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Thread: Ask an ESTJ!

  1. #2121
    climb on Showbread's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    My question -- which is for other ESTJs, people who are close to ESTJs, and perhaps also ENTJs -- relates to the below quote from my blog:



    So, how DO you deal with emotional buildup? How do you talk to people about it when you're in that kind of isolated and crazy/distorted/desperate inferior-Fi mental space?


    Summoning some people, off the top of my head, who know ESTJs well:
    @Hard, the ESTJ I know best is my dad so it's a little tricky. My dad definitely tries to reason away his feelings. And like a lot of men in Western culture, a broad range of emotions present as anger/frustration. He definitely does not ask for help when he is distressed. He kind of gets hell bent on fixing everything himself in an almost manic way. Then when he fails his pride/self-esteem plummets and kind of retreats inside. The "men never ask for directions" stereotype pretty much nails it. In terms of general emotional buildup, he definitely internalizes. It just kind of builds until he explodes and then everything pisses him off, even if it's completely unrelated.
    Friends, waffles, work

    "The problem is, when you depend on a substitute for love, you can never get enough" - Louis Cozolino

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  2. #2122
    Junior Member devaf's Avatar
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    Hey ESTJ, what do you think of the following, a little piece (not so little, longish, lol) I wrote to start getting my mind wired into MBTI analysis

    Minutes of a meeting

    estj and intj buy complex computer program for internal office use, on trial on the recommendation of an expert consultant

    estj, sets up a webex meeting, opens it up and starts configuring it. its the opposite of intuitive, not even sure what the menus do and there are humungous options.

    intj - give me a couple of days we will re schedule this meeting

    estj - hang on, just watch this, i am pretty sure this is going to do that

    after a few minutes,

    estj - why isn't it doing that? I think its a bug, don't you? I have used similar things, it should let us do this.

    intj - we should define what we want to do with this exactly and have a written list of that first. Then we read the manual, then start configuring. we should also, before even evaluating it, set up access controls and bring in the techs who will actually be doing this in future.

    estj - why the f** do you want to do all that now, we need to see if it works, thats what the trial is for. I am going to call their support.

    intj - they're not going to configure it for you. They can only answer specific questions. They do have a paid training program, but its not good value for money, too pricey.as they say in the open source forums, rtfm.

    estj - hang on, i have called them, can you hear? its ringing, I have it on speaker. I can conference in your cell if you like.
    ...its before hours, SLAM sound

    estj - whats rtfm?

    intj - means read the effing manual

    estj - you never say 'f***', do you? pardon my f****** french, ha ha ha

    intj - funny, funny. ok, i am going to bring in X alone, he can teach the guys on the other shifts later. we need to set up access restriction from the start as the first thing.

    estj - ok, i'll play around with it. i am pretty good at this stuff, don't you think? You have seen me work this kinda stuff.

    intj - silence

    estj - how long will the access control take?

    intj - about 10 minutes

    estj - i say we do it right now. Whaddya think?

    intj - ok, no problem. give me 15 minutes, i will call you back when its done. We give X, you and me access.

    estj - ok.

    10 minutes later, back on call.

    intj - done

    estj - great, that was nice and quick. X is joining us in a minute.

    intj - what for?

    estj - wtf, you said you wanted to start with him.

    intj - but there are other steps

    estj - i am confused. what steps?

    intj - we will use this call to note down a bulleted list of the things we need done with this thing. then , give me a couple days to read the manual. we will start configuring it and call support with specific questions.

    estj - ok, i will leave all that to you, this is all a left brain thing, its right up your alley.

    intj - ok, no problem. the left brain right brain business is a myth, like i told you before, maybe around 102 times so far.

    oop, the manual says there are known issues with MySQL.

    estj - so its not good for us? its not gonna work? can you give me the link to the manual?

    intj - here you go. look at link X.

    estj - hang on, i have to put this link in a notepad in my dropbox folder.

    intj - ok

    estj - i have too many folders and files, i am losing track of it all

    intj - let me organize it for you

    estj - no, no, i got it now. do you see it in your dropbox, i put it under your folder

    intj - i don't use the dropbox. i use our vault, so should you, its secure and auto backed up. its ok, as long as your not putting sensitive credentials there

    estj - its also secure and encrypted. i am sure they won't lose the data. i have XYZ backup program for my computer anyhow.

    intj - sure, but its external, we built our own now. are you storing your credentials in dropbox?

    estj - i have to learn all that suff again.we will get there soon.hang on. (Yells some instructions to someone halfway across the floor asking that X need not join the meeting)
    OKAY, so its not going to work for us?

    intj - it will work, i am sure

    estj - but you said it doesn't work if we use MySQL.

    intj - i did not, but there are some settings to be done for MySQL.I just read up on it.

    estj - i thought you did say that. it sounded like you said that. so you think you can set it up now?

    intj - no, not now, later. i will read up first.

    estj - ok send that list when you have it done, i'll finalize it.

    intj - ok

    estj - you have the support number to call? i just emailed it to you along with their working hours for your reference.
    how is your neck pain? did you start the yoga exercise yet? I used to have that, its all about posture and i find that this yoga excercise really helps.

    intj - ok

    estj - thank you for everything, i really appreciate it.I have another meeting to jump ontolater in the hour, i could use the time to prepare something for it.OK, i will talk to you soon, bye bye.

    intj - ok, bye.

    2 days later - new meeting with X, ESTJ and INTJ

    estj - hi how are you? X, how are things? You did a good job with that issue last week.

    X - thanks

    estj - OK, lets get started, where are we at?

    intj - ok , we got the primary goals and then other goals set out. we are gonna configure and get it all done now.

    estj - right. everybody should have that file open.X, do you have it before you?

    X - yes

    estj - ok, so you know how to configure it

    intj - we are gonna try

    [technicalities and blah ... until everything is pretty much done, except for some setting]

    X - let me re read page x to see how thats done

    estj - i have been playing with it, i know how, here, let me show you.

    I told you this was just like program X. I am real good at finding and doings things.

    2 second silence

    Thats what I do, get things done.I may not be in your league in this area, but i am pretty good at it, whaddya say?

    intj - yes, you are good.

    estj - ok, X will train Y and Z on it, so we have someone round the clock that knows this stuff. Have you tested the access control?

    intj - the access controls work.

    estj - but did you test it out, see if someone else can get in and use the program?

    intj - no, but if this isn't working, then everything else about it will be broken too, so its bound to work.

    estj - i think we should test it. X will test it when you get a chance. INTJ's time is too valuable to be used for this.
    Ok, thats a nice piece of work. thanks. so we can go ahead and buy it, i will tell A to buy it. OK?

    intj - ok

    estj - alright, we are all set here now. thank you, i have to run out for an hour or more now, my son is here, going to grab a bite to eat with him.Hows your baby doing, X? How old is she now?

    X and ESTJ start to discuss various baby stats, milestones and advice etc. INTJ tries to tune out and then interrupts

    INTJ - 'OK, i gotta go now, bye'

    X - ok, bye

    ESTJ - bye bye
    “By our stumbling, the world is perfected.”
    ― Sri Aurobindo
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  3. #2123
    lords of summer EJCC's Avatar
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    @devaf, my general thoughts:

    • This is VERY familiar, and almost exactly how I work -- right down to the abrupt tone shifts (lighthearted Ne humor to Te "ok let's get things done NOW")
    • The points of type-related conflict are exactly what I would have expected for an INTJ and an ESTJ -- namely, the ESTJ going "Why aren't you giving me all the information?" and the INTJ going "Why can't you see this shit coming from a mile away??"
    • You clearly have a very different opinion on the ESTJ's strengths and weaknesses than the ESTJ does. The two of you NEED to have a talk about that, since from these interactions and from the thread you made earlier, it looks like that's breeding resentment. Not in the ESTJ, because the ESTJ is oblivious. But in you.
      Edit: Do you guys do performance reviews? That would be a good time to have that conversation.
    Last edited by EJCC; 12-22-2014 at 10:57 AM. Reason: elaboration, and also grammar/formatting
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  4. #2124
    lords of summer EJCC's Avatar
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    Oh no, missed these!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mademoiselle View Post
    What’s your opinion about friendship?
    In general? What do you mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by Osalo View Post
    I suspect this is a broad ST problem. Feeling overwhelms objectivity which then warps our senses. Kind of like when I get sick of waiting for pasta to boil and then a giant mound of foam ASPLODES out from underneath the lid. It's like a starchy volcano until it cools down, whereupon the terrifying mess evaporates. I have a hard time determining if my metaphor works or not. I should really just go to bed...
    I like the image, either way. I also like the idea of seeing my feelings as a "starchy volcano".

