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Thread: Ask an ESTJ!

  1. #2001
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    (Also, sorry about the essay earlier, @fidelia -- I hope it helped, at least a little!)
    Oh indeed it did. Sorry for my repetetiveness. I think part of it is that if I don't really understand something right away, it sits around (sometimes for years) until I am ready to revisit it and then it synthesizes better. If I can't summarize something to myself, it doesn't really make sense and then it doesn't stick. I appreciate you taking the time to do that. I have been away for awhile, and so just noticed this now.

  2. #2002
    Expensive Handbasket Redbone's Avatar
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    My ESTJ seems to be (again!) at a cross-roads in his life. He seems to questioning why he is doing what he is doing, particularly in his relationship. A kind of "I work and I slave...what love do I get in return? Why am I doing this when it's no longer making me happy?" Like a Te burn-out?
    He tries to compensate by finding things that make him feel good, usually something artistic (he's a pretty gifted musician and wonderfully creative) but I don't think it's helping him in the long-term.

    Have you ever felt like this? Feeling like you're doing, going, marking off your check-list only to find there is nothing on there that has to do with your personal happiness? Or feel like you're the strong one helping everyone else out but when it's your turn, there's no one there for you?

  3. #2003
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    How often in person is your greatness recognized?

    I have an ESTx friend that seems to be definitively known as the epitome of human engineering. I'm wondering if it's type related.

  4. #2004
    [bento boxed] EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superunknown View Post
    How often in person is your greatness recognized?

    I have an ESTx friend that seems to be definitively known as the epitome of human engineering. I'm wondering if it's type related.
    It would be a bit self-serving and arrogant to say "yes" to this. Plus... although I do think that ESTJs are pretty impressively machinelike overall -- give self order to complete task, then complete task, rinse, repeat, endlessly -- there are way too many other factors to take into account.

    As for the previous question... Friends and friendly coworkers do, enough that it's 100% certain where they stand. (They especially do this if I ever show a hint of self-doubt or humility.) But I don't exactly have random strangers come up to me, saying "You are a marvel of a person."
    Quote Originally Posted by Redbone View Post
    My ESTJ seems to be (again!) at a cross-roads in his life. He seems to questioning why he is doing what he is doing, particularly in his relationship. A kind of "I work and I slave...what love do I get in return? Why am I doing this when it's no longer making me happy?" Like a Te burn-out?
    He tries to compensate by finding things that make him feel good, usually something artistic (he's a pretty gifted musician and wonderfully creative) but I don't think it's helping him in the long-term.

    Have you ever felt like this? Feeling like you're doing, going, marking off your check-list only to find there is nothing on there that has to do with your personal happiness? Or feel like you're the strong one helping everyone else out but when it's your turn, there's no one there for you?
    Your instinct is right that it's burnout. Telltale sign of inferior Fi rearing its ugly head in times of stress = feeling like no one cares about you, and you're fighting, endlessly and pointlessly, alone.

    I think we dig our own grave in this regard. We work as hard as we can to provide for others without any willingness or consideration of allowing others to care for us -- see the above answer to @superunknown (look how impressive we are! how do we DO it? well, not with any help from you folks!) -- so when we finally do need someone to lean on, we feel as if there's no one there. Maybe we're right, and we've built a structure based solely on our own efforts, to the point that there truly is no one around who is prepared to help. Or maybe we're wrong, and the only barrier is our own sense of pride.

    From my experience with this feeling -- and boy, do I have experience with it -- it's a problem with a simple enough solution, which is to find yourself a parachute, or airbag, or other lifesaving metaphor. A mechanism or a person that can take over for you, so you don't feel like you're absolutely required to do everything. Or a person who you can lean on emotionally, who can give you strength in tough times, and who won't judge you for opening up to them.
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  5. #2005
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    How do you feel about ENTJs - does their general philosophy of constructivism (or in the evil ones destructivism) appeal or resonate with you?

  6. #2006
    [bento boxed] EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poimandres View Post
    How do you feel about ENTJs - does their general philosophy of constructivism (or in the evil ones destructivism) appeal or resonate with you?
    How are you defining destructivism and constructivism?
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  7. #2007
    Expensive Handbasket Redbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Your instinct is right that it's burnout. Telltale sign of inferior Fi rearing its ugly head in times of stress = feeling like no one cares about you, and you're fighting, endlessly and pointlessly, alone.

    I think we dig our own grave in this regard. We work as hard as we can to provide for others without any willingness or consideration of allowing others to care for us -- see the above answer to @superunknown (look how impressive we are! how do we DO it? well, not with any help from you folks!) -- so when we finally do need someone to lean on, we feel as if there's no one there. Maybe we're right, and we've built a structure based solely on our own efforts, to the point that there truly is no one around who is prepared to help. Or maybe we're wrong, and the only barrier is our own sense of pride.

    From my experience with this feeling -- and boy, do I have experience with it -- it's a problem with a simple enough solution, which is to find yourself a parachute, or airbag, or other lifesaving metaphor. A mechanism or a person that can take over for you, so you don't feel like you're absolutely required to do everything. Or a person who you can lean on emotionally, who can give you strength in tough times, and who won't judge you for opening up to them.
    Thank you for this. I figured it was.

    I think he's in a place where he is just going through the motions. Particularly with his SO. Doing the actions but his belief in them has slipped away. I asked how long could he keep this up and he said he'd know when he got there.

    He has the same kind of arrogant-like thinking when it comes to problem solving (I'll blame it on us sharing the same strong family trait instead of MBTI ) that I do--"I can fix anything!" so it's hard to put something down when we're convinced we can make it work. It's shocking to realize that despite our force of will and right actions, we still may be powerless to make things okay.

    He also spoke of how he has tried to tell some people he was really hurting and in need of support and they response was like, 'yeah sure you do!' What you wrote above definitely applies.

  8. #2008
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    What are your life ambitions as an ESTJ?

  9. #2009
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    Woo, delayed reply

    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    What are your life ambitions as an ESTJ?
    Won't even try to separate Enneagram and MBTI ambitions -- they mesh too much.

    That being said... In no particular order:

    - Do what I love
    - Become The Best Person I Can Be (within reason)
    - Make a tangible difference
    - Be useful
    - Be valued (personally and professionally)

    Unless you wanted specifics, in which case the list would be MUCH longer.
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  10. #2010
    climb on Showbread's Avatar
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    I have an ESTJ 1w2 father and we really can't seem to agree on anything... What would you say are some of the biggest differences between you and some of the ESFJs you know? Particularly in the way you view things like politics and various humanitarian issues?
    Friends, waffles, work

    "The problem is, when you depend on a substitute for love, you can never get enough" - Louis Cozolino

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