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Thread: Ask an ESTJ!

  1. #1821

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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I'm not sure how universal this answer is going to be, since I have not one, but two personality typings that lend themselves to explosions of anger (i.e. ESTJ and type 1). But here's my theory:

    I've read in various places that ESTJs are the most likely type to constantly get angrier and more stressed throughout the day/week/month because they are constantly on the lookout for things being done incorrectly, and so many things are done incorrectly. But we don't really know how to let it out in a healthy way.
    .
    Yes, several stressful events in a row in a short period of time is especially hard for him. If I learn of something before he does, and I know he just dealt with something, if there is any possible way I will run covert damage control until some time goes by for him to recover from the first thing, then let him know about the next thing in a very calm and casual manner.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    But ESTJs are too task-oriented for that, and too resistant to dealing with emotions in a way that validates the emotions. The thought process is: "Emotions are only responses to things. The emotions will go away if the stimulus is removed. By fixing the things that are wrong, the stress will go away."
    .
    Hehe, it all traces back to me – I am the source of all incompetence in the universe.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    The other Thinking doms (IxTPs and ENTJs) are just as likely to repress their stress/anxiety and let it build up until it bursts out of them. And all the Thinking doms will maintain the illusion that they are being rational, when they blow up. They are all likely to let loose their built-up rage at one particular thing, and if they are healthy enough to acknowledge that they're angry at all, then they're going to cling to the idea that their anger is justified, and how dare you think that it isn't?? (Finally seeking validation -- only in their angriest moments!) ESTJs in particular may embrace their anger in the heat of the moment, seeing it as a tool of righteous justice. Sometimes (especially if they're type 1), they might recognize that this is an opportunity to say everything they were afraid to say before, when they were so self-contained and repressed. So my preliminary theory is that the reason why ESTJs have such explosive tempers is that they haven't had the F-based skills to deal with their anger, and by the time they let their anger loose, they've probably fantasized about letting it loose for days or weeks. (This isn't to say that they won't regret the outburst afterwards, b/c 99% of ESTJs do.) But honestly, I don't know why ESTJs would blow up more than other T-doms, except that, as I said before, there's more out in the world that makes them angry, because of their very particular standards -- and that introverts are not as explosive anyway.
    Dude…. Where have you hidden the cameras??

    The righteous justice part makes a lot of sense. My ESTJ has mellowed/softened considerably from how hot under the collar he would get years ago. I think his Fi has developed, as well as other things have happened in his life. It's really unfortunate that many people never get to see the sweet side of them and only see their anger.

  2. #1822
    Row row row your boat SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    @SD45T-2, why would you say you're so/sp?
    Because I score high on so and low on sx, and the so/sp description is pretty accurate for me.
    1w2-6w5-3w2 so/sp

    "I took one those personality tests. It came back negative." - Dan Mintz

  3. #1823
    lords of summer EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mia. View Post
    Yes, several stressful events in a row in a short period of time is especially hard for him. If I learn of something before he does, and I know he just dealt with something, if there is any possible way I will run covert damage control until some time goes by for him to recover from the first thing, then let him know about the next thing in a very calm and casual manner.
    That's a good idea! Does he know that you do that?

    Also, how do you react, after several stressful events in a row? Your first sentence makes it sound like you take it a lot better than he does.
    Hehe, it all traces back to me – I am the source of all incompetence in the universe.
    I'm sure that's not true -- and I'm sure he doesn't think that.
    Dude…. Where have you hidden the cameras??

    The righteous justice part makes a lot of sense. My ESTJ has mellowed/softened considerably from how hot under the collar he would get years ago. I think his Fi has developed, as well as other things have happened in his life. It's really unfortunate that many people never get to see the sweet side of them and only see their anger.
    Or at least, they see so much of the anger that they forget/ignore the sweet side.

    (p.s. If he was that hot under the collar as an adult, and if he really nags you to the degree that you suggest, I'm going to guess so/sp.)
    Quote Originally Posted by SD45T-2 View Post
    Because I score high on so and low on sx, and the so/sp description is pretty accurate for me.
    But how is it accurate? What did you relate to? What made you rule out sp/so, that didn't sound like you?
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  4. #1824
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    But how is it accurate? What did you relate to? What made you rule out sp/so, that didn't sound like you?
    I'd say my default setting is keeping track of what's going on in my community. I'm one of those nosy civic-minded dogooders.
    1w2-6w5-3w2 so/sp

