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Thread: Ask an ESTJ!

  1. #1771
    lords of summer EJCC's Avatar
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    I have a question for The Usual Suspects of this thread -- and I am tempted to put this question up in the Relationships subforum, but I'm more comfortable asking it here (where it will probably be read by fewer people ), and it also might be type-related.

    People haven't really told me, in the past couple of years, how I come across to them -- and I've changed a lot in the past few years, so I really only trust the recent feedback to still be true of me. But the one comment that's been consistent over the past year or two has been this:

    "Everything you say is intense."

    I've asked people what they mean by that, and what they seem to mean is that I never say anything lightly? I mean, obviously I have a sense of humor, and I can have a silly streak. But apparently, so I've heard, everything I say is weighty, and infused with an intense amount of personal meaning.

    I've heard, vaguely, that I come across as "intense", or even "intimidating", and this must be the more specific reason why. But I don't know if it's type-related, or just me. Is it something you guys see in yourselves, or ESTJs you know?

    Related question: I also get the feeling that intensity is a turn-off for some people. I can't relate to that. I may even be drawn to intense people, if only because they seem substantial, for lack of a better word, and people who put on a facade of being less substantial than they really are can irritate me. Why would it be a turn-off? I ask this because even though I like that aspect of myself, it obviously is also something that sets me apart from the majority of people -- and is therefore the main factor that makes me "not normal", and the main thing that keeps people from befriending me. And I want to know whether people are justified in being turned off by that.
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

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  2. #1772
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    Wut?

    Honey, you are soooo getting a long PM!
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  3. #1773
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I have a question for The Usual Suspects of this thread -- and I am tempted to put this question up in the Relationships subforum, but I'm more comfortable asking it here (where it will probably be read by fewer people ), and it also might be type-related.

    People haven't really told me, in the past couple of years, how I come across to them -- and I've changed a lot in the past few years, so I really only trust the recent feedback to still be true of me. But the one comment that's been consistent over the past year or two has been this:

    "Everything you say is intense."

    I've asked people what they mean by that, and what they seem to mean is that I never say anything lightly? I mean, obviously I have a sense of humor, and I can have a silly streak. But apparently, so I've heard, everything I say is weighty, and infused with an intense amount of personal meaning.

    I've heard, vaguely, that I come across as "intense", or even "intimidating", and this must be the more specific reason why. But I don't know if it's type-related, or just me. Is it something you guys see in yourselves, or ESTJs you know?

    Related question: I also get the feeling that intensity is a turn-off for some people. I can't relate to that. I may even be drawn to intense people, if only because they seem substantial, for lack of a better word, and people who put on a facade of being less substantial than they really are can irritate me. Why would it be a turn-off? I ask this because even though I like that aspect of myself, it obviously is also something that sets me apart from the majority of people -- and is therefore the main factor that makes me "not normal", and the main thing that keeps people from befriending me. And I want to know whether people are justified in being turned off by that.
    Re: your intensity, intensity in general, and what you've written here generally...

    Obviously I don't know you IRL and I think online interaction is very partial at best, even if you think someone is really cool. I'd say though that you come across as forceful/perhaps somewhat intense, but in a pleasant and balanced way. You pretty much always seem to measure your words and say things which are meaningful and which you've put thought into, and you're also quite tactful and you show appreciation to others. Personally, I like that a lot.

    I can think of a couple of (almost certainly) ESTJs I've known in recent years and I'm pretty sure I've known more. I think you guys do tend to come across as forceful. I've discussed with you about people who say things they don't mean or seem to change their mind a lot and how that really gets to me (although I'm aware it can be miscommunication, not just flakiness). I do have a better understanding now of how extroverts generally (and perhaps certain extrovert types especially) tend to verbalize things when they're thinking them over, because sometimes I put too much weight on words and can get a bit pissy when people then decide to do something different. But I don't think a healthy ESTJ is too flighty in either words or actions and I also like that.

    But you definitely seem concerned that you're turning people off (you didn't specify, but I suppose that's either friendship-wise, or relationship-wise) by intensity and forcefulness, and that it even makes you "not normal". You're fairly young and I would suggest that especially at your age, this is going to be a turn-off for some people - but that those people aren't a great loss. People in their early twenties who are more on the serious side, get things done, sound forceful and determined, perhaps aren't the norm. I would actually think that you're just thinning out some potentially annoying people that way. As long as you're not being mean or bossy and I am 99.9% sure that's not the case.

    I totally hear you about being drawn to intense people and not understanding why others would be turned off by that. Honestly, those people strike me as superficial. As long as people are not mean, manipulative, or complete self-absorbed bores, I LOVE intensity. (And I also get told I'm intense, and sometimes it's a compliment, and sometimes...hm). Perhaps you get along well with INFJs because you have some things in common there. Another forum member commented elsewhere about how some people find her too serious and others find her not serious enough, and I related to that big-time. I know for a fact that I've turned some people off by being too serious and intense - and I don't think they're a great loss. I'm also pretty sure that some others have perceived me as too fun-loving and a bit frivolous. To which I reply that I like to enjoