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Thread: Ask an ESTJ!

  1. #231
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    How do ESTJs feel about being bonded with others? I tried to bond with ESTJs I knew and it just didn't work, but I always respected their reliability and provided the personality was well-developed, great honesty. Great work ethic too, plus competence. I can get along with ESTJs okay, but there's just a certain point where we seem to realize it can't go any further. Also, a lot of male ESTJs I know feel like they have to constantly brag about themselves. What's that all about?
    A hero is someone who does the right thing without expectation of reward, just because it's the right thing to do.

  2. #232

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    What counts, for ESTJs, as respect Earned?

  3. #233
    [bento boxed] EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LotsOfHeart View Post
    How do ESTJs feel about being bonded with others? I tried to bond with ESTJs I knew and it just didn't work, but I always respected their reliability and provided the personality was well-developed, great honesty. Great work ethic too, plus competence. I can get along with ESTJs okay, but there's just a certain point where we seem to realize it can't go any further.
    Thank you for the compliments! What sort of bonding are you thinking of? Friendship, that sort of thing? What were your bonding efforts, and what is the typical ESTJ response that you've noticed?

    Also, a lot of male ESTJs I know feel like they have to constantly brag about themselves. What's that all about?
    We're competitive people. We tend to think of things in terms of hierarchies. When an ESTJ analyzes the situation at hand and realize that they're lower on the hierarchy than they would like, they'll probably want to reassure themselves that they are, in fact, higher up than some people are. And when they're high up, they might want people to know that somehow. So, there's the arrogance. (I used to have this problem, but I've gotten a lot better at holding it in. Plus, much ego-crushing has happened in the course of the last few years, and that helps.) I think it's much more of a man thing, though. Testosterone. You know.

    Quote Originally Posted by matilda View Post
    What counts, for ESTJs, as respect Earned?
    When you've proven yourself to an ESTJ, they respect you. We look for evidence. For example, if I've seen someone complete task A, and/or someone I trust has told me that you do task A well, then you have my respect, for being good at that. I especially respect people who do things well that I do horribly and could never do well (meaning that they're not on the same hierarchy as me, so it's more comfortable to respect/admire them, as opposed to thinking of them as rivals). However, I don't truly respect people without a reason behind it.
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

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  4. #234
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    I found that the ESTJs I knew were very intelligent and respectful in a matter of fact way. However, I could never break the ice with them. I would try to make conversation or joke, they would reply with laughter or another comment. But it was hard to keep the ball rolling in a conversation with them. An ENFJ, for instance, is incredibly easy for me to have a long conversation with, perhaps too easy. Whatever I say to most ENFJs I've known, they have a bunch of things to say back to continue the conversation. With them, I had to STOP them from talking. It's easier for me as an INFJ to break the ice with other NF's, or even NT's, than most SJs, especially extroverted ones. Why exactly that is, I'm not sure. Perhaps the ESTJs I knew weren't big talkers, maybe what I liked to talk about didn't interest them. I'm not sure, honestly. But something wasn't clicking. I think the ESTJs I knew weren't the most accepting of people who they found "strange" or "different". They had pretty low tolerance for the unconventional, so if they viewed you as untraditional, they would resist forming too close of a friendship, from what I noticed. That's not to say they're all like that, though.

    Thanks for the hierarchies comment, that makes sense. It's not the competitive thing I mind, I'm competitive too. However, ESTJs I've known seemed to enjoy bragging and being conceited quite a bit. They also would step on other peoples' toes, with little regard to who's toes they were stepping on (i.e. someone higher than them on the hierarchy scale). I'm not sure if they were aware that they came off this way, but it was very obvious to people around them. It's unfortunate when that happens because their natural leadership qualities, and the other positive qualities I mentioned in my last post become compromised if an ESTJ acts like this.

    Since I'm taking apart you ESTJs, I think it's only fair that I share some of my own weaknesses (I should have done this in the ESFJ thread, but didn't think to, maybe I will after this). For one, I often hold back part of myself, and am often disorganized (although I am punctual). I am not always sure how my actions affect others. It's not that I don't care, it's that I can't understand. This makes things awkward for me socially sometimes. I'm also horrible at taking care of daily errands. I live in my head WAY too much.

    Having said all that, I think if the ESTJs I've known in life thought the way you did, EJCC, they would go GREAT lengths towards improving their relationships with other people. ESTJs are gifted in many ways, and if they can learn to develop more sympathy and care for others, they can really live to their full potential, which is often as a solid, reliable leader in whatever field interests them.
    A hero is someone who does the right thing without expectation of reward, just because it's the right thing to do.

