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Thread: Ask an ESTJ!

  1. #1951
    Row row row your boat Array SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    What's the best way to make an oblivious ESTJ notice that you like them? Just for future reference
    I'm not sure. Maybe going out of your way to do something nice for him?

    Is it safe to say that an ESTJ guy would probably be quite forceful and straightforward about it if he was really seriously interested?
    Maybe. Or he could be a nervous wreck and beat around the bush.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    As a male ESTJ, what would you do if you liked a female?
    I guess I'd ask her out if she was available. That's just hypothetical though. Due to my life being in disarray, I don't think I will actually be dating any time in the near future.

    And, what might make you consider someone/not consider someone romantically?
    Well, I think the advice in The Art of Manliness is solid.
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  2. #1952
    Lay the coin on my tongue Array SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD45T-2 View Post
    I'm not sure. Maybe going out of your way to do something nice for him?

    Maybe. Or he could be a nervous wreck and beat around the bush.

    I guess I'd ask her out if she was available. That's just hypothetical though. Due to my life being in disarray, I don't think I will actually be dating any time in the near future.

    Well, I think the advice in The Art of Manliness is solid.
    Thanks! I'll torture you no more. I've looked at The Art of Manliness briefly and found it quite fun. I'm going to look again.
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  3. #1953
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Thanks! I'll torture you no more. I've looked at The Art of Manliness briefly and found it quite fun. I'm going to look again.
    I got the book a couple years ago: http://www.amazon.com/Art-Manliness-...5355907&sr=1-2

    The book doesn't have everything the site does, but it's got the essentials.
    1w2-6w5-3w2 so/sp

    "I took one those personality tests. It came back negative." - Dan Mintz

  4. #1954
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    All right, gonna try and answer this one, see how I do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    It was an admittedly vague turn of phrase. Hmm. Say you were solving a problem. What is your process like? How does Si inform what ideas you take to be relevant?

    I'm assuming there's overlap in how we do things because of Te, but I'm not sure how much. For instance, data collection is a big part of how I go about solving problems. I consciously avoid reinventing the wheel, so I want to be informed as possible. I'm pretty certain that an ESTJ would do the same thing, so I'm trying to figure out at what point our respective approaches to problem solving really diverge. I mean, even defining goals and outcomes is a trait that I attribute to Te. So I'm assuming that the difference has to do with how we assemble or model the information that we get.

    I'm also curious how Tert Ne works for you guys.

    What do you think?
    I think that when I'm solving a problem, the bolded is usually not on my mind. What's usually on my mind, is this series of questions:

    1. What is the problem?
    2. What is the best solution to this problem?
    3. Do present conditions and resources allow for the best solution?
    4. If no, then what is the next best solution, given these restrictions?

    I make a point of not obsessing over #2, because I try to keep it simple, e.g. by making sure that what qualifies something as the "best" is something simple and quantifiable, such as efficiency or cost minimization. The step that takes the most time, that I do tend to obsess over, is #4. That step takes resourcefulness and creativity, which is where my Ne comes in. (The one way that I can be creative, that consistently impresses my N friends, is finding solutions to little problems by using whatever's lying around.)

    Hope that helps. :/ If not, just let me know and I'll try again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørrsken impersonating EJCC
    It's strange. I keep banning morons, but they keep signing up? What is this?
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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  5. #1955
    my floof is luxury Array Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    All right, gonna try and answer this one, see how I do.

    I think that when I'm solving a problem, the bolded is usually not on my mind. What's usually on my mind, is this series of questions:

    1. What is the problem?
    2. What is the best solution to this problem?
    3. Do present conditions and resources allow for the best solution?
    4. If no, then what is the next best solution, given these restrictions?

    I make a point of not obsessing over #2, because I try to keep it simple, e.g. by making sure that what qualifies something as the "best" is something simple and quantifiable, such as efficiency or cost minimization. The step that takes the most time, that I do tend to obsess over, is #4. That step takes resourcefulness and creativity, which is where my Ne comes in. (The one way that I can be creative, that consistently impresses my N friends, is finding solutions to little problems by using whatever's lying around.)

    Hope that helps. :/ If not, just let me know and I'll try again.
    Really illuminating. Thank you for getting back to me about this.
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  6. #1956
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-Up Rex View Post
    Really illuminating. Thank you for getting back to me about this.
    No problem!

