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Thread: Ask an ESTJ!

  1. #1781
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I pretty much agree, about demonstrating love. Just doing something for the ESTJ that shows that you're thinking of them, and that you've been paying attention to what's been going on in their life. Maybe surprising them with an unexpected gift (e.g. making them or buying them a favorite food?), or, I guess, doing the dishes? With the explanation of "I know you've had a lot on your plate lately..." (Pun unintended )

    Regarding intimacy, watching a movie etc is a great way to share wordless intimacy -- I agree. And that would be the best way to have a longer-lasting intimate experience with them. (Not the best word choice, but you know what I mean.) If you wanted to share intimacy with them verbally, I wouldn't expect that moment to last long! Or at least, I'd expect a longer period of silent intimacy to follow the short period of spoken intimacy. Example: if you ask the ESTJ what's been going on in their lives, and the ESTJ opens up quietly, briefly, and minimally, showing their Fi as much as they're comfortable with, and then you respond with equivalent opening up, and the two of you respond to one another -- the ESTJ is going to feel a lasting moment with you as a result of that, a moment of mental unity, I guess. And maybe it's because I've ended up slightly more introspective than the average ESTJ, because of how interested I am in personality psychology, that my preferred moments of silent intimacy are the ones preceded by verbally opening up. Or it could be because I'm generally resistant towards feeling mentally united with someone until they've told me explicitly how they feel... which could mean either a lack of trust in other people, or a lack of trust in my own ability to read people.

    I dunno! I'm thinking out loud. I hope some of that helped.
    Yeah, this is great, thank you!! Exactly the kind of thoughts I was looking for.

    (TBH, I'm still flip-flopping whether I think my guy is an ESTJ or ESFJ (e9w1)... when I asked this question I was pretty sure ESTJ, now I'm on the fence again... so confusing o_O; Either he's a very socially-conscious and quite tactful ESTJ, or he's a particularly straightforward, not very emotion-y, organized-lister ESFJ. In comparison with my ESFJ 2w1 mom he seems ESTJ, but in comparison with other Ts I know he seems F.)

    Quote Originally Posted by SD45T-2
    I think it would depend on love languages. Mine are physical touch and quality time. I'd feel weird about someone doing acts of service for me because I'm used to being the one performing acts of service for other people.
    Good point, thank you!

  2. #1782
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    Finally replying to everything...
    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    I thought this comment was really interesting. Does it actually make you feel uncomfortable if people want to do things for you? I totally understand the ESTJ about wanting to be helpful (or even kind of directive, ha) but if someone cares about you the chances are good that they want to do helpful things for you too, at least sometimes

    I have had this sort of impression in ESTJ interactions. That they're a lot happier doing things for you than letting you do things for them. But I have to admit I have also wondered if it's a bit of a power/control thing. Like you might be giving away some of your control if you allowed others to do things for you. I don't know...what would you say?
    I think SD45T-2 must be right about the love languages thing. Because when people do nice things for me, I don't question it, and it doesn't make me uncomfortable -- unless I feel on the spot, or I feel like I'm being undeservedly rewarded for something, or if I feel like "they shouldn't have gone to all that trouble", etc etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by SD45T-2 View Post
    It doesn't necessarily make me uncomfortable, just that it can feel odd.
    Odd, as in, unusual?
    That's possible. My guess is that it's more relevant for ESTJs who are type 8. I think it's more of a w2 thing for me.
    I have a question regarding this. Your 2 wing would mean that you're all about being helpful, right? So if/when you desire appreciation, or a show of love, what would you end up expecting out of people, if not something in the same style of providing that you show to them? If that makes sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Re: your intensity, intensity in general, and what you've written here generally...

