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Thread: Ask an ESTJ!

  1. #1901
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typoz View Post
    I thought that was Se? New external experiences.
    Only if you're "in the zone" and fully immersed in the experience. Usually I'm not. I'm as immersed in my own thoughts and feelings about the new place, as I am in the new place itself.
    Woman on woman, that's what I don't get. Man on man, that's manly stereotyping and yes - testosterone.
    I never specified the gender of the person getting yelled at.
    Regardless of the gender of the person getting yelled at, I don't understand when women yell at bad drivers.
    Unfortunately I don't know that person that well. I remember him being happy about it, smiling, especially when he saw that he was in the top most hated members of the forum. I think it's more Fe-like, I don't think an Fi user would enjoy it, an Fi user would try to make it "right" instead. He was genuinely having fun by doing it.
    I've seen that sort of trolling from INTJs, though. They get the moral enjoyment from Fi (i.e. punishing them for doing the thing that they don't like), while getting Ni enjoyment from the thrill of "how will they react next??".
    Well personally I do rely on those little decisions. For example, if that was me he'd be driving to a store, I'd plan tomorrow: "okay, so around 1PM he's gonna pick me up, I'm gonna be at the store at around 1:30, gonna choose what I need and I should be out at 1:40-1:50, then he drives me back, so I'm gonna be home at around 2:20." Sure if I'm not doing anything, it wouldn't have much change. But even if I'm not doing anything, for example (and this is experience in similar situations), I do not start a new level in a video game, I don't watch a show episode, I don't start writing a long reply, I don't start an important chat, etc. say 30min before it. So it still does impact my day, even if it is as small as that. Basically, I waste my time because of that, and I hate wasting time ("Wasting my life..." thread is somewhat related).
    Wow, I do not plan my days minute-to-minute like that. I like having a little bit of room to stretch out. At the very least it makes things less stressful when people are tardy and/or things don't go as planned. (When your best friend is an ENFP and your dad is an INTP, you learn these things. )

    I do try to be considerate; if I say "I'm going to lunch at 11:45" to a friend and then they say they'll meet me there, I'll meet them there even if I would have rather eaten at a different time. But if no friends are involved and it's just me, I might go "I'm not hungry now, so I'll study before lunch instead of after, and maybe eat at 1." Those are the little things that I change around all the time -- and it's all from suddenly "not being in the mood".
    Well I think he's slow-paced because he doesn't want to get too hot-headed (he gets there really quick sometimes) and because he wants to get his point across. Maybe he thinks that everyone else is an idiot? I don't know.

    Here are some thoughts: He often gets angry, goes on about what he's angry about for a minute or so. Say a driver "what the fuck is he think that fucking idiot," etc., he can go on for a minute or even longer like that. When he was younger, he used to come around the time of Easter, Christmas and his birthday, visit the grandparents, my parents, so he would get better presents. He would appear nice, but wouldn't manipulate. Later on, probably around 18, he began asking to bake something he liked.

    Since he's 18, when he comes to a celebration, he comes, says hi, smiles a lot, hurries up to eat (eats a lot), and is first to go through the door, 15-30 minutes before anyone else goes out (celebration usually lasts about 30-60 minutes).

    He also does things like avoiding the questions that he doesn't know the answers to. He says "well who knows about _____," instead of "I don't know," which is what I say.

    I think he's a much better fit for ESTJ than for an ENTJ, ESFJ or ENFJ. I don't think he's an introvert because he's rather loud - the getting angry stuff. He also likes hanging out with a few of his friends, organizing meetings, going to the clubs, doing drugs, etc..

    I think you can at least somewhat relate to this.
    Here are the only things I relate to in your post:

    - Hanging out with friends, organizing meetings, going to clubs
    - Often getting angry.

