.g. most of "The Office" and all of "Louie" even though I love Louis CK)

    and it's nice enough to
    make a man
    weep, but I don't
    weep, do
    you?


    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!
    Likes Sil, Forever liked this post

  7. #2427
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    I swear I didn't lock this thread intentionally. God damn it, why is this glitch happening.

    and it's nice enough to
    make a man
    weep, but I don't
    weep, do
    you?


    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  8. #2428
    This is a test. Array Sil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    @Sil I'm wondering if you're actually an ENTJ. Or at least if there's something significant other than instinctual stacking that separates us. Maybe ENFP is possible and you actually ARE more Ne than me.
    It sounds like you're picking up on a fairly significant amount of discordance between us that might not be entirely accounted for by instinctual stacking.

    Re: ENFP. It's possible I use a significantly larger amount of Ne than you. The only hitch with ENFP for me is that 1) I've never related to posts by ENFPs and 2) inferior Fi is pretty accurate for me.

    I ended up being an ESTJ primarily based on my inferior function.

    That emotion thing you described is something I don't relate to at all. I experience that discomfort thing but I don't find it enjoyable as much as I (sometimes) find it useful and important and interesting. So the enjoyment is intellectual. Not to mention I rarely feel like I'm in the present moment when I'm in the midst of emotions. I wonder if that's what inferior Fi feels like to ENTJs?
    Oh, that's unexpected. I'm quite surprised you don't relate to it at all. Especially about emotions pulling you into the present. Where do emotions take you on a past-present-future scale? Or do they not extend to that at all?

    Do you generally perceive your emotions more in terms of usefulness (both practically and in terms of moral guidance)? Do you ever play around with your own emotions to just explore them as things?

    What kind of state do strong emotions bring you to?

    And what you described about morality is almost enough to make me rule out 1 entirely as a trifix. (What do you think, @Hard?) Maybe 8w9 or 9w8?

    Out of curiosity, what makes you relate more to Si and Ni?
    Huh. I wasn't aware anything I said was distinctly non-one. But it's been awhile since I delved into the enneagram, so my knowledge isn't what it used to be.

    Do you also rule out 5w6 and 6w5 now?

    Regarding Si and Ni, here are some descriptions:

    Introverted sensation is subjectively filtered. Perception is not based directly on the object, but is merely suggested by it. Instead, layers of subjective impressions are superimposed upon the image so that it becomes impossible to determine what will be perceived from a knowledge only of the object. Perception thus depends crucially upon internal psychological processes that will differ from one person to the next. At its most positive, introverted sensation is found in the creative artist. At its most extreme, it produces psychotic hallucinations and a total alienation from reality.
    Relate to this quite a lot. I consider Si an impressionistic recall of experiences. The recall is more about the sensation that occurred during that experience than the factual aspects of the experience itself.

    I use Si to engage in what I would call "sensation matching." Say I am standing at a street corner and am suddenly struck by a sensation. I can quickly take that sensation and run it through my internal database of past experiences to find matching sensations from previous experiences. I can identify not only what triggered the sensation in the present, but identify past moments that are sensationally congruent with the sensation I am currently experiencing.

    Sensation primarily refers to a set of feelings/ideas/thoughts that are subjectively connected with a point in time. Or multiple points in time. They may or may not be at all related to what was actually happening at that point in time.

    Si for me is largely involuntary.

    Introverted intuition is directed inward to the contents of the unconscious. It attempts to fathom internal events by relating them to universal psychological processes or to other archetypal images. Consequently it generally has a mythical, symbolic or prophetic quality.
    I don't relate to this at all. I have no idea what it means to refer to archetypal images.



    If these are bad descriptions of both Si and Ni, let me know. It is possible I've pulled weaker examples to base my explanations off of.

  9. #2429
    failed poetry slam career Array chubber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sil View Post
    No. I was the one who cut the power to the mic.

    Ears were in danger.
    I thank you.



    So your previous career you weren't into being a sales representative?

  10. #2430
    This is a test. Array Sil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Oh, also: I'm not remembering good examples of my own jokes now, but here are some of my favorite sources of comedy, in no particular order:

    - "Scott Pilgrim Vs. the World"
    - WTF with Marc Maron
    - "Big Trouble in Little China"
    - "BoJack Horseman"
    - XKCD

    And favorite comedians:
    - Mitch Hedberg
    - Steve Martin
    - Marc Maron
    - Nick Offerman
    - John Mulaney
    - Louis CK

    Comedians/sources of comedy I DON'T like:
    - Carlos Mencia
    - Adam Sandler
    - "The Hangover"
    - Gross-out, shock value humor (e.g. Sarah Silverman, 2/3 of all episodes of South Park)
    - Awkward humor (e.g. most of "The Office" and all of "Louie" even though I love Louis CK)
    Ah, okay. Yes, we definitely have different tastes. Big Trouble in Little China (1986) was a momentous struggle for me to get through. The rest of your film choices I have never watched because they never appealed to me.

    Had to look up the comedians, as I don't usually watch stand up comedy. Carlos Mencia was fine. Adam Sandler, Mitch Hedeberg, and Louis CK were all rather bland for me.

    Of stand up comedy, Dylan Moran is a solid favorite. I also enjoy Dane Cook from time to time as well as Jeff Dunham.

    I am with you on awkward humor, though. The Office is not a show I enjoy.

    Of movies I like:

    Galaxy Quest (1999)
    Kelly's Heroes (1970)
    Monty Python and the Holy Grail (1975)
    Tremors (1999)
    The Good the Bad and the Weird [Korean] (2010)
    Castaway on the Moon [Korean] (2009)

    TV Shows:

    Psych (2006-2014)
    Chuck (2007-2012)


    Seinfeld is also a solid choice.

    On reflection, I think I like shows that parody particular genres.

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