    Obviously I don't know you IRL and I think online interaction is very partial at best, even if you think someone is really cool. I'd say though that you come across as forceful/perhaps somewhat intense, but in a pleasant and balanced way. You pretty much always seem to measure your words and say things which are meaningful and which you've put thought into, and you're also quite tactful and you show appreciation to others. Personally, I like that a lot.
    Thanks. Each thing you've described, is something I aim for, on this forum, and that I care a lot about projecting and embodying. It's good to know I'm succeeding in that.
    I can think of a couple of (almost certainly) ESTJs I've known in recent years and I'm pretty sure I've known more. I think you guys do tend to come across as forceful. I've discussed with you about people who say things they don't mean or seem to change their mind a lot and how that really gets to me (although I'm aware it can be miscommunication, not just flakiness). I do have a better understanding now of how extroverts generally (and perhaps certain extrovert types especially) tend to verbalize things when they're thinking them over, because sometimes I put too much weight on words and can get a bit pissy when people then decide to do something different. But I don't think a healthy ESTJ is too flighty in either words or actions and I also like that.

    But you definitely seem concerned that you're turning people off (you didn't specify, but I suppose that's either friendship-wise, or relationship-wise) by intensity and forcefulness, and that it even makes you "not normal". You're fairly young and I would suggest that especially at your age, this is going to be a turn-off for some people - but that those people aren't a great loss. People in their early twenties who are more on the serious side, get things done, sound forceful and determined, perhaps aren't the norm. I would actually think that you're just thinning out some potentially annoying people that way. As long as you're not being mean or bossy and I am 99.9% sure that's not the case.
    This is true. Strangely, I'm only bossy with my friends (i.e. when I'm giving them a talking-to, Because I Care), or with people who have made me angry and shut off my imitation Fe.

    I think you're right about thinning out annoying people. I still don't necessarily understand why people in their late teens and early twenties would be annoyed by it, unless it's due to being insecure -- but even then, aren't insecure people drawn to secure ones, and don't intense/confident people come across as the most secure? For the sake of full disclosure, I'm just curious at this point, and I'm not going to actively seek out the people who are annoyed by intensity; I deserve better than to have to mask one of my favorite aspects of myself, in order to make friends that I never really wanted in the first place.
    I totally hear you about being drawn to intense people and not understanding why others would be turned off by that. Honestly, those people strike me as superficial. As long as people are not mean, manipulative, or complete self-absorbed bores, I LOVE intensity. (And I also get told I'm intense, and sometimes it's a compliment, and sometimes...hm). Perhaps you get along well with INFJs because you have some things in common there. Another forum member commented elsewhere about how some people find her too serious and others find her not serious enough, and I related to that big-time. I know for a fact that I've turned some people off by being too serious and intense - and I don't think they're a great loss. I'm also pretty sure that some others have perceived me as too fun-loving and a bit frivolous. To which I reply that I like to enjoy life and I think enjoyment of life is one of the gifts we've been given, and I really can't be serious ALL the time. (I'm serious inside my head almost all the time and sometimes it makes me so tired!)
    Lol at the last part! I get the impression that Fe and Ni are really exhausting functions to use in tandem -- especially when Fe is first.

    You don't come across to me as frivolous at all. Frankly, if you did come across that way, I wouldn't want to be your friend, in all likelihood. Maybe you're right, that that's why I'm drawn to NFJs. If/when you guys are silly, I know it's just your sense of humor, and that you're actually very deep; I have a non-superficial silly streak too (obviously!), so I completely relate.
    I've been quite fortunate to find some people who are similar to me with the balance of intensity/seriousness/fun-loving silliness, and even if you haven't found many of them yet you will probably find a few more as you get a bit older. Otherwise I wouldn't worry. Just be yourself, and try to tweak the personality aspects that don't work so well - that's one of the things that can make typology so useful.
    Thanks for your post. I'll bet you're 100% correct.
    Quote Originally Posted by YWIR View Post
    Assuming you are the same irl as you are online, I'd have to say that your intensity is more to do with your physical tone and expression rather than what you actually say. I have noticed that you do have a "serious" quality to you, however, you never come off as intense or intimidating in your posts. So, I do definitely think it has more to do with HOW you express what you say. Ie; straight facial expression, dominating tone, etc.
    I generally come across as pretty straightforward irl; my videos are a good indicator. I don't think I come across as dominating? At my most aggressive/bossy, I probably come across more like Hermione Granger than anyone else.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mia. View Post
    My ESTJ is intense, and I find it a good thing. I am drawn to intense people, because to me it indicates they are actually engaging with reality/the world/life, etc. I'm intense as well, but it is a different energy to the intensity - very laid back externally, with the lots-under-the-surface and laden-with-meaning vibe. Whereas my ESTJ is intense on the outside.

