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Thread: Ask an ESTJ!

  1. #1891
    Row row row your boat SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    A friend's mom (I don't know her type) in her very detailed daily plans, blocks out 20 minute chunks to "be spontaneous".
    Wow. I was actually joking about how much I don't plan.
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  2. #1892
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    @EJCC: my "planning" usually consists of baking, making decorations etc... and he believes crafts are synonymous for failure. Despite me showing times and again *I* am able to bring them to a good end. And that *I* enjoy crafts, even if they fail, I've had a good time.
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  3. #1893
    lords of summer EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamske View Post
    my "planning" usually consists of baking, making decorations etc... and he believes crafts are synonymous for failure. Despite me showing times and again *I* am able to bring them to a good end. And that *I* enjoy crafts, even if they fail, I've had a good time.
    This makes no sense to me. He should be taking his judgments from past experiences -- so if you have shown time and again that you succeed at crafts, then he should know that you're good at them and they don't mean failure. Does he have some sort of issue with crafts as a concept? Has he ever elaborated on his feelings in that regard?
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

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  4. #1894
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    This makes no sense to me. He should be taking his judgments from past experiences -- so if you have shown time and again that you succeed at crafts, then he should know that you're good at them and they don't mean failure. Does he have some sort of issue with crafts as a concept? Has he ever elaborated on his feelings in that regard?
    About issues with crafts: he thinks he's clumsy. He's got a lifetime of doing (and hating) exercises to improve fine motoric skills, and being teased by his older sisters about it. Truth is, he isn't as clumsy as he thinks, and if he doesn't realize one has to be "handy" in order to do some task, he'll do it without any problems.
    And most of the time, when repairing things or doing crafts, you have to try a few times, or they don't turn out as good as you thought, or (worst) you've got to interrupt because you fall short on some item or another. I guess his main problem is that they always take more time than you initially think. And of course, crafts are a chore to be completed as soon as possible...
    I know, and he knows, well enough that the other one enjoys other things, but it's quite hard to convince ourselves that the other doesn't need rescuing from it.

    We've talked a bit and we'll try this: I'll tell about all a month in advance, so he knows what to expect.
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  5. #1895

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    @EJCC

    Situation 1:

    You have observational experience of your parents talking to your cousin. The cousin, disliking the control (or whatever were his reasons, I think he's an INFx), lies to your parents about things like good grades at school and makes a lot of promises just to end the argument, as in "okay, I will take a shower today," or "okay, I will learn more," or "okay, I will dress nicely," etc., but doesn't do it. There's also his mom, talking to your parents, telling them a lot of things about how his actions aren't socially "normal."

    Now, you observe all that and you make an obvious opinion about him - lies a lot, cannot be trusted, doesn't follow through with his promises and plans, doesn't listen, doesn't do the "logical" thing, isn't practical, doesn't care if he looks nice, doesn't stand up for himself, is a "loser," etc..

    Now 5-8 years later (he was around 13-16 at the time), you interact with him.

    What is your opinion of him? Do you still have the same opinion? Do you assume that he's changed? Do you even consider the possibility that he could've changed? Do you consider re-evaluating him or do you assume that he's the same? Any other thoughts on this?

    Situation 2:

    You took your grandparents to a family meeting (celebration, and you have a car) and you're walking with them at the parking lot. There's a guy backing up, and he didn't wait for your grandmother to go, he just continued parking and so she moved away a bit so he could park (a bit slow, coordination's a bit off, she's old!). Would you shout at the driver or say something to him? Would you feel enraged at him?

    Situation 3:

    It's your car. You're driving your granddad and your dad to a family meeting. Your granddad is fat and old, so he sits in the front - there's more space. But he's old and he's confused about fastening the seat-belt when going TO the family meeting, after 5 minutes you stop and fasten the seat-belt for him (so cops wouldn't charge you if they'd see no seat-belt on). Your dad, sitting in the back, is paranoid about the cops catching you and tells you that he should've sat in the front and grandpa should've sat in the back instead during those 5 minutes when he was trying to fasten the seat-belt.

    When you're coming back, your dad rushes to the front and takes the front seat. Your grandpa has to go to the back, gets in, but doesn't complain - he's an ISFJ. What do you do? Do you shout at your dad (ExFP) for taking the front seat, even though you have told him repeatedly that you want your grandpa to sit in the front?

