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Thread: Ask an ESTJ!

  1. #2321
    failed poetry slam career Array chubber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Bumping my earlier question:
    bonus question: Did they always wanted to be a manny?

  2. #2322
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    How do you really perceive IJs? Especially the feeler ones?

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    Senior Member Array prplchknz's Avatar
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    how fleixible are you? can you lick your own toes? not that you do but if you wanted to could you?

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    This is a test. Array Sil's Avatar
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    Do you prefer symmetry or asymmetry as an aesthetic style?

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    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beshr Al Bakri View Post
    How do you really perceive IJs? Especially the feeler ones?
    Totally depends. I have loads of IxFJ friends, but I also know IxFJs that I actively dislike.

    Sometimes IxxJs can bother me because they are more stubborn and less receptive to outside information, than ExxJs tend to be. So arguing with them can feel like running into a brick wall. Especially with INxJs. With those folks, I tend to throw my argument into the void, end the discussion. and hope that they think about it later.

    That being said, my reasons for being friends with people tend to not have much to do with type.

    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    how fleixible are you? can you lick your own toes? not that you do but if you wanted to could you?
    I'm not super flexible. But I'm getting there. Yoga helps!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sil View Post
    Do you prefer symmetry or asymmetry as an aesthetic style?
    If it's purposeful, planned asymmetry and feels like it contributes to the general flow/harmony of whatever it is that's being asymmetrical (clothes, interior design, art), then I like asymmetry. Symmetry can sometimes feel too perfect. Boringly so.

    and it's nice enough to
    make a man
    weep, but I don't
    weep, do
    you?


    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!
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  6. #2326
    Senior Member Array prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Totally depends. I have loads of IxFJ friends, but I also know IxFJs that I actively dislike.

    Sometimes IxxJs can bother me because they are more stubborn and less receptive to outside information, than ExxJs tend to be. So arguing with them can feel like running into a brick wall. Especially with INxJs. With those folks, I tend to throw my argument into the void, end the discussion. and hope that they think about it later.

    That being said, my reasons for being friends with people tend to not have much to do with type.

    yeah i noticed that, not who your friends are but rather that ExxJs tend to be more open minded than INxJs yet descriptions and stereotypes actually make it sound like the opposite is true. why is this?

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    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    yeah i noticed that, not who your friends are but rather that ExxJs tend to be more open minded than INxJs yet descriptions and stereotypes actually make it sound like the opposite is true. why is this?
    I think when ExxJs are intolerant, they tend to be loud and decisive-sounding, which makes people assume that they shouldn't attempt to argue with them. ESTJs, especially, are very argumentative when people question their opinions, so that can turn people off as well*. But ExxJs have a more flexible internal structure, I think -- more adaptable, and quicker to adapt. Though I think it depends on what the contrasting opinion is, and how closely it is held.


    *Digression: The reason for that is that the ESTJs want to know if that contrasting opinion is actually valid, and in order to know that, they need to know that their personal reservations are baseless. I don't love arguing, and I'm not a competitive debater, but I do tend to interrogate people when they have strongly-held views that are different from mine. Sometimes when that interrogation is done, then I put on that new belief like a schmancy new jacket. It's that simple! No processing time needed, unless we get into Fi territory.

    and it's nice enough to
    make a man
    weep, but I don't
    weep, do
    you?


    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!
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  8. #2328
    Active Member Array Poki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    yeah i noticed that, not who your friends are but rather that ExxJs tend to be more open minded than INxJs yet descriptions and stereotypes actually make it sound like the opposite is true. why is this?
    From my point of view EJ'S are more goal driven due to thier Je nature. Because they are goal driven they are aware that ignoring certain data is counter productive to the goal. So while they may argue at first, when they slow down and internalize or bounce ideas out of the moment they can and will adapt to meet the goal.

    They are very stubborn hard headed when they are talking about why things are screwed up, but when it's about knowledge of goal driven data they are open to things that will help them reach thier goal. Pushing towards goals is a positive thing IMO for them. It keeps them open and growing.
    Take what I say with a grain of salt, because that's all it is compared to the ocean of complexity when it comes to actions and real life.

  9. #2329
    Senior Member Array prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I think when ExxJs are intolerant, they tend to be loud and decisive-sounding, which makes people assume that they shouldn't attempt to argue with them. ESTJs, especially, are very argumentative when people question their opinions, so that can turn people off as well*. But ExxJs have a more flexible internal structure, I think -- more adaptable, and quicker to adapt. Though I think it depends on what the contrasting opinion is, and how closely it is held.


    *Digression: The reason for that is that the ESTJs want to know if that contrasting opinion is actually valid, and in order to know that, they need to know that their personal reservations are baseless. I don't love arguing, and I'm not a competitive debater, but I do tend to interrogate people when they have strongly-held views that are different from mine. Sometimes when that interrogation is done, then I put on that new belief like a schmancy new jacket. It's that simple! No processing time needed, unless we get into Fi territory.
    that's fine we don't agree on everything but you don't try to convince me and everyone else how open minded you are while not being so. and i think that's what drives me nuts about INxJs is when they pretend to be the epitome of openmindness and pretend to understand people way more than they actually do and when you tell them that no they don't actually understand and that they're not being open minded its a mighty blow to their egos. where you'll be more likely i don't understand even when you do but don't believe you do and i'd rather see that quality in a person than them having the one where they believe to understand when they clearly don't. nothing drives me more nuts when someone is giving me advice and i'm going no it's not like that but are completely convinced they know more about my situation than they possibly could.

    but yes people only look at the surface of things even N's (oh no! bring out the pitchforks and slay me like your dragon) because that's the lazy thing to do we all do it.

    ok so i guess i have to ask a question
    do you find sympathy or empathy helps you more in situations?

    and why is that?
    by @magpie
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  10. #2330
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    that's fine we don't agree on everything but you don't try to convince me and everyone else how open minded you are while not being so. and i think that's what drives me nuts about INxJs is when they pretend to be the epitome of openmindness and pretend to understand people way more than they actually do and when you tell them that no they don't actually understand and that they're not being open minded its a mighty blow to their egos. where you'll be more likely i don't understand even when you do but don't believe you do and i'd rather see that quality in a person than them having the one where they believe to understand when they clearly don't. nothing drives me more nuts when someone is giving me advice and i'm going no it's not like that but are completely convinced they know more about my situation than they possibly could.
    I don't know what makes so many INxJs -- INFJs especially -- believe so strongly that they are open-minded. Maybe it's because they take in all possible ideas, and to them, the fact that the ideas are coming in is more important than whether the ideas actually make an impact.

    My mom, thankfully, knows that she is not open-minded. But she's also a 1w2 like me, so she's unusually judgmental for an INFJ. We find solidarity in that regard!

    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    but yes people only look at the surface of things even N's (oh no! bring out the pitchforks and slay me like your dragon) because that's the lazy thing to do we all do it.


    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    ok so i guess i have to ask a question
    do you find sympathy or empathy helps you more in situations?

    and why is that?
    Honestly? Sympathy. Because I don't feel a lot of empathy most of the time. And expressing sympathy makes me more likely to feel empathy. Like how smiling a lot is scientifically proven to make you happier.

    and it's nice enough to
    make a man
    weep, but I don't
    weep, do
    you?


    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

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