    This would capture it well. Everything he says seems definitive, even if it isn’t. Pointed. He also tends to say whatever he’s thinking in a direct and raw manner no matter how controversial or sensitive in nature – which I LOVE and find comforting in its authenticity and lack of pretense (it’s actually the thing I love the most about him) – but others don’t often take it the right way.
    This makes a lot of sense, and it describes me very well too. If others don't take it very well from your husband, then they probably don't take it well from me either. But you know what? Too bad for them! They're missing out.
    <-- "winning" and "charismatic" Te grin

    Regarding your comment about ESTJ intensity being on the outside: I'm not sure what your husband's Enneagram type is, but another factor of my intensity (besides the obvious Te factor) may be the type 1 constant slow boil, that can overflow out of nowhere. I also credit my Enneagram for the fact that irl, I think, my energy is generally pretty contained and subdued, relatively speaking, compared to other extroverts. But that containment could make me seem even more intense, in theory? Like a pressure cooker.

    I dunno. I'm just thinking out loud!
    Quote Originally Posted by SD45T-2 View Post
    I generally don't get comments like that. I think I can come across as bland at times.
    Really? How so? You don't really come across that way to me. Of course, I don't really think of anyone as being "bland".
    Is this primarily with your peers?
    Yes. In fact, only with my peers. Adults over 25 have no problem with my intensity, generally.
    IMHO a majority of people of our generation are shallow, self-centered, and generally lacking substance and integrity. I would make sense to me that many of your peers would find you abnormal. As you can see, I'm a bit cynical.
    Yeah! But then again, all your friends are older, right?

    Do you think that's part of why you befriend mostly older people? i.e. the same issue SilkRoad and I talked about?

    Okay, gotta stop! TypeC's about to shut off.
    Will reply to your PM soon, @Red Herring! I swear!
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  3. #1783
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    Whoops, forgot @Cimarron --
    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    I think, just from what you post here, you seem very energetic and "forceful," though that word's a little loaded. Your posts always seem to have a lot of energy and activity in them. Which leads to the next question...
    Why does this turn some people off? Often, when faced with too much energy thrown my way, or too much activity all at once, I back away to prevent overload. As in, I'd rather process it bit by bit. I think But this in itself is a good thread-starter question.
    I might rather not. Too much spotlight on my personal issues. I have more privacy on this thread -- or at least, I'm surrounded by people I like, and who I trust more, so even if it isn't privacy, per se, I feel like I have a small element of control over who I'm opening up to.

    What you said makes sense. If I'm interpreting you correctly, it sounds, in your case, like a simple case of What Happens When Introverts Meet Extroverts. Does the same thing happen with you, when you're around non-ESTJ extroverts?

    Edit: I wouldn't have thought of "forceful" as a loaded word, but now you've piqued my curiosity... To what kind of "force" do you refer?
    Another edit: Nevermind, I think I get it. Pushiness, right? I was too busy focusing on the positive connotation to realize right away what the negative connotation would be.
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  4. #1784
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Odd, as in, unusual?
    Yeah, something like that.

    I have a question regarding this. Your 2 wing would mean that you're all about being helpful, right? So if/when you desire appreciation, or a show of love, what would you end up expecting out of people, if not something in the same style of providing that you show to them? If that makes sense.
    I'm not sure exactly. In a romantic relationship context (like skylights') I think physical touch and quality time would have the most significance to me. In other situations I think someone saying they noticed what I did and that I did a good job and they appreciated it. Money is nice too.

    I generally come across as pretty straightforward irl; my videos are a good indicator. I don't think I come across as dominating? At my most aggressive/bossy, I probably come across more like Hermione Granger than anyone else.
    You certainly don't come across like Lucy Van Pelt. You're not an 8, and you're not a sexual 1 like Lydia Adams (Regina King) on Southland.

    Regarding your comment about ESTJ intensity being on the outside: I'm not sure what your husband's Enneagram type is, but another factor of my intensity (besides the obvious Te factor) may be the type 1 constant slow boil, that can overflow out of nowhere.
    IIRC, her husband is an 8. My guess is that he's sort of like Senior Lead Officer John Cooper (Michael Cudlitz).