    Extra question 1:

    Do you go on about something that you disapprove of for 1-2 minutes, even after you've explained it? Example would be going on about your dad taking the front seat in Situation 3, talking about it for 30-60s with short pauses. "why did you do it? I've told you not to do it. He's uncomfortable!" etc..

    Extra question 2:

    Are you forgetful about what you've told someone, or what someone has told you?

    Extra question 3:

    Would you ever consider of trolling a forum of a certain societal group just because you don't like them? Say a goth forum (the guys with pink hair, lots of earrings, etc.).

    If the above answer is positive, would you be proud if there was a list of "most hated members" and you were in it?

  6. #1896
    lords of summer EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typoz View Post
    Situation 1:

    You have observational experience of your parents talking to your cousin. The cousin, disliking the control (or whatever were his reasons, I think he's an INFx), lies to your parents about things like good grades at school and makes a lot of promises just to end the argument, as in "okay, I will take a shower today," or "okay, I will learn more," or "okay, I will dress nicely," etc., but doesn't do it. There's also his mom, talking to your parents, telling them a lot of things about how his actions aren't socially "normal."

    Now, you observe all that and you make an obvious opinion about him - lies a lot, cannot be trusted, doesn't follow through with his promises and plans, doesn't listen, doesn't do the "logical" thing, isn't practical, doesn't care if he looks nice, doesn't stand up for himself, is a "loser," etc..

    Now 5-8 years later (he was around 13-16 at the time), you interact with him.

    What is your opinion of him? Do you still have the same opinion? Do you assume that he's changed? Do you even consider the possibility that he could've changed? Do you consider re-evaluating him or do you assume that he's the same? Any other thoughts on this?
    I could see some particularly judgmental ESTJs thinking that he'd be exactly the same now. People who support, for example, trying minors as adults in court (which is something that I don't support). However, I believe -- in part from personal experience -- that people can mature a LOT between early/mid teens and early adulthood. I'd give him another shot.
    Situation 2:

    You took your grandparents to a family meeting (celebration, and you have a car) and you're walking with them at the parking lot. There's a guy backing up, and he didn't wait for your grandmother to go, he just continued parking and so she moved away a bit so he could park (a bit slow, coordination's a bit off, she's old!). Would you shout at the driver or say something to him? Would you feel enraged at him?
    I'd be annoyed at him for being an inconsiderate driver -- but you have to pick your battles. Yelling at him wouldn't change anything; in fact, I'd look like the crazy one and he'd look like he was in the right.
    Situation 3:

    It's your car. You're driving your granddad and your dad to a family meeting. Your granddad is fat and old, so he sits in the front - there's more space. But he's old and he's confused about fastening the seat-belt when going TO the family meeting, after 5 minutes you stop and fasten the seat-belt for him (so cops wouldn't charge you if they'd see no seat-belt on). Your dad, sitting in the back, is paranoid about the cops catching you and tells you that he should've sat in the front and grandpa should've sat in the back instead during those 5 minutes when he was trying to fasten the seat-belt.

    When you're coming back, your dad rushes to the front and takes the front seat. Your grandpa has to go to the back, gets in, but doesn't complain - he's an ISFJ. What do you do? Do you shout at your dad (ExFP) for taking the front seat, even though you have told him repeatedly that you want your grandpa to sit in the front?
    I would be a little frustrated, but not extremely angry. I wouldn't say anything about it in the car, because I wouldn't want to say it in front of my sensitive ISFJ granddad. What I would say afterwards would be something like: Why did you do that? It's really not that hard for me to buckle him up. Frankly, I could have just buckled him up before we started the car -- that would have solved the problem and been less awkward for everyone, than your unsubtle display back there. Would you please let me do that next time?
    (I would also wait for an explanation after I asked him why, and if his explanation was good, then the rest of the statement would be void. If not, then I'd respond to his excuse and go on with the shpiel.)
    Extra question 1:

    Do you go on about something that you disapprove of for 1-2 minutes, even after you've explained it? Example would be going on about your dad taking the front seat in Situation 3, talking about it for 30-60s with short pauses. "why did you do it? I've told you not to do it. He's uncomfortable!" etc..
    Only if I thought it would help him understand. When I do things like that -- and I don't think I do that very often? -- it's because it's serious enough that it warrants more explanation, especially if I feel like they don't know why what they did was wrong. In this case, I don't think I would, because it's clear from his behavior that my dad knew exactly what he was doing and what the response would be; it wouldn't help to tell him the emotional fallout because he clearly anticipated that, or at least didn't care, and I'd be annoyed enough with him to not want to waste the energy on correcting his apathy (because I doubt it'd make a difference).
    Extra question 2:

    Are you forgetful about what you've told someone, or what someone has told you?
    Increasingly so, the less important the things in question are. I never forget the personal things I tell people, because it's such an event to tell them personal things. But the less important those things are, the less it matters that I waste the brain space on it. Hence, a common statement from me: "Have you seen _____? ... Oh, you haven't? Weird, I thought I'd shown that to you!"... and that statement probably happens every day to every other day.
    Extra question 3:

    Would you ever consider of trolling a forum of a certain societal group just because you don't like them? Say a goth forum (the guys with pink hair, lots of earrings, etc.).

    If the above answer is positive, would you be proud if there was a list of "most hated members" and you were in it?
    No offense intended if you're this sort of person -- but I find that behavior to be rude and a waste of time. I mean, what satisfaction do you get from it? Are you attempting to shame those people into changing their ways?? And why would you do that when it's such an unimportant thing that you're trying to shame them out of? Even if it was an important thing, there are better ways to convince them, ways that take less effort and aren't quite so asshole-ish.

    I want to be respected, in everything I do. Doing shit like that will earn me disrespect -- which I know because I tend to not respect people who do that. So doing that would be counterintuitive. (Not to mention I'd feel bad afterwards.)
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  7. #1897

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    What do you guys like doing for fun? Why?

  8. #1898

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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I could see some particularly judgmental ESTJs thinking that he'd be exactly the same now. People who support, for example, trying minors as adults in court (which is something that I don't support). However, I believe -- in part from personal experience -- that people can mature a LOT between early/mid teens and early adulthood. I'd give him another shot.
    But before giving another shot, would you be a hard-ass on him for a period of time? On the other hand, that probably would fall under the particularly judgmental.

    I'd be annoyed at him for being an inconsiderate driver -- but you have to pick your battles. Yelling at him wouldn't change anything; in fact, I'd look like the crazy one and he'd look like he was in the right.
    Well, my thoughts exactly - the crazy one was the shouting one in that situation. It was close to the point of physical intimidation, but that person was still in the car, just had his window half-open.

    I would be a little frustrated, but not extremely angry. I wouldn't say anything about it in the car, because I wouldn't want to say it in front of my sensitive ISFJ granddad. What I would say afterwards would be something like: Why did you do that? It's really not that hard for me to buckle him up. Frankly, I could have just buckled him up before we started the car -- that would have solved the problem and been less awkward for everyone, than your unsubtle display back there. Would you please let me do that next time?
    (I would also wait for an explanation after I asked him why, and if his explanation was good, then the rest of the statement would be void. If not, then I'd respond to his excuse and go on with the shpiel.)
    I see, so basically it would be a conversation. What if the person has no good explanation and keeps saying "well it's just?" Would you keep talking or leave him alone?

    Only if I thought it would help him understand. When I do things like that -- and I don't think I do that very often? -- it's because it's serious enough that it warrants more explanation, especially if I feel like they don't know why what they did was wrong. In this case, I don't think I would, because it's clear from his behavior that my dad knew exactly what he was doing and what the response would be; it wouldn't help to tell him the emotional fallout because he clearly anticipated that, or at least didn't care, and I'd be annoyed enough with him to not want to waste the energy on correcting his apathy (because I doubt it'd make a difference).
    ...So you wouldn't go about it just for the sake of it. Hm, I think that's an Ne thing. I'm not sure though.

    Increasingly so, the less important the things in question are. I never forget the personal things I tell people, because it's such an event to tell them personal things. But the less important those things are, the less it matters that I waste the brain space on it. Hence, a common statement from me: "Have you seen _____? ... Oh, you haven't? Weird, I thought I'd shown that to you!"... and that statement probably happens every day to every other day.
    What if you give an advice to someone? What if someone would tell you something that is actually interesting to you, but is about that person. Would you forget it or remember it?