    Besides that, there's a lot I don't relate to. I think the way he treats the family seems very selfish and inconsiderate, and I don't relate to it at all. He also seems pretty bad at being concise -- a trait that I thought ESTJs were naturally gifted at. If I go off on a several minute rant at someone, it doesn't involve me saying the same thing over and over, and it never is from anything as simple as a bad driver. There's only so much you can say about a bad driver: "They drove really poorly. What's up with that??" Maybe I'd rant a little about bad drivers in general, i.e. broadening the topic a little, but even then that adds, what, thirty seconds maximum? And if I'm really ranting about something that annoys me, I'll be talking as fast as I think; my slow and deliberate speech is something I save for emotional dealings, when I have to be very careful with my words for fear of walking all over someone's feelings.
    Question 1: Do you care much how you look? For example, would you stand around, turn left and right, touch your hair, etc., in front of a mirror for 30-60s before going out? Likely making some kind of "control" face.
    Definitely.
    Question 2: Do you take in information from someone, make an opinion and give an advice to someone who you think needs one while ignoring him saying "you don't know the details?"
    I don't ignore them saying "you don't know the details". When they say that, my reaction is always "Well then tell me! I can't give you good advice if you don't give me all the data!"

    Generally, though, I do give advice based on the information I have at the moment -- because I presume that people aren't keeping data from me. Sometimes that presumption is correct, and sometimes it isn't.
    Question 3: Do you avoid questions like "do you believe in god?"
    Questions like "do you believe in god"? What questions are similar to that? Do you mean, probing questions? Philosophical questions?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørrsken impersonating EJCC
    It's strange. I keep banning morons, but they keep signing up? What is this?
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  2. #1902
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typoz View Post
    I thought that was Se? New external experiences.
    Only if you're "in the zone" and fully immersed in the experience. Usually I'm not. I'm as immersed in my own thoughts and feelings about the new place, as I am in the new place itself.
    Woman on woman, that's what I don't get. Man on man, that's manly stereotyping and yes - testosterone.
    I never specified the gender of the person getting yelled at.
    Regardless of the gender of the person getting yelled at, I don't understand when women yell at bad drivers.
    Unfortunately I don't know that person that well. I remember him being happy about it, smiling, especially when he saw that he was in the top most hated members of the forum. I think it's more Fe-like, I don't think an Fi user would enjoy it, an Fi user would try to make it "right" instead. He was genuinely having fun by doing it.
    I've seen that sort of trolling from INTJs, though. They get the moral enjoyment from Fi (i.e. punishing them for doing the thing that they don't like), while getting Ni enjoyment from the thrill of "how will they react next??".
    Well personally I do rely on those little decisions. For example, if that was me he'd be driving to a store, I'd plan tomorrow: "okay, so around 1PM he's gonna pick me up, I'm gonna be at the store at around 1:30, gonna choose what I need and I should be out at 1:40-1:50, then he drives me back, so I'm gonna be home at around 2:20." Sure if I'm not doing anything, it wouldn't have much change. But even if I'm not doing anything, for example (and this is experience in similar situations), I do not start a new level in a video game, I don't watch a show episode, I don't start writing a long reply, I don't start an important chat, etc. say 30min before it. So it still does impact my day, even if it is as small as that. Basically, I waste my time because of that, and I hate wasting time ("Wasting my life..." thread is somewhat related).
    Wow, I do not plan my days minute-to-minute like that. I like having a little bit of room to stretch out. At the very least it makes things less stressful when people are tardy and/or things don't go as planned. (When your best friend is an ENFP and your dad is an INTP, you learn these things. )

    I do try to be considerate; if I say "I'm going to lunch at 11:45" to a friend and then they say they'll meet me there, I'll meet them there even if I would have rather eaten at a different time. But if no friends are involved and it's just me, I might go "I'm not hungry now, so I'll study before lunch instead of after, and maybe eat at 1." Those are the little things that I change around all the time -- and it's all from suddenly "not being in the mood".
    Well I think he's slow-paced because he doesn't want to get too hot-headed (he gets there really quick sometimes) and because he wants to get his point across. Maybe he thinks that everyone else is an idiot? I don't know.

    Here are some thoughts: He often gets angry, goes on about what he's angry about for a minute or so. Say a driver "what the fuck is he think that fucking idiot," etc., he can go on for a minute or even longer like that. When he was younger, he used to come around the time of Easter, Christmas and his birthday, visit the grandparents, my parents, so he would get better presents. He would appear nice, but wouldn't manipulate. Later on, probably around 18, he began asking to bake something he liked.

    Since he's 18, when he comes to a celebration, he comes, says hi, smiles a lot, hurries up to eat (eats a lot), and is first to go through the door, 15-30 minutes before anyone else goes out (celebration usually lasts about 30-60 minutes).

