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Thread: Ask an ESTJ!

  1. #2331
    Senior Member Array prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I don't know what makes so many INxJs -- INFJs especially -- believe so strongly that they are open-minded. Maybe it's because they take in all possible ideas, and to them, the fact that the ideas are coming in is more important than whether the ideas actually make an impact.

    My mom, thankfully, knows that she is not open-minded. But she's also a 1w2 like me, so she's unusually judgmental for an INFJ. We find solidarity in that regard!





    Honestly? Sympathy. Because I don't feel a lot of empathy most of the time. And expressing sympathy makes me more likely to feel empathy. Like how smiling a lot is scientifically proven to make you happier.
    no not on other people's problems other people's problems are easier

    but i mean when you have an issue do you prefer them to be empathetic or sympathetic?


    oh and the smiling thing is bs i tried it it made me feel worse.

  2. #2332
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    no not on other people's problems other people's problems are easier

    but i mean when you have an issue do you prefer them to be empathetic or sympathetic?
    Generally I prefer for them to be honest. Like, if I'm making a big deal over nothing, then tell me. Ideally you'll also validate my emotions a little -- which can be either sympathy or empathy, I think? -- but I'm not going to hate you if you don't.

    But if I'm feeling really bad and need consoling, then please, empathy. Empathy all the way.

    and it's nice enough to
    make a man
    weep, but I don't
    weep, do
    you?


    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!
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  3. #2333
    across the universe Array Olm the Water King's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    *Digression: The reason for that is that the ESTJs want to know if that contrasting opinion is actually valid, and in order to know that, they need to know that their personal reservations are baseless. I don't love arguing, and I'm not a competitive debater, but I do tend to interrogate people when they have strongly-held views that are different from mine. Sometimes when that interrogation is done, then I put on that new belief like a schmancy new jacket. It's that simple! No processing time needed, unless we get into Fi territory.
    Can you give an example of Fi territory for you?

  4. #2334
    Senior Member Array prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Generally I prefer for them to be honest. Like, if I'm making a big deal over nothing, then tell me. Ideally you'll also validate my emotions a little -- which can be either sympathy or empathy, I think? -- but I'm not going to hate you if you don't.

    But if I'm feeling really bad and need consoling, then please, empathy. Empathy all the way.
    I have a feeling this is true for most humans.

    so why do we always offer more sympathy in the worse situations? when they don't need sympathy

  5. #2335
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    estj

  6. #2336
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sultan of Beans View Post
    Can you give an example of Fi territory for you?
    Anything related to my moral code, my friends/family, or anything I have a strong emotional stake in. I don't know if other ESTJs have this problem, but I know I have to be VERY careful in political discussions, because my moral code is the core of my political beliefs, and if things get heated I tend to take the opposing position personally.

    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    I have a feeling this is true for most humans.

    so why do we always offer more sympathy in the worse situations? when they don't need sympathy
    I think you're right.

    The problem is that humans are wired to avoid pain, and empathy requires seeking that pain out and drawing from it. So empathy is really, really hard for most people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cygnus View Post
    estj
    Yes

    and it's nice enough to
    make a man
    weep, but I don't
    weep, do
    you?


    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!
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  7. #2337
    across the universe Array Olm the Water King's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Anything related to my moral code, my friends/family, or anything I have a strong emotional stake in. I don't know if other ESTJs have this problem, but I know I have to be VERY careful in political discussions, because my moral code is the core of my political beliefs, and if things get heated I tend to take the opposing position personally.
    How would you describe your moral code?

  8. #2338
    Senior Member Array prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Anything related to my moral code, my friends/family, or anything I have a strong emotional stake in. I don't know if other ESTJs have this problem, but I know I have to be VERY careful in political discussions, because my moral code is the core of my political beliefs, and if things get heated I tend to take the opposing position personally.


    I think you're right.

    The problem is that humans are wired to avoid pain, and empathy requires seeking that pain out and drawing from it. So empathy is really, really hard for most people.


    Yes
    see i find i'm better at feeling empathy than sympathy i dunno it just feels fake and meaningless if i can't feel empathy for a situation i'll tell them

    like if i'm gonna feel empathy it happens automatically but for sympathy i have to put out effort and usually it's not worth it

  9. #2339
    Active Member Array Poki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    see i find i'm better at feeling empathy than sympathy i dunno it just feels fake and meaningless if i can't feel empathy for a situation i'll tell them

    like if i'm gonna feel empathy it happens automatically but for sympathy i have to put out effort and usually it's not worth it
    I am opposite. I feel different then most so I can't really feel with them. Have always been like this. What bothers most don't bother me and vice versa.
    Take what I say with a grain of salt, because that's all it is compared to the ocean of complexity when it comes to actions and real life.

  10. #2340
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sultan of Beans View Post
    How would you describe your moral code?
    That's a tough one. I'm probably not going to describe it accurately.

    General gist:

    - Fairness / justice
    - Kindness
    - Balance between decisiveness and open-mindedness
    - Civility
    - Conscientiousness / being considerate
    - The Golden Rule / WWJD?
    - "Being a good person"
    - Doing what you're best at / Realizing your full potential
    - Recognizing when you are being called to action, then taking action to the best of your ability
    - Various Jesuit catchphrases (finding God in all things, ad maiorem Dei gloriam, men and women for others)
    Last edited by EJCC; 11-19-2015 at 11:57 AM. Reason: added another one

    and it's nice enough to
    make a man
    weep, but I don't
    weep, do
    you?


    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!
    Likes Olm the Water King liked this post

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