    No offense intended if you're this sort of person -- but I find that behavior to be rude and a waste of time. I mean, what satisfaction do you get from it? Are you attempting to shame those people into changing their ways?? And why would you do that when it's such an unimportant thing that you're trying to shame them out of? Even if it was an important thing, there are better ways to convince them, ways that take less effort and aren't quite so asshole-ish.
    No intention, just for fun. Just something to do in the evening... But I think not then. I wonder if this could be an ENFJ behavior. Hm, some people are very hard to type. I'm still gonna ask a few questions regardless the inconsistencies.

    And I'm not, I'm trying to type someone. I don't know him well and he's... Varied. So it's quite hard.

    I want to be respected, in everything I do. Doing shit like that will earn me disrespect -- which I know because I tend to not respect people who do that. So doing that would be counterintuitive. (Not to mention I'd feel bad afterwards.)
    But you are unknown on the forums, so technically it wouldn't. However, feeling bad is still there.

    ---

    1. Do you like sci-fi? Fantasy? Talking about movies/books here. Do you like video games?

    2. Do you ever say you're gonna do something a day before and the next day you do it differently or don't do it? Don't carry out little promises? And I mean that the day before you are sure that you are gonna do it.

    2. Example 1:

    You say that you're gonna give a present to your grandma after you take her to the family meeting, but you do it before.

    2. Example 2:

    You promise to you're gonna take your grandma to a store tomorrow (she needs to buy medication) but the next day you tell her that you will not do it because simply you wanna visit a store yourself (not for meds). Grandma will get her meds the next day (she's doesn't need it immediatly).

    3. When you give an advice to someone, do you go on about them for 2-3-4 minutes or so? I mean mostly non-stop in a rather, seemingly forcefully, slow pace of voice?

    4. Do you ever repeat yourself, when getting a point across or giving an advice? Maybe in the same words, maybe different words... That's through phone, so you can't see their body language, but the person is showing with the use of voice intonation and wording that he gets what you mean, even can say things like "I think exactly the same," etc..

    ---

    Appreciate the answers.

  9. #1899
    lords of summer EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamske View Post
    About issues with crafts: he thinks he's clumsy. He's got a lifetime of doing (and hating) exercises to improve fine motoric skills, and being teased by his older sisters about it. Truth is, he isn't as clumsy as he thinks, and if he doesn't realize one has to be "handy" in order to do some task, he'll do it without any problems.
    And most of the time, when repairing things or doing crafts, you have to try a few times, or they don't turn out as good as you thought, or (worst) you've got to interrupt because you fall short on some item or another. I guess his main problem is that they always take more time than you initially think. And of course, crafts are a chore to be completed as soon as possible...
    I know, and he knows, well enough that the other one enjoys other things, but it's quite hard to convince ourselves that the other doesn't need rescuing from it.

    We've talked a bit and we'll try this: I'll tell about all a month in advance, so he knows what to expect.
    That makes sense, I suppose, especially in light of the bolded. Maybe someday it'll make more sense to him...
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleda View Post
    What do you guys like doing for fun? Why?
    Me personally, or ESTJs in general?

    If me personally: I like socializing, doing crafts/artistic projects, playing and listening to music, researching things, doing new and fun things with friends e.g. trying new food and traveling to places I've never been (thus working out my Ne)... etc. etc. etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Typoz View Post
    But before giving another shot, would you be a hard-ass on him for a period of time? On the other hand, that probably would fall under the particularly judgmental.
    I think I would act cold towards him initially, due to being suspicious of him, and due to being busy watching for new (and old) behaviors. But that would be it.
    Well, my thoughts exactly - the crazy one was the shouting one in that situation. It was close to the point of physical intimidation, but that person was still in the car, just had his window half-open.
    Yeah, there's no point to that. I don't get those people. With women I especially don't get it; with guys I assume that it's testosterone run amok.
    I see, so basically it would be a conversation. What if the person has no good explanation and keeps saying "well it's just?" Would you keep talking or leave him alone?
    It all depends. I think I'd keep talking to him until either

    1) he convinced me that his way was, if not as good as my way, then roughly equivalent to it;
    2) it seemed like if I told him to do things my way from now on, he'd agree to; or
    3) I realized that he was hopeless and I couldn't get through to him.