    He also does things like avoiding the questions that he doesn't know the answers to. He says "well who knows about _____," instead of "I don't know," which is what I say.

    I think he's a much better fit for ESTJ than for an ENTJ, ESFJ or ENFJ. I don't think he's an introvert because he's rather loud - the getting angry stuff. He also likes hanging out with a few of his friends, organizing meetings, going to the clubs, doing drugs, etc..

    I think you can at least somewhat relate to this.
    Here are the only things I related to in this quote:

    - Hanging out with friends, organizing meetings, going to clubs
    - Often getting angry.

    Besides that, there's a lot I don't relate to. I think the way he treats the family seems very selfish and inconsiderate, and I don't relate to it at all. He also seems pretty bad at being concise -- a trait that I thought ESTJs were naturally gifted at. If I go off on a several minute rant at someone, it doesn't involve me saying the same thing over and over, and it never is from anything as simple as a bad driver. There's only so much you can say about a bad driver: "They drove really poorly. What's up with that??" Maybe I'd rant a little about bad drivers in general, i.e. broadening the topic a little, but even then that adds, what, thirty seconds maximum? And if I'm really ranting about something that annoys me, I'll be talking as fast as I think; my slow and deliberate speech is something I save for emotional dealings, when I have to be very careful with my words for fear of walking all over someone's feelings.
    Question 1: Do you care much how you look? For example, would you stand around, turn left and right, touch your hair, etc., in front of a mirror for 30-60s before going out? Likely making some kind of "control" face.
    Definitely! Checking to see if I like the proportions of the outfit I'm wearing, fluffing my hair a little, touching up the lip color...

    (The ESTJ guy you know does that?? )
    Question 2: Do you take in information from someone, make an opinion and give an advice to someone who you think needs one while ignoring him saying "you don't know the details?"
    I don't ignore them saying "you don't know the details". When they say that, my reaction is always "Well then tell me! I can't give you good advice if you don't give me all the data!"

    Generally, though, I do give advice based on the information I have at the moment -- because I presume that people aren't keeping data from me. Sometimes that presumption is correct, and sometimes it isn't.
    Question 3: Do you avoid questions like "do you believe in god?"
    Questions like "do you believe in god"? What questions are similar to that? Do you mean, probing questions? Philosophical questions?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørrsken impersonating EJCC
    It's strange. I keep banning morons, but they keep signing up? What is this?
    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  3. #1903
    Senior Member Array UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    I want to have angry sex with an estj. How would I go about accomplishing this goal?
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  4. #1904
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I've seen that sort of trolling from INTJs, though. They get the moral enjoyment from Fi (i.e. punishing them for doing the thing that they don't like), while getting Ni enjoyment from the thrill of "how will they react next??".
    Well, that's my another bet after ESTJ - INTJ.

    Wow, I do not plan my days minute-to-minute like that. I like having a little bit of room to stretch out. At the very least it makes things less stressful when people are tardy and/or things don't go as planned. (When your best friend is an ENFP and your dad is an INTP, you learn these things. )

    I do try to be considerate; if I say "I'm going to lunch at 11:45" to a friend and then they say they'll meet me there, I'll meet them there even if I would have rather eaten at a different time. But if no friends are involved and it's just me, I might go "I'm not hungry now, so I'll study before lunch instead of after, and maybe eat at 1." Those are the little things that I change around all the time -- and it's all from suddenly "not being in the mood".
    Well I don't plan my actions like that. I plan things that involve other people, appointments, etc.. Or if it involves me going somewhere. What I mean is that I wouldn't plan things like "I'm gonna work until 12PM, then I'm taking lunch until 12:45, then going back to work and working until 4PM. I'm going to the store on my way home, so I'm gonna be home at 4:45. I'm gonna order a pizza and watch Boardwalk Empire until 5:50PM, then I'm gonna take a shower and play Counter Strike at 6:30PM."

    When it's an appointment or I know that I will meet somebody, etc., that's when the planning starts. Take the example from my previous post. If I'd start doing something, say watching a show, I'd have to stop in the middle of it to be there on time. Or I'd have to stop coding in the middle of it. Or I'd have to say "be right back in an hour" in the middle of a conversation, etc.. Therefore, I choose to do something that wouldn't feel as interrupted when I have to go as what I would be doing otherwise, which usually is a waste of time for me.