    Quote Originally Posted by aliciacan View Post
    Thanks for doing this thread! I've only been identifying as an ESTJ (instead of an ISTJ) recently, and this has been incredibly helpful in verifying that I really am an ESTJ. I actually joined the forums because I had been binging on this topic, haha.
    No problem! Glad it's been helpful!

    FWIW I've been mistyping as an ISTJ a lot, recently. Maybe it's a gender thing. Female ESTJs aren't quite as domineering as male ESTJs in my experience.

    (You still around the forum, by the way?)
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  5. #2125
    Junior Member devaf's Avatar
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    @EJCC

    This is actually a fictional piece written from imagination. Intended as a humorous piece, thats why I didn't post in the previous thread or link back to that. I am very glad to see that you think its accurate insofar as type traits are concerned. I am immediately concerned with validating typing of people. In other words, that its not so unscientific as it can sometimes be made out as. I was trying to write to see if my understanding of the traits are on target. There is no resentment, according to me. If there is such anything I will tell it immediately, not brood over things. What makes the ESTJ think there is resentment? I ask because you are not the first one I know, LOL, who thinks I am upset at something in all these transactions.
    The performance reviews may be a good idea. Of course we administer these, but not participate, ha ha. The accountant is our performance review thus far.
    The last question for you: Did you enjoy the piece? I'd like to write more in future to include other types.
    “By our stumbling, the world is perfected.”
    ― Sri Aurobindo

  6. #2126
    noʎ ɟo ǝʇnɔ ʍoH Mademoiselle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    In general? What do you mean?


    In general, also what does it mean to you, and how do you practice it in your personal life?
    Imagine this is the best thing you've ever read.

  7. #2127
    lords of summer EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mademoiselle View Post


    In general, also what does it mean to you, and how do you practice it in your personal life?
    I'll give the first answer/set of answers that comes to mind, since going with my gut is probably going to give an answer that's more "true to type":

    • Being "a good friend" is something that, at a particular friendship point, I feel obligated to be, and I feel like my friends should be as well. In a good friendship, my friend and I will be
      • relatively easy to open up to
      • willing to open up; not overly closed-off; not hard to read
      • loyal and kind
      • objective and honest (which IMO is more loyal than refusing to question the friend)
      • trustworthy
      • respectful, e.g. with the other's time, energy, feelings
    • Friendly acquaintanceship is when I meet someone who I click with, enjoy talking to, enjoy being around, etc. A person who I find easy to interact with, whose presence is refreshing and not effortful/burdensome.
    • Medium level friendship is when 1) I have a deeper understanding of the person to the point that I am fairly confident that I can trust them and open up to them a bit, and 2) they have proven to be "a good friend" by the earlier definition.
    • Close friendship is measured by the usual definitions: completely comfortable to be around, no awkwardness or attempts to fill the silence, being there for them feels like an honor more than a burden, feelings of admiration and love whenever we're together.
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!
    Likes Mademoiselle liked this post

  8. #2128
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    estj - hang on, i have to put this link in a notepad in my dropbox folder.

    intj - ok

    estj - i have too many folders and files, i am losing track of it all
    OMG, this is exactly me! I put *everything* in Evernote, I have hundreds of notes to keep track of all my information. I have found that I can't remember anything unless I write it down or otherwise save it somewhere. Yet I find it SO hard to organize them and to be able to quickly refer to some information that I've saved in the past. This drives me crazy.

    I would love it if someone could come with an awesome organizational system to use, and then I would be more than happy to do the actual process of organizing it, but coming up with that initial idea is so hard for me.

    The S is strong in me.
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  9. #2129
    Aspiring polymath asynartetic's Avatar
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    Why do you guys micromanage?

  10. #2130
    lords of summer EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starcrash View Post
    Why do you guys micromanage?
    TBH I try not to. The way I try to manage people is to check in every once and a while and see how they're doing, especially if they have any questions. (I'm used to working with people who get tunnel-vision when they work, and who might not think to ask for help.)

    If/when I do micromanage, it's because I don't trust the person to do every step correctly, and I feel like they might need my help at every step. I stop micromanaging as soon as I know that I don't need to.
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

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