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Thread: Ask an ESTJ!

  1. #1831
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    This makes me think that my INFJ mom must be a 2w1; I thought she might be a 1w2, like me, at one point, but I've never gotten the ticking-time-bomb impression from her. In fact, I think I've only ever seen her blow up one time in my entire life; my 5w6 dad blows up more than her! She probably has a strong wing, though, because she acts like 1w2s when she messes something up (i.e. beating yourself over the head with guilt). The thing that had thrown me off was that she doesn't come across like the 2 stereotype of always-trying-to-help-everyone-and-be-self-sacrificing -- but the thing is, I think if she were a 1w2, she probably wouldn't be as much of a doormat as she is. (My mom is treated really poorly by most of the other faculty in the university department where she teaches, but she's so nonconfrontational that she ends up letting herself get walked all over, and then comes home at the end of the day to rant at my dad and I for hours about how it's all because the entire department is out to get her, and obviously none of it is because she's terrified of confrontation.)

    Do you have thoughts on it? Here is a thread I made a while back about her Enneagram type. I ask you because, since you have not one but TWO close INFJ 1w2 relatives, you probably know enough what they look like to tell if my mother is one of them.
    I read the description in the link – sure sounds like an INFJ 1w2 to me, although 2w1 is possible. Maybe she just handles stress better? How does she react when she feels her house/environment is in disorder despite all her efforts? I guess I would advise reading the core motivations/desires/needs for each, and not looking at her behavior so much as the reasons behind the behavior. This is what I did with my husband that helped me figure out he was a counterphobic 6 rather than an 8.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    If you don't mind my asking... was he like that when you first met him? And what did it take for him to change? Is he still in the process of working on it?
    We started dating our last year of college and got married that summer, so I didn’t see a whole lot of it before we were married. After we were married it kicked in and was like that for years. Honestly, he attributes it to an experience with God, and the fact that I started setting boundaries and getting a backbone while at the same time asserting that I loved him and was fully committed to the relationship. I think as a 6 that worked because he had both security and loyalty in that I obviously wasn’t leaving, yet I was asserting my own authority not to be treated that way. As a 9 I just kind of swept it under the rug, zoned out, and just tried to adapt around it for years, thinking if I just tried a little harder it would magically make him happy, even though people outside of the relationship were kinda like But eventually I started integrating and moving up in health, and he started seeking Jesus and got involved with great mentors at church, and he got healthier too. He’s still in the process of working on it, as am I, but we are very happy.

    Oh and upon further consideration, I think you're right that he's most likely so/sp.

  2. #1832
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mia. View Post
    I read the description in the link – sure sounds like an INFJ 1w2 to me, although 2w1 is possible. Maybe she just handles stress better? How does she react when she feels her house/environment is in disorder despite all her efforts?
    I think she does handle stress better; she seems to let stress out very consistently and deal with it as it comes, unless the stress has to do with people that she's around. Generally at the end of a stressful day, she'll come home and vent to me, and maybe make/buy comfort food.

    She does get very worried, though -- worry is more of a problem for her than stress is. Worry may build up, but it doesn't make you explode. And her kind of worry (i.e. ridiculous Ni worry, 75% of the time) can't be assuaged, because it's irrational, so that's the only thing I can think of that she has to repress and let build up.
    I guess I would advise reading the core motivations/desires/needs for each, and not looking at her behavior so much as the reasons behind the behavior. This is what I did with my husband that helped me figure out he was a counterphobic 6 rather than an 8.
    That's the problem. I think it depends! Here are some examples of major life decisions on her part:

    a) She got a job at a university across the country, she and my dad and I (at age two) took a moving van all the way from the east coast to the Rockies. She had been promised a tenure-track position, but they didn't give it to her when she got there. She complained to the (pretty damn psycho) department chair, who immediately decided that she was "uncontrollable" and that if anyone in the department allied with her, they might get fired. Needless to say, until the department chair retired, the environment among department faculty was almost Orwellian. But she didn't keep fighting back, and she didn't cut off her nose to spite her face (as I might have done in her position) -- but instead remained a department doormat for over ten years, because she's been afraid to do the necessary negotiating. She'll make excuses to herself, like "It won't make a difference, there's no point", even though she's never tried, and therefore would never know if it made a difference. She obviously has the INFJ martyr complex about it, but that hasn't led to a 1-style Justice Must Be Done Because This Has Gone On Long Enough attitude.
    So, this major life factor seems very 2.

    b) Part of why she has the job that she does -- i.e. teaching the organ -- is that she loves the instrument, but it's dying. Churches are losing their organs and gaining praise bands by the day, which is something that she is constantly raging against, and she feels like the one person whose shoulders the entire fate of the King of Instruments rests upon.
    This obviously seems very 1!