    Questions like "do you believe in god"? What questions are similar to that? Do you mean, probing questions? Philosophical questions?
    Philosophical, maybe a bit personal too.

    ---

    Anyway, seems like the ESTJ is quite close to his personality, but he's a bit... Slower and hot-headed. I see an INTJ as a possibility too, but I don't see him as an intuitive. My experience with S types is that I often have to rephrase what I'm saying for them to understand, or if not that, they misunderstand me (especially SJ types). SPs get me a bit more often, or maybe they just don't want the minor conflict and go with it. Ns, however, do tend to understand me half-sentence in. My experience with Ns is limited though, mostly that's experience with an ENFJs, INFx types, minor experience with others. And S types, mostly experience with ESFJs, ISTJs, ISTPs, ESTPs, ISFJs.

    If you have experience with intuitives, do you feel like you don't understand something they're telling you? As in asking them what they meant or misunderstanding them but thinking that you understood them but finding out that you didn't?

  5. #1905
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    I love you ESTJs!

  6. #1906
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typoz View Post
    Philosophical, maybe a bit personal too.
    Oh, okay. I don't tend to avoid those questions. I answer them openly, unless I distrust the other person's motives. For example, if they were asking me if I believed in god, and they were an evangelical atheist, then I would answer warily and with the expectation that a fight would start. I wouldn't answer quite as thoroughly as I might with someone I trusted to listen and be respectful.
    Anyway, seems like the ESTJ is quite close to his personality, but he's a bit... Slower and hot-headed. I see an INTJ as a possibility too, but I don't see him as an intuitive.
    I would agree that he seems more STJ -- though I could see ISTJ as well -- because of what you said about his tendency to give unsolicited advice. That's much, much more of a thing with STJs than NTJs.
    If you have experience with intuitives, do you feel like you don't understand something they're telling you? As in asking them what they meant or misunderstanding them but thinking that you understood them but finding out that you didn't?
    I have a lot of experience with intuitives -- my parents are INTP and INFJ. I would say that generally I'm very good at understanding intuitives, and following their trains of thought. When I'm in situations where someone doesn't understand another's train of thought, it's more likely that others don't understand my train of thought, than the other way around.

    The only times I don't get N trains of thought, are with Ni users, especially INTJs. I would argue that that's because, if my understanding of dominant Ni is correct, their standard operating procedure is to act with the expectation of a huge number of possible responses from others. I'll get confused when they make a vague statement, or ask me a vague question, because it won't be clear to me what they're expecting of me -- and the answer will be, they aren't really expecting anything, or they're expecting any number of things, and are waiting to be surprised. Ne doesn't do that, and Ne I can understand.
    Quote Originally Posted by Giggly View Post
    I love you ESTJs!
    Aww We love you too!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørrsken impersonating EJCC
    It's strange. I keep banning morons, but they keep signing up? What is this?
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    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  7. #1907
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Oh, okay. I don't tend to avoid those questions. I answer them openly, unless I distrust the other person's motives. For example, if they were asking me if I believed in god, and they were an evangelical atheist, then I would answer warily and with the expectation that a fight would start. I wouldn't answer quite as thoroughly as I might with someone I trusted to listen and be respectful.
    Well that definitely wasn't the case...

    I would agree that he seems more STJ -- though I could see ISTJ as well -- because of what you said about his tendency to give unsolicited advice. That's much, much more of a thing with STJs than NTJs.
    ISTJs, in my experience at least, seem very uptight - no parties, no calling up friends and organizing meetings, etc.. Maybe he's a 50% I/E, or perhaps 50% I/E and 50% T/F... ESTJ, so far, is the closest I could get. With your help, I had a bit different image about an ESTJ in mind earlier.

    I have a lot of experience with intuitives -- my parents are INTP and INFJ. I would say that generally I'm very good at understanding intuitives, and following their trains of thought. When I'm in situations where someone doesn't understand another's train of thought, it's more likely that others don't understand my train of thought, than the other way around.