    "I took one those personality tests. It came back negative." - Dan Mintz

  5. #1825

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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    That's a good idea! Does he know that you do that?
    I don’t think so. I don’t linger over the fact that there was a delay in the relation of the situation. I’ll just nonchalantly inform him and then inform him all I’ve already done to manage it. I guess at that point he knows there must have been some amount of time that elapsed, but the fact that someone is already dealing with it makes him not mind I suppose.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Also, how do you react, after several stressful events in a row? Your first sentence makes it sound like you take it a lot better than he does.
    I take it much better than he does. Often my biggest stress in the situation isn't the situation itself, but knowing his reaction also needs containing. He’s sensitive to stress and anything outside the routine or expected. He’s waaaaay more organized and disciplined than I am, but I think much better on my feet than he does and am much better in a crisis situation or at anticipating problems. I know it’s kind of counterintuitive, but in some ways I’m actually more realistic than he is even though he’s an S type, because I deal with disruptions in immediate reality better and can also readily accept and assimilate into my worldview possible future realities. I actually make it my business to anticipate problems and postulate about varying scenarios. He definitely anchors me in terms of the day-to-day expected aspects of living, though, which I benefit from immensely. Like the dishes. He's made me come toward the center in a desperately needed way in this area, because left to my own devices, everything is in disarray.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I'm sure that's not true -- and I'm sure he doesn't think that.
    Yes I know, ‘twas a joke milady.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Or at least, they see so much of the anger that they forget/ignore the sweet side.
    Right. Unfortunate. I never understand when people act like someone’s impermanent flaws somehow cancel out their inbuilt good aspects, of which there are many.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    (p.s. If he was that hot under the collar as an adult, and if he really nags you to the degree that you suggest, I'm going to guess so/sp.)
    Ahh, interesting. Yes, that would make sense… if so tends to give a fixation on others rather than self… is that the angle?

  6. #1826
    lords of summer EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mia. View Post
    I don’t think so. I don’t linger over the fact that there was a delay in the relation of the situation. I’ll just nonchalantly inform him and then inform him all I’ve already done to manage it. I guess at that point he knows there must have been some amount of time that elapsed, but the fact that someone is already dealing with it makes him not mind I suppose.
    Makes sense to me! I would react the same way. No reason to worry about it if it's being taken care of!
    I take it much better than he does. Often my biggest stress in the situation isn't the situation itself, but knowing his reaction also needs containing. He’s sensitive to stress and anything outside the routine or expected. He’s waaaaay more organized and disciplined than I am, but I think much better on my feet than he does and am much better in a crisis situation or at anticipating problems. I know it’s kind of counterintuitive, but in some ways I’m actually more realistic than he is even though he’s an S type, because I deal with disruptions in immediate reality better and can also readily accept and assimilate into my worldview possible future realities. I actually make it my business to anticipate problems and postulate about varying scenarios. He definitely anchors me in terms of the day-to-day expected aspects of living, though, which I benefit from immensely. Like the dishes. He's made me come toward the center in a desperately needed way in this area, because left to my own devices, everything is in disarray.
    That sounds like P+J pairing stuff -- and it makes sense. Perceivers usually seem a lot less stressed and tightly wound, and it's probably because they're so good at taking things as they come, in the moment. Js can have a lot of trouble thinking outside the structure box in comparison!

    How would you say your ESTJ compares with other Js you know, in that regard? I sometimes feel like I'm a ticking bomb, and your example of normalizing your ESTJ's stress sounds like maybe he's a bit of a ticking bomb too. Do you know other people like that?
    Yes I know, ‘twas a joke milady.
    Argh. I hate it when I do that.

    One of your first posts on this thread related to your husband's near constant criticism/nagging. Maybe you were exaggerating then, but I didn't know it at the time, and it worried me how resentful you seemed. I shrugged it off because you seemed to have so much affection for him and I thought maybe I was reading resentment into your posts that wasn't there -- but when you posted just now, I got to worrying again, because I noticed a trend. But I guess it wasn't really a trend?
    Right. Unfortunate. I never understand when people act like someone’s impermanent flaws somehow cancel out their inbuilt good aspects, of which there are many.
    Seriously! I feel the same way.
    Ahh, interesting. Yes, that would make sense… if so tends to give a fixation on others rather than self… is that the angle?
    I'm not sure. That was the impression I got.

    Thoughts from anyone else? Helpful links?
    Quote Originally Posted by SD45T-2 View Post
    I'd say my default setting is keeping track of what's going on in my community.
    Oh ok, that makes sense. Any and all communities?

    So if someone's default mode is dealing with their own problems -- possibly leading to forgetting that many of their friends exist for days at a time, during stressful periods -- then that means they likely aren't so/sp? (I ask because I tend to accidentally become a hermit when I'm stressed.)
    I'm one of those nosy civic-minded dogooders.
    Reminds me of a great quote from "The Wire":
    "A good church man is always up in everybody's shit. It's how we do."
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  7. #1827
    Row row row your boat SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Oh ok, that makes sense. Any and all communities?
    No, just the stuff I care about. My church, my city, the lunacy in Sacramento, stuff like that.

    So if someone's default mode is dealing with their own problems -- possibly leading to forgetting that many of their friends exist for days at a time, during stressful periods -- then that means they likely aren't so/sp? (I ask because I tend to accidentally become a hermit when I'm stressed.)
    That could be. As I said before, my guess is that you are sp/so.