    So, that's my concern, I guess. She makes more 2-ish decisions than I do on a larger scale (since mine usually have more to do with how I interact with friends) -- but that could be because she's an INFJ.

    Edit: I think I'm biased on this topic, for a few reasons. Firstly, I can't get over how different we are in terms of motivation and how we handle stress and what act as catalysts in our lives. Secondly, my work study boss at my university is an INFJ 2w1 who reminds me a lot of my mom, in that I would never describe them as touchy-feely or nurturing, but they both enjoy the role of sensible mentor. They also handle stress similarly -- and they both tend to get too much on their plate because people give them a ton of work to do and neither of them can say no.
    (To be fair, it's possible that my boss mistyped herself and is actually 1w2, as well.)
    We started dating our last year of college and got married that summer, so I didn’t see a whole lot of it before we were married. After we were married it kicked in and was like that for years. Honestly, he attributes it to an experience with God, and the fact that I started setting boundaries and getting a backbone while at the same time asserting that I loved him and was fully committed to the relationship. I think as a 6 that worked because he had both security and loyalty in that I obviously wasn’t leaving, yet I was asserting my own authority not to be treated that way. As a 9 I just kind of swept it under the rug, zoned out, and just tried to adapt around it for years, thinking if I just tried a little harder it would magically make him happy, even though people outside of the relationship were kinda like But eventually I started integrating and moving up in health, and he started seeking Jesus and got involved with great mentors at church, and he got healthier too. He’s still in the process of working on it, as am I, but we are very happy.
    That's great! I'm so glad that ended up working out.

    and it's nice enough to
    make a man
    weep, but I don't
    weep, do
    you?


    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  3. #1833
    Earth Exalted Array Thursday's Avatar
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    Describe what irks you the most.
    I N V I C T U S

  4. #1834
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thursday View Post
    Describe what irks you the most.
    Tough question, since such a huge variety of things can irk me!

    But I guess on the (long) list of things that irk me, disrespect/rudeness would be number one. I'd put it in the number one slot because it's the only thing I can think of that consistently makes me angry enough to need to speak out about it immediately; with other things that make me angry, I can hold it in, and let it slide. But if you disrespect me or someone I care about, expect to hear from me about it.

    and it's nice enough to
    make a man
    weep, but I don't
    weep, do
    you?


    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  5. #1835
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thursday View Post
    Describe what irks you the most.
    Mosquitos. They have no redeeming qualities.
    1w2-6w5-3w2 so/sp

    "I took one those personality tests. It came back negative." - Dan Mintz

  6. #1836
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thursday View Post
    Describe what irks you the most.
    People with condescending attitudes. People who are unfair to others just to make a quick buck make me very angry as well.

  7. #1837
    Senior Member Array The Great One's Avatar
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    How do I convince an ESTJ that I have figured out a new and better way of doing something, and convince them to go with the new way other than what worked in the past. It seems like they always want to go with what worked in the past.

  8. #1838
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    How do I convince an ESTJ that I have figured out a new and better way of doing something, and convince them to go with the new way other than what worked in the past. It seems like they always want to go with what worked in the past.
    Be thorough. Give them as much data as you can, and data as trustworthy as you can find. If not, have answers to all of their skeptical questions. Use Te/Si logic with them: The other method has this and this, which aren't good. This method has this and this, which are better. So you should use the new method. Point A --> Point B --> Therefore, point C.

    and it's nice enough to
    make a man
    weep, but I don't
    weep, do
    you?


    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  9. #1839
    Senior Member Array The Great One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Be thorough. Give them as much data as you can, and data as trustworthy as you can find. If not, have answers to all of their skeptical questions. Use Te/Si logic with them: The other method has this and this, which aren't good. This method has this and this, which are better. So you should use the new method. Point A --> Point B --> Therefore, point C.
    So basically just use a lot of logical facts that don't take my analyzing to understand then? Then show them exactly how this new method would be more efficient?

  10. #1840
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    So basically just use a lot of logical facts that don't take my analyzing to understand then? Then show them exactly how this new method would be more efficient?
    Yeah, exactly. ESTJs are all about objective facts, so they probably won't trust your analysis unless you convince them of the facts first.

    and it's nice enough to
    make a man
    weep, but I don't
    weep, do
    you?


    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

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