    I wouldn't stop until I reached one of those three conclusions.
    ...So you wouldn't go about it just for the sake of it. Hm, I think that's an Ne thing. I'm not sure though.
    I'm not sure if anyone does that for the sake of it.

    I think it's either Fe or Fi, honestly. It would be Fi if they were trying to make you realize that your motivation was wrong, and it would be Fe if they were telling you outright that your actions were wrong, and not to do them again. Fi types would also be receptive to excuses, because that would mean that they were getting a fuller picture of where you were coming from mentally when you did what you did. Whereas Fe users would not tolerate that shit. (I know this from experience, as an Fi child of two Fe parents.)
    What if you give an advice to someone? What if someone would tell you something that is actually interesting to you, but is about that person. Would you forget it or remember it?
    I would definitely remember that. That would permanently shape my impression of that person, in terms of their character as well as our personal history.
    No intention, just for fun. Just something to do in the evening... But I think not then. I wonder if this could be an ENFJ behavior. Hm, some people are very hard to type. I'm still gonna ask a few questions regardless the inconsistencies.

    And I'm not, I'm trying to type someone. I don't know him well and he's... Varied. So it's quite hard.
    What you were describing was trolling, and I think any type could have fun trolling people -- even ESTJs.
    But you are unknown on the forums, so technically it wouldn't. However, feeling bad is still there.
    I wouldn't be unknown after I'd started trolling them. Then, they'd know me for behavior worthy of disrespect.
    1. Do you like sci-fi? Fantasy? Talking about movies/books here. Do you like video games?
    Yes, yes, and yes. I used to like video games a lot more than I do now, but I still really enjoy them socially. Sometimes I'll pick up old favorites when I'm in the mood, which is once a year or so.
    2. Do you ever say you're gonna do something a day before and the next day you do it differently or don't do it? Don't carry out little promises? And I mean that the day before you are sure that you are gonna do it.
    Very, very often. But only with the little promises, and only when other people aren't relying on those decisions.
    2. Example 1:

    You say that you're gonna give a present to your grandma after you take her to the family meeting, but you do it before.

    2. Example 2:

    You promise to you're gonna take your grandma to a store tomorrow (she needs to buy medication) but the next day you tell her that you will not do it because simply you wanna visit a store yourself (not for meds). Grandma will get her meds the next day (she's doesn't need it immediatly).
    I wouldn't do either of those, but that's just me, I think. My decision not to do those would be based on my attitudes towards family members, trips to buy medication, and gift-giving -- all of which I would take very seriously, and not every ESTJ would.
    3. When you give an advice to someone, do you go on about them for 2-3-4 minutes or so? I mean mostly non-stop in a rather, seemingly forcefully, slow pace of voice?
    I'm generally not that long-winded or slow-paced.
    Sounds like when my INTP dad gives me advice, though.
    4. Do you ever repeat yourself, when getting a point across or giving an advice? Maybe in the same words, maybe different words... That's through phone, so you can't see their body language, but the person is showing with the use of voice intonation and wording that he gets what you mean, even can say things like "I think exactly the same," etc..
    I'm confused. So, he's the one giving advice, and you're the one making affirming noises to show that you understand them? But they repeat themselves anyway?
    Appreciate the answers.
    No problem at all.

    These questions seem a little bit surface-level, for typing questions. Maybe a typing thread would be better?
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  10. #1900

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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    If me personally: I like socializing, doing crafts/artistic projects, playing and listening to music, researching things, doing new and fun things with friends e.g. trying new food and traveling to places I've never been (thus working out my Ne)... etc. etc. etc.
    I thought that was Se? New external experiences.

    Yeah, there's no point to that. I don't get those people. With women I especially don't get it; with guys I assume that it's testosterone run amok.
    Woman on woman, that's what I don't get. Man on man, that's manly stereotyping and yes - testosterone.

    It all depends. I think I'd keep talking to him until either

    1) he convinced me that his way was, if not as good as my way, then roughly equivalent to it;
    2) it seemed like if I told him to do things my way from now on, he'd agree to; or
    3) I realized that he was hopeless and I couldn't get through to him.

    I wouldn't stop until I reached one of those three conclusions.
    That's significantly more rational than the real-life situation I had in mind. It was closest to the 3rd, but either it was very late, or it wasn't reached. Judging from the facial expression, it wasn't reached.