    I also credit my Enneagram for the fact that irl, I think, my energy is generally pretty contained and subdued, relatively speaking, compared to other extroverts. But that containment could make me seem even more intense, in theory? Like a pressure cooker.
    I'm the same way.

    Really? How so? You don't really come across that way to me. Of course, I don't really think of anyone as being "bland".
    Perhaps bland isn't quite the right word. Anyway, I think it's because I'm an ESTJ 1 going through a hard time in my life. ESTJs can get pretty withdrawn and subdued during hardships, plus there's all that type 1 emotional constraint. I guess you could say I come across as British with that whole "keeping a stiff upper lip" thing.

    Yes. In fact, only with my peers. Adults over 25 have no problem with my intensity, generally.
    Am I good or what?

    Yeah! But then again, all your friends are older, right?
    Not all of them. I have a few friends around my age.

    Do you think that's part of why you befriend mostly older people? i.e. the same issue SilkRoad and I talked about?
    Pretty much.
    1w2-6w5-3w2 so/sp

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  5. #1785
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD45T-2 View Post
    I'm not sure exactly. In a romantic relationship context (like skylights') I think physical touch and quality time would have the most significance to me. In other situations I think someone saying they noticed what I did and that I did a good job and they appreciated it. Money is nice too.
    This makes sense, considering what you said earlier about love languages. Would you say, then, that your 2-wing desire to be helpful -- that is, if you relate to that element of the 2 description -- is separate from how you express love/care towards friends/family/SOs?

    I don't remember my results when I took a love languages test, but I think I'm primarily an Acts of Service person, as well as Receiving Gifts (just because I put a ton of thought into the gifts I give, and get a little offended when people don't put the same amount of effort into mine). Words of Affirmation are nice too
    You certainly don't come across like Lucy Van Pelt. You're not an 8, and you're not a sexual 1 like Lydia Adams (Regina King) on Southland.

    IIRC, her husband is an 8. My guess is that he's sort of like Senior Lead Officer John Cooper (Michael Cudlitz).
    Is that a good show? Southland? I haven't watched it, but I think I've heard it's good. Is that the one with the guy from The O.C.?
    I'm the same way.

    Hey, have you seen "The Avengers" yet? Bruce Banner is a fantastic example of a Type 1's greatest fear. There's this quote, near the end of the movie, that I think actually perfectly describes Type 1, but I don't want to give it away if you haven't seen it yet.
    Perhaps bland isn't quite the right word. Anyway, I think it's because I'm an ESTJ 1 going through a hard time in my life. ESTJs can get pretty withdrawn and subdued during hardships, plus there's all that type 1 emotional constraint. I guess you could say I come across as British with that whole "keeping a stiff upper lip" thing.
    Oh, ok, that makes sense. Actually -- that explains why you've always struck me as being so introverted for an ESTJ, and with very strong Ne. (You sent me a rep, a while ago, that was such an Ne leap that I was like " What just happened there?" But that's great! Ne rules. If it's your INFP shadow, then it's working well for you -- or you've just had well-developed Ne for a long time.)

    Edit: Because of the Ne that I've seen in you, I would probably disagree with the "stiff upper lip" thing -- unless you come across as more uptight irl than here? I dunno, maybe I've just seen more of your silly side than the average person.
    Not all of them. I have a few friends around my age.
    Oh right! Of course. You've told me about them, I think. Why do I forget these things?
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  6. #1786
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    This makes sense, considering what you said earlier about love languages. Would you say, then, that your 2-wing desire to be helpful -- that is, if you relate to that element of the 2 description -- is separate from how you express love/care towards friends/family/SOs?
    I don't know. I mean, when I care about someone I try to be helpful and do practical (ESTJ type stuff) for them, and also try to figure out just the right gifts for birthdays, Christmas, and occasionally random times.

    Is that a good show? Southland? I haven't watched it, but I think I've heard it's good. Is that the one with the guy from The O.C.?
    That would be Benjamin McKenzie. I have not seen any of the TNT stuff, I just own the first two seasons on DVD. The first season was 7 episodes. A 13 episode season 2 was being made when NBC killed it, so they only completed the first 6 episodes. I love what I've seen so far.