  5. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by LotsOfHeart View Post
    I found that the ESTJs I knew were very intelligent and respectful in a matter of fact way. However, I could never break the ice with them. I would try to make conversation or joke, they would reply with laughter or another comment. But it was hard to keep the ball rolling in a conversation with them. An ENFJ, for instance, is incredibly easy for me to have a long conversation with, perhaps too easy. Whatever I say to most ENFJs I've known, they have a bunch of things to say back to continue the conversation. With them, I had to STOP them from talking. It's easier for me as an INFJ to break the ice with other NF's, or even NT's, than most SJs, especially extroverted ones. Why exactly that is, I'm not sure. Perhaps the ESTJs I knew weren't big talkers, maybe what I liked to talk about didn't interest them. I'm not sure, honestly. But something wasn't clicking. [B] I think the ESTJs I knew weren't the most accepting of people who they found "strange" or "different". They had pretty low tolerance for the unconventional, so if they viewed you as untraditional, they would resist forming too close of a friendship, from what I noticed. That's not to say they're all like that, though.
    Interesting! The other ESTJ I know irl, whenever I've tried to talk to him, has reacted similarly, i.e. responding honestly to what you say but not trying to continue the conversation. With regard to the bolded statement, although I'm perfectly fine with people who are "strange", I have trouble with them when they're strange in terms of how they interact with others, because then I don't know how to respond to them. It's like being spoken to in a foreign language. HOWEVER, I don't think it was necessarily that they thought you were weird. I think it's that, in the amount of time you talked to them, they never saw any specific connecting factor. If you had brought up something that they're passionate about, you would have hit it off right away, no questions asked, but since you didn't, and since ESTJs aren't as good at opening up with people right off the bat as some other extraverts are, then they passed right by you. (Also, we aren't so good with moving between stages of relationships, e.g. "acquaintance" and "friend". That may or may not have something to do with it.) No worries, though - you just haven't found the right ESTJ yet!

    Thanks for the hierarchies comment, that makes sense. It's not the competitive thing I mind, I'm competitive too. However, ESTJs I've known seemed to enjoy bragging and being conceited quite a bit. They also would step on other peoples' toes, with little regard to who's toes they were stepping on (i.e. someone higher than them on the hierarchy scale). I'm not sure if they were aware that they came off this way, but it was very obvious to people around them. It's unfortunate when that happens because their natural leadership qualities, and the other positive qualities I mentioned in my last post become compromised if an ESTJ acts like this.
    I don't think they mean to seem like this. I know that in the past, when I've been called on (unintentionally) arrogant comments, I've been mortified, because I have such a low tolerance for arrogance in others. (Hypocrisy alert!!) I'm not sure if we really are that arrogant, though. We may seem like we are, because we're always trying to enforce our rules and our ways on others, but we don't see it as "enforcing our rules". We see it like this: There are rules, and they must be followed, because that's just the way that life is, so if we seen anyone doing things wrong, we'll do what we can to fix the problem. Note the lack of subjectivity in there; we forget that there isn't one right way and one wrong way. We don't see the ways as "OUR ways". We see them as "THE ways". So, in other words, it's almost selfless.
    Sorry, that was completely unrelated to the bragging thing. On second thought, that could be peer pressure, as well as testosterone. Did other people brag to the ESTJs, or were they the only ones in their environment doing so? (I know that the only times I brag, I don't mean for it to be arrogant-sounding - it's just that when I do something cool, I get excited about it, and I want to share it with others. And as any of my friends would tell you, if something excites me, I WILL tell everyone about it )

    Since I'm taking apart you ESTJs, I think it's only fair that I share some of my own weaknesses (I should have done this in the ESFJ thread, but didn't think to, maybe I will after this).
    No need to! I'm quite used to being scrutinized.
    For one, I often hold back part of myself, and am often disorganized (although I am punctual).
    Interesting how INFJs are like this. I can't figure that one out.
    I am not always sure how my actions affect others.
    Same here... times a billion.

    Having said all that, I think if the ESTJs I've known in life thought the way you did, EJCC, they would go GREAT lengths towards improving their relationships with other people. ESTJs are gifted in many ways, and if they can learn to develop more sympathy and care for others, they can really live to their full potential, which is often as a solid, reliable leader in whatever field interests them.
    As flattered as I am by this, I'm not sure if I agree. As I mentioned earlier, I have many of the same problems as the ESTJs you've known, and my interpersonal relationships haven't always been handled too well on my part. When my friendships fail, it's almost always a friend being angry at me, and not vice-versa. I'm not too emotionally intelligent. That's why I admire INFJs - I could never be as talented as you are at understanding people's feelings.

    Thanks for your question! It gave me much cause for introspection... which is (almost) always a good thing for me.
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  6. #236
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    LotsofHeart: I sort of understand what you mean about trying the get them to talk. They don't always interject in conversation where most others would.

    I don't know if you talk a lot but when I feel comfortable, I can talk quite a bit if the subject interests me or I'm telling a story about my day.

    The ESTJ I know is always quiet after I finish talking and rarely interjects during me talking. I wondered about this so much that I asked him why he wasn't talking after I explained a long winded opinion on why I wanted to quit my current job. He said he's quiet because he's listening to me. I then jokingly asked him to repeat what I said and he did. He even included the details and everything!

