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Thread: Ask an ESTJ!

  1. #1841
    Senior Member Array The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Yeah, exactly. ESTJs are all about objective facts, so they probably won't trust your analysis unless you convince them of the facts first.
    Personally. I like facts as well, but it's like I analyze facts and then pick out what I want to come to the conclusion of what I see as "The Truth". I guess I will adapt for the TJ types.

  2. #1842
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    Personally. I like facts as well, but it's like I analyze facts and then pick out what I want to come to the conclusion of what I see as "The Truth".
    Well, I wasn't saying you/other types aren't fans of facts. I'm just coming from an Si standpoint, I suppose.
    I guess I will adapt for the TJ types.
    Cool! Glad I could help

    and it's nice enough to
    make a man
    weep, but I don't
    weep, do
    you?


    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  3. #1843
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Well, I wasn't saying you/other types aren't fans of facts. I'm just coming from an Si standpoint, I suppose.

    Cool! Glad I could help
    Yep. I guess the other part I'm going to have to do, is just make a compelling argument right then and there. It seems like with Te doms, they look at the facts and then make a decision. Then, once that decision is made, it is final! That decision is air tight, and there is no constant reevaluation like a Ti user for instance.

  4. #1844
    i love Array skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    Yep. I guess the other part I'm going to have to do, is just make a compelling argument right then and there. It seems like with Te doms, they look at the facts and then make a decision. Then, once that decision is made, it is final! That decision is air tight, and there is no constant reevaluation like a Ti user for instance.
    I think it's less about airtight and more about efficiency of action. Ti is very precise, but SLOW AS MOLASSES.

  5. #1845
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    Yep. I guess the other part I'm going to have to do, is just make a compelling argument right then and there. It seems like with Te doms, they look at the facts and then make a decision. Then, once that decision is made, it is final! That decision is air tight, and there is no constant reevaluation like a Ti user for instance.
    It's final, and there's no constant reevaluation -- you're right about that -- but it doesn't have to be airtight. Obviously if the ESTJ messed up, and if it's possible to take back the messed up decision and try again, and it's a big freaking deal, the ESTJ will do it. But like skylights said...
    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    I think it's less about airtight and more about efficiency of action. Ti is very precise, but SLOW AS MOLASSES.
    True that! I'm pretty sure the official Ti motto is "No Detail Is Unnecessary".

    and it's nice enough to
    make a man
    weep, but I don't
    weep, do
    you?


    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  6. #1846
    Superwoman Array Red Herring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post

    True that! I'm pretty sure the official Ti motto is "No Detail Is Unnecessary".
    What's so funny about that? Are you saying there are also unnecessary details?
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  7. #1847
    Senior Member Array The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    I think it's less about airtight and more about efficiency of action. Ti is very precise, but SLOW AS MOLASSES.
    I wouldn't say it's slow. I would say that actually using Ti is fast, but it is slow in the regard that it keeps evaluating, and re-evaluating which can really annoy the hell out of Te users. For instance, my old ESTJ manager used to hate to go out to dinner with me. I would analyze the hell out of the menu and try to get the best, and most satisfying meal. I would constantly evaluate and re-evaluate and he eventually would grab my menu, give it back to the waitress. Then he'd look at the options that I was considering pick one and random and say, "He'll have this one". I hated going to dinner with him. Of course, I didn't really care that he did this because he would always pay for my meal.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    It's final, and there's no constant reevaluation -- you're right about that -- but it doesn't have to be airtight. Obviously if the ESTJ messed up, and if it's possible to take back the messed up decision and try again, and it's a big freaking deal, the ESTJ will do it. But like skylights said...

    True that! I'm pretty sure the official Ti motto is "No Detail Is Unnecessary".
    It just bothers me that your decisions are just so final, lol. It's like, how do make decisions that fast? Don't you need time to re-evaluate in case you made a poor decision?

  8. #1848
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    What's so funny about that? Are you saying there are also unnecessary details?
    I will use this as my rebuttal:


    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    I wouldn't say it's slow. I would say that actually using Ti is fast, but it is slow in the regard that it keeps evaluating, and re-evaluating which can really annoy the hell out of Te users. For instance, my old ESTJ manager used to hate to go out to dinner with me. I would analyze the hell out of the menu and try to get the best, and most satisfying meal. I would constantly evaluate and re-evaluate and he eventually would grab my menu, give it back to the waitress. Then he'd look at the options that I was considering pick one and random and say, "He'll have this one". I hated going to dinner with him. Of course, I didn't really care that he did this because he would always pay for my meal.
    Typical ESTJ manager.

    Out of curiosity... is each subsequent re-evaluation from the same perspective, and/or regarding the same factors? What would be an example of that thought process? I'm like skylights in that I thought it was just one big evaluation process, not a bunch of little short processes in a row.
    It just bothers me that your decisions are just so final, lol. It's like, how do make decisions that fast? Don't you need time to re-evaluate in case you made a poor decision?
    No, we make sure the decision isn't going to be poor, BEFORE we make it. That's why we have a reputation for being cautious. But why worry, when there's no turning back? If you can't do anything about it, it's not something you should be thinking about. It's unproductive.

    and it's nice enough to
    make a man
    weep, but I don't
    weep, do
    you?


    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  9. #1849
    Nips away your dignity Array Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Although I would like to say I complete you, I should say you complete me. What are the chances you are single and live right next door? *inquisitiveface*

  10. #1850
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    I wouldn't say it's slow. I would say that actually using Ti is fast, but it is slow in the regard that it keeps evaluating, and re-evaluating which can really annoy the hell out of Te users. For instance, my old ESTJ manager used to hate to go out to dinner with me. I would analyze the hell out of the menu and try to get the best, and most satisfying meal. I would constantly evaluate and re-evaluate and he eventually would grab my menu, give it back to the waitress. Then he'd look at the options that I was considering pick one and random and say, "He'll have this one". I hated going to dinner with him. Of course, I didn't really care that he did this because he would always pay for my meal.
    It's just slow for those of us who have to wait for you!

    I understand in the sense that Fi works the same way for me. It's very deliberate and it's very important to get as close to the ideal as possible. But because of all that refinement, it makes taking external action based on it a long process. My INTP dad is king of slow external action time. It took him 6 years to buy a car because he wanted to choose the absolute best one. And he did - 11 years later it's been his pride and joy and is still immaculate. But still, SIX YEARS.

    Even for me with tert Te I'm like let's do some quick calculations, make an informed decision, and run with it. The Ti deliberation to me feels like it's computing too many variables that are highly unlikely to ever actually have a major impact on the final result. I can only imagine how it feels for an ESTJ!

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