    Hey, have you seen "The Avengers" yet? Bruce Banner is a fantastic example of a Type 1's greatest fear. There's this quote, near the end of the movie, that I think actually perfectly describes Type 1, but I don't want to give it away if you haven't seen it yet.
    I haven't seen it yet. I may get around to it.

    Oh, ok, that makes sense. Actually -- that explains why you've always struck me as being so introverted for an ESTJ, and with very strong Ne. (You sent me a rep, a while ago, that was such an Ne leap that I was like " What just happened there?" But that's great! Ne rules. If it's your INFP shadow, then it's working well for you -- or you've just had well-developed Ne for a long time.)
    I can't think of which one that would have been.

    Edit: Because of the Ne that I've seen in you, I would probably disagree with the "stiff upper lip" thing -- unless you come across as more uptight irl than here? I dunno, maybe I've just seen more of your silly side than the average person.
    I can be pretty goofy around friends. It's just that my life mostly revolves around my chronic health problems and I'm usually tired and/or in pain from one thing or another.
    1w2-6w5-3w2 so/sp

    "I took one those personality tests. It came back negative." - Dan Mintz

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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    This makes a lot of sense, and it describes me very well too. If others don't take it very well from your husband, then they probably don't take it well from me either. But you know what? Too bad for them! They're missing out.
    <-- "winning" and "charismatic" Te grin
    They are indeed missing out. For he is so cute it is ridonkulous. No doubt you are as well, hehe.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Regarding your comment about ESTJ intensity being on the outside: I'm not sure what your husband's Enneagram type is, but another factor of my intensity (besides the obvious Te factor) may be the type 1 constant slow boil, that can overflow out of nowhere. I also credit my Enneagram for the fact that irl, I think, my energy is generally pretty contained and subdued, relatively speaking, compared to other extroverts. But that containment could make me seem even more intense, in theory? Like a pressure cooker.
    Yes I really need to figure out what his enneagram is. I know his instinctual stacking is definitely sp/so. As far as his enneagram, 1 - 8 – 6 – and 2 are all possibilities. I just have to devote more time to reading on them to tease it apart.

  8. #1788
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mia. View Post
    They are indeed missing out. For he is so cute it is ridonkulous. No doubt you are as well, hehe.
    Have you watched her videos?

    Yes I really need to figure out what his enneagram is. I know his instinctual stacking is definitely sp/so. As far as his enneagram, 1 - 8 – 6 – and 2 are all possibilities. I just have to devote more time to reading on them to tease it apart.
    We're mostly 1s, 3s, and 8s, with some 6s here and there. Maybe this will give you something to go on: http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...style-you.html

    I'm a 1 but I tend to gravitate toward blues. That may just be a subconscious manifestation of my affinity for law enforcement. I also think it's unfortunate that brown suits are so rare these days.
    1w2-6w5-3w2 so/sp

    "I took one those personality tests. It came back negative." - Dan Mintz

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    Quote Originally Posted by SD45T-2 View Post
    Have you watched her videos?

    We're mostly 1s, 3s, and 8s, with some 6s here and there. Maybe this will give you something to go on: http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...style-you.html

    I'm a 1 but I tend to gravitate toward blues. That may just be a subconscious manifestation of my affinity for law enforcement. I also think it's unfortunate that brown suits are so rare these days.
    Ooh, brown suits are so classy!! Have you tried vintage clothing stores, or Etsy, or eBay?

    I wouldn't trust clothing decisions as describing type -- but I would trust the motivations behind them.
    Here's my old post from that thread:
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=1#post1780069
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  10. #1790
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Ooh, brown suits are so classy!! Have you tried vintage clothing stores, or Etsy, or eBay?
    I generally don't buy clothes. I guess I'm a fairly stereotypical guy because my mom has to remind me to get new shirts because my old ones are worn out. Anyway, I do like vintage/retro stuff, including hats.

    You may want to check this out: http://www.thefedoralounge.com/
    1w2-6w5-3w2 so/sp

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