    Maybe that helps out? I don't know. But some of them are very good listeners.
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  7. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Interesting! The other ESTJ I know irl, whenever I've tried to talk to him, has reacted similarly, i.e. responding honestly to what you say but not trying to continue the conversation. With regard to the bolded statement, although I'm perfectly fine with people who are "strange", I have trouble with them when they're strange in terms of how they interact with others, because then I don't know how to respond to them. It's like being spoken to in a foreign language. HOWEVER, I don't think it was necessarily that they thought you were weird. I think it's that, in the amount of time you talked to them, they never saw any specific connecting factor. If you had brought up something that they're passionate about, you would have hit it off right away, no questions asked, but since you didn't, and since ESTJs aren't as good at opening up with people right off the bat as some other extraverts are, then they passed right by you. (Also, we aren't so good with moving between stages of relationships, e.g. "acquaintance" and "friend". That may or may not have something to do with it.) No worries, though - you just haven't found the right ESTJ yet!


    I don't think they mean to seem like this. I know that in the past, when I've been called on (unintentionally) arrogant comments, I've been mortified, because I have such a low tolerance for arrogance in others. (Hypocrisy alert!!) I'm not sure if we really are that arrogant, though. We may seem like we are, because we're always trying to enforce our rules and our ways on others, but we don't see it as "enforcing our rules". We see it like this: There are rules, and they must be followed, because that's just the way that life is, so if we seen anyone doing things wrong, we'll do what we can to fix the problem. Note the lack of subjectivity in there; we forget that there isn't one right way and one wrong way. We don't see the ways as "OUR ways". We see them as "THE ways". So, in other words, it's almost selfless.
    Sorry, that was completely unrelated to the bragging thing. On second thought, that could be peer pressure, as well as testosterone. Did other people brag to the ESTJs, or were they the only ones in their environment doing so? (I know that the only times I brag, I don't mean for it to be arrogant-sounding - it's just that when I do something cool, I get excited about it, and I want to share it with others. And as any of my friends would tell you, if something excites me, I WILL tell everyone about it )

    As flattered as I am by this, I'm not sure if I agree. As I mentioned earlier, I have many of the same problems as the ESTJs you've known, and my interpersonal relationships haven't always been handled too well on my part. When my friendships fail, it's almost always a friend being angry at me, and not vice-versa. I'm not too emotionally intelligent. That's why I admire INFJs - I could never be as talented as you are at understanding people's feelings.

    Thanks for your question! It gave me much cause for introspection... which is (almost) always a good thing for me.
    Well this is great, I'm learning more about a personality type that is very different from mine! I think the selflessness thing was a very astute observation. I never thought of it that way before. I guess I'm kind of in the middle. I follow rules sometimes, but break others. I think it's because my Idealist temperment drives me to decide for myself what's right and wrong, and if I feel something should be different than the established method, I do it that way! Wow, it sounds really crazy when you say it like that!

    From studying MBTI, I've learned that thinking types tend not to get quite as excited about things as feeling types do. They may feel excited about certain things, but it's usually something big in their life like a job promotion. Feeling types get excited about the littlest things sometimes. On occasions that translates for annoying outbursts in public (usually extroverted feeling types)...But I digress...

    One of the great things about the Myers-Briggs system is that we learn our temperment, then both the good things and the bad things our types are prone to doing. There is not a single type on the list which doesn't have flaws that are glaryingly obvious to another type (and yet not obvious/not bothersome to others!). When you learn how to work your way around these natural inherent weaknesses, you're bettering yourself as a person. That's why I wish more people understood/appreciated this opportunity to grow.
    A hero is someone who does the right thing without expectation of reward, just because it's the right thing to do.

  8. #238
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    Is it typical for female ESTJ's to have a short fuse and a bad temper? (bad temper = crying, yelling in frustration etc..)
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  9. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by d@v3 View Post
    Is it typical for female ESTJ's to have a short fuse and a bad temper? (bad temper = crying, yelling in frustration etc..)
    Mine does, however I've always assumed it was more of an individual thing.



  10. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by LotsOfHeart View Post
    From studying MBTI, I've learned that thinking types tend not to get quite as excited about things as feeling types do. They may feel excited about certain things, but it's usually something big in their life like a job promotion. Feeling types get excited about the littlest things sometimes. On occasions that translates for annoying outbursts in public (usually extroverted feeling types)...But I digress...
    I dunno. I think extraverted thinkers can definitely get excited about things. But it depends on whether we're feeling cheery. I'm generally a happy person, so I often get excited about things I like. (...and then go on ENTJ-ish rambles about them, even when no one has any idea what I'm talking about )

    Quote Originally Posted by d@v3 View Post
    Is it typical for female ESTJ's to have a short fuse and a bad temper? (bad temper = crying, yelling in frustration etc..)
    When I'm in a bad mood, I'm definitely like this. But I can't say what's "typical", since I'm the only ESTJ female I know irl.
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

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