    Even outside of the forum, and outside of the MBTI/Enneagram, I tend to have a hard time figuring out what I've always known, vs. what everyone has always known. (I regularly make the reverse mistakes of 1. instructing people on how to do very basic things that they've always known how to do, and 2. leaving people completely in the dark on things that I assumed they knew. ) Which is why I wasn't sure if I'd answered your question, and why I'm very happy to have been helpful in the end.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørrsken impersonating EJCC
    It's strange. I keep banning morons, but they keep signing up? What is this?
    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  7. #1957
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    I am an INFJ. My daughter is an ESTJ. I clash a lot with her, yet some sources say we should be best friends. She likes bluntness but gets mad when I am blunt, which is not my usual style. Any suggestions about how not to set her off, but still get messages across to her? She doesn't like me to "beat around the bush".

  8. #1958
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jan333 View Post
    I am an INFJ. My daughter is an ESTJ. I clash a lot with her, yet some sources say we should be best friends. She likes bluntness but gets mad when I am blunt, which is not my usual style. Any suggestions about how not to set her off, but still get messages across to her? She doesn't like me to "beat around the bush".
    Firstly -- welcome to the forum!

    Secondly -- I laughed when I read this post, because my mother is an INFJ and we have had similar issues to this. The issue is, that for ESTJs, there can be a fine line between blunt truth-telling and harsh accusation. We are direct and honest because it's for the good of other people and the work they do -- and we claim that we can take what we give -- but if we can't tell that the other person's motives are the same, and we can't tell that the other person still thinks highly of us despite everything, then we get defensive. We see the other person's comment as an attack, and an insult, and not as something constructive.

    Some of this is inherent in ESTJ/INFJ relationships because of how Fi and Fe interact with one another; if something goes wrong, Fe-users like INFJs are more interested in accountability, making sure the other person knows what they did wrong and "don't do it again" -- whereas Fi-users like ESTJs are more interested in figuring out the thought process behind the incorrect action, so the thought process can be corrected. It's more process-oriented, than results-oriented. Which is why, when I've done something wrong, I've often had clashes after the fact, with my mom, because I'll try to explain myself (so she can correct my thought process), and she'll see it as making excuses, and will shut me down and just tell me to never make the same mistake. So, some of your ESTJ's defensiveness likely comes from situations like that, where she'd feel like you didn't care what you had to say, and were like a judge refusing to hear the defendant's evidence.

    Generally, though, I would suggest that you emphasize the good, in the direct honesty you give her. Continue to be direct, but make sure she knows that you aren't judging her, and aren't trying to make her feel guilty. If she tries to explain herself, remember that she isn't making excuses, but is instead throwing out evidence for you to judge as valid or invalid. Acknowledging her intentions as being good, but telling her where her methodology was off, strikes a nice balance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørrsken impersonating EJCC
    It's strange. I keep banning morons, but they keep signing up? What is this?
    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  9. #1959
    girl with a pretty smile Array Honor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jan333 View Post
    I am an INFJ. My daughter is an ESTJ. I clash a lot with her, yet some sources say we should be best friends. She likes bluntness but gets mad when I am blunt, which is not my usual style. Any suggestions about how not to set her off, but still get messages across to her? She doesn't like me to "beat around the bush".
    To be honest with you, it sounds more like this is a phase of childhood/young adulthood where one is annoyed by everything one's parents say. My mom is ISTP, so I can't completely relate. If anything, I ask her to be less blunt in her criticism. But, I feel like it's a pretty universal experience to go through a time period when whatever your parents say, it's annoying. My advice is to keep telling her in a straightforward way what the issues are - simple, logical explanations are best. Give her the opportunity to discuss her objections with you. Reassure her that you're not trying to be mean and you still love her no matter what. <- This is what would work on me anyway.

  10. #1960
    Meat Tornado Array DiscoBiscuit's Avatar
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    I'm kind of seeing an ESTJ now...

    You guys are fun (and surprisingly funny when the mood strikes).

    Hope things continue on.

    EDIT - she also thinks I'm an ISTP (she's not the first)
    Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays, instead of serving you, if he sacrifices it to your opinion.
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