    The only times I don't get N trains of thought, are with Ni users, especially INTJs. I would argue that that's because, if my understanding of dominant Ni is correct, their standard operating procedure is to act with the expectation of a huge number of possible responses from others. I'll get confused when they make a vague statement, or ask me a vague question, because it won't be clear to me what they're expecting of me -- and the answer will be, they aren't really expecting anything, or they're expecting any number of things, and are waiting to be surprised. Ne doesn't do that, and Ne I can understand.
    Interesting. Well plus one for those who say I'm an NJ then. Also, it turns out that ENFJs are Ni users, which would explain why we could understand each other so well. I wonder how well Ne users can understand Ni users or vice-versa.

  8. #1908
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typoz View Post
    ISTJs, in my experience at least, seem very uptight - no parties, no calling up friends and organizing meetings, etc.. Maybe he's a 50% I/E, or perhaps 50% I/E and 50% T/F... ESTJ, so far, is the closest I could get. With your help, I had a bit different image about an ESTJ in mind earlier.
    I'm glad.

    Check out the rest of this thread -- or at least, as much of it as you care to tackle -- if you want a fuller picture. There's a shit-ton of data in here! And the earlier posts are a good representation of less-developed ESTJ mentality, as I was still in my late teens when I created it. (I'm 22 now.)
    Interesting. Well plus one for those who say I'm an NJ then. Also, it turns out that ENFJs are Ni users, which would explain why we could understand each other so well. I wonder how well Ne users can understand Ni users or vice-versa.
    I definitely see you as ENTJ from your forum communication, mostly because I see more Ni than Ne in you. I was surprised when so many people thought you were INTP.

    As for Ne/Ni communication: there's very often a communication breakdown there. Someone may have created a thread about it, though it's possible that a thread got derailed into talking about it once.

    I'd recommend the forum threads about Ne/Ni, and also the "Ask an INTJ" thread (because I don't think there's an "Ask an ENTJ" thread?), if you wanted more data on it to help you make your self-typing decision.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørrsken impersonating EJCC
    It's strange. I keep banning morons, but they keep signing up? What is this?
    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  9. #1909
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I'm glad.

    Check out the rest of this thread -- or at least, as much of it as you care to tackle -- if you want a fuller picture. There's a shit-ton of data in here! And the earlier posts are a good representation of less-developed ESTJ mentality, as I was still in my late teens when I created it. (I'm 22 now.)
    Yea, I was planning on doing that. I like reading "ask an XXXX" threads. The "You know you're an XXXX when..." threads are the "worse" version of them, it's more general, contains posts by other types, or falsely-self-typed members, etc..

    I definitely see you as ENTJ from your forum communication, mostly because I see more Ni than Ne in you. I was surprised when so many people thought you were INTP.
    Well my writing style seems to be INTP-ish, makes me wonder how can writing style differ from a person.

    As for Ne/Ni communication: there's very often a communication breakdown there. Someone may have created a thread about it, though it's possible that a thread got derailed into talking about it once.

    I'd recommend the forum threads about Ne/Ni, and also the "Ask an INTJ" thread (because I don't think there's an "Ask an ENTJ" thread?), if you wanted more data on it to help you make your self-typing decision.
    Well I'm looking for a direct example. I have tried reading an INTJ thread somewhere else (can't remember, I think it was some INTJ forum), but it was a bit boring. There was a lot of reference to various signs, symbols, a little mysticism, etc.. That's definitely not my thing. I may attempt to read it over here though, that's a good idea.

  10. #1910
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typoz View Post
    Well my writing style seems to be INTP-ish, makes me wonder how can writing style differ from a person.
    I don't know, you write more concisely than an INTP, I think. (I also see no Fe in you whatsoever, and INTPs sometimes have a little bit of a charmer tendency that dry NTJs don't have as much.)

    Of course, I'm biased, and so are the people who think you're INTP... so...
    Well I'm looking for a direct example. I have tried reading an INTJ thread somewhere else (can't remember, I think it was some INTJ forum), but it was a bit boring. There was a lot of reference to various signs, symbols, a little mysticism, etc.. That's definitely not my thing. I may attempt to read it over here though, that's a good idea.
    You could also just ask the INTJs about your own behavior, in the same way that you just did with me and your ESTJ friend.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørrsken impersonating EJCC
    It's strange. I keep banning morons, but they keep signing up? What is this?
    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

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