    I'm not sure if anyone does that for the sake of it.

    I think it's either Fe or Fi, honestly. It would be Fi if they were trying to make you realize that your motivation was wrong, and it would be Fe if they were telling you outright that your actions were wrong, and not to do them again. Fi types would also be receptive to excuses, because that would mean that they were getting a fuller picture of where you were coming from mentally when you did what you did. Whereas Fe users would not tolerate that shit. (I know this from experience, as an Fi child of two Fe parents.)
    Unfortunately I don't know that person that well. I remember him being happy about it, smiling, especially when he saw that he was in the top most hated members of the forum. I think it's more Fe-like, I don't think an Fi user would enjoy it, an Fi user would try to make it "right" instead. He was genuinely having fun by doing it.

    What you were describing was trolling, and I think any type could have fun trolling people -- even ESTJs.
    Well there's a description above. He was doing that for a couple weeks at least, probably longer. I remember him having over 200 posts or so.

    Very, very often. But only with the little promises, and only when other people aren't relying on those decisions.
    Well personally I do rely on those little decisions. For example, if that was me he'd be driving to a store, I'd plan tomorrow: "okay, so around 1PM he's gonna pick me up, I'm gonna be at the store at around 1:30, gonna choose what I need and I should be out at 1:40-1:50, then he drives me back, so I'm gonna be home at around 2:20." Sure if I'm not doing anything, it wouldn't have much change. But even if I'm not doing anything, for example (and this is experience in similar situations), I do not start a new level in a video game, I don't watch a show episode, I don't start writing a long reply, I don't start an important chat, etc. say 30min before it. So it still does impact my day, even if it is as small as that. Basically, I waste my time because of that, and I hate wasting time ("Wasting my life..." thread is somewhat related).

    I'm generally not that long-winded or slow-paced.
    Sounds like when my INTP dad gives me advice, though.
    Well I think he's slow-paced because he doesn't want to get too hot-headed (he gets there really quick sometimes) and because he wants to get his point across. Maybe he thinks that everyone else is an idiot? I don't know.

    I'm confused. So, he's the one giving advice, and you're the one making affirming noises to show that you understand them? But they repeat themselves anyway?
    Yea, he still goes on and on about it. I don't want to be the confronting me, he's got a car and once gave me $20 for something once.

    These questions seem a little bit surface-level, for typing questions. Maybe a typing thread would be better?
    Yea, I know. But since I think that he's an ESTJ, I think this is a good place to ask specific behavioral questions. Besides, I'm actually interested in such conversations - "what would you do..." I used to do it when I was chatting with an opposite sex when I was younger - a friend wanted me to understand how he can spend literally 10 hours straight on the phone with a girl. I still didn't get him after a couple of days.

    ---

    Here are some thoughts: He often gets angry, goes on about what he's angry about for a minute or so. Say a driver "what the fuck is he think that fucking idiot," etc., he can go on for a minute or even longer like that. When he was younger, he used to come around the time of Easter, Christmas and his birthday, visit the grandparents, my parents, so he would get better presents. He would appear nice, but wouldn't manipulate. Later on, probably around 18, he began asking to bake something he liked.

    Since he's 18, when he comes to a celebration, he comes, says hi, smiles a lot, hurries up to eat (eats a lot), and is first to go through the door, 15-30 minutes before anyone else goes out (celebration usually lasts about 30-60 minutes).

    He also does things like avoiding the questions that he doesn't know the answers to. He says "well who knows about _____," instead of "I don't know," which is what I say.

    I think he's a much better fit for ESTJ than for an ENTJ, ESFJ or ENFJ. I don't think he's an introvert because he's rather loud - the getting angry stuff. He also likes hanging out with a few of his friends, organizing meetings, going to the clubs, doing drugs, etc..

    I think you can at least somewhat relate to this.

    Question 1: Do you care much how you look? For example, would you stand around, turn left and right, touch your hair, etc., in front of a mirror for 30-60s before going out? Likely making some kind of "control" face.

    Question 2: Do you take in information from someone, make an opinion and give an advice to someone who you think needs one while ignoring him saying "you don't know the details?"

    Question 3: Do you avoid questions like "do you believe in god?"

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