    Reminds me of a great quote from "The Wire":
    "A good church man is always up in everybody's shit. It's how we do."
    Yep, I remember that.
    1w2-6w5-3w2 so/sp

    "I took one those personality tests. It came back negative." - Dan Mintz

  8. #1828

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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Makes sense to me! I would react the same way. No reason to worry about it if it's being taken care of!
    That’s good feedback to hear, thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    That sounds like P+J pairing stuff -- and it makes sense. Perceivers usually seem a lot less stressed and tightly wound, and it's probably because they're so good at taking things as they come, in the moment. Js can have a lot of trouble thinking outside the structure box in comparison!
    I would never want to be married to another P. I’d much rather have the situation of having an underdeveloped and overeager J opposite my underdeveloped ditzy P so that we can move toward the center together. It’s a lot of work to do so, and no doubt since people aren’t perfect some missteps will occur in implementation and then the fallout will have to be dealt with and fixed, but ultimately it makes for growth in a way that having twice my own weaknesses ala P on P action would never afford. I think Js and Ps are natural teammates.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    How would you say your ESTJ compares with other Js you know, in that regard? I sometimes feel like I'm a ticking bomb, and your example of normalizing your ESTJ's stress sounds like maybe he's a bit of a ticking bomb too. Do you know other people like that?
    Well my mother and sister in law are INFJ enneagram 1s, and they both are like that as well. Growing up we all had to manage my mom’s response in situations, because she wouldn’t take stress or any disruption/disarray in environment or plan well. The house had to be perfect at all times, for example. My sister-in-law is also very sensitive to stress and having things done just the right way. Her house is perfect at all times and she can be quite snarky, even though we get along well.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Argh. I hate it when I do that.

    One of your first posts on this thread related to your husband's near constant criticism/nagging. Maybe you were exaggerating then, but I didn't know it at the time, and it worried me how resentful you seemed. I shrugged it off because you seemed to have so much affection for him and I thought maybe I was reading resentment into your posts that wasn't there -- but when you posted just now, I got to worrying again, because I noticed a trend. But I guess it wasn't really a trend?
    Well I think everybody would know I was full of crap if I went around saying “Oh goody gumdrops!!! This is my favorite part of being married to a TJ!” And I probably have a bit of “PTSD” or “shellshock” from all the years of extremism before he mellowed considerably (he talks openly about this, so he wouldn’t mind me contributing the information) that leaks out every once in a while. Like I said, there can be a bit of fallout sometimes. But it is reparable. The hypercriticism is way more manageable now than it used to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Seriously! I feel the same way.
    I know. Those people will never get to experience the brilliance of those diamonds once the rough has been polished away by time and patience. Sucks to be them.
    Last edited by Mia.; 05-30-2012 at 01:03 PM. Reason: Spelling error.

  9. #1829
    Senior Member The Great One's Avatar
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    Thanks guys I appreciate the ESTJ analysis.

  10. #1830
    lords of summer EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mia. View Post
    Well my mother and sister in law are INFJ enneagram 1s, and they both are like that as well. Growing up we all had to manage my mom’s response in situations, because she wouldn’t take stress or any disruption/disarray in environment or plan well. The house had to be perfect at all times, for example. My sister-in-law is also very sensitive to stress and having things done just the right way. Her house is perfect at all times and she can be quite snarky, even though we get along well.
    This makes me think that my INFJ mom must be a 2w1; I thought she might be a 1w2, like me, at one point, but I've never gotten the ticking-time-bomb impression from her. In fact, I think I've only ever seen her blow up one time in my entire life; my 5w6 dad blows up more than her! She probably has a strong wing, though, because she acts like 1w2s when she messes something up (i.e. beating yourself over the head with guilt). The thing that had thrown me off was that she doesn't come across like the 2 stereotype of always-trying-to-help-everyone-and-be-self-sacrificing -- but the thing is, I think if she were a 1w2, she probably wouldn't be as much of a doormat as she is. (My mom is treated really poorly by most of the other faculty in the university department where she teaches, but she's so nonconfrontational that she ends up letting herself get walked all over, and then comes home at the end of the day to rant at my dad and I for hours about how it's all because the entire department is out to get her, and obviously none of it is because she's terrified of confrontation.)

    Do you have thoughts on it? Here is a thread I made a while back about her Enneagram type. I ask you because, since you have not one but TWO close INFJ 1w2 relatives, you probably know enough what they look like to tell if my mother is one of them.
    Well I think everybody would know I was full of crap if I went around saying “Oh goody gumdrops!!! This is my favorite part of being married to a TJ!” And I probably have a bit of “PTSD” or “shellshock” from all the years of extremism before he mellowed considerably (he talks openly about this, so he wouldn’t mind me contributing the information) that leaks out every once in a while. Like I said, there can be a bit of fallout sometimes. But it is reparable. The hypercriticism is way more manageable now than it used to be.
    If you don't mind my asking... was he like that when you first met him? And what did it take for him to change? Is he still in the process of working on it?
    Quote Originally Posted by The Great One View Post
    Thanks guys I appreciate the ESTJ analysis.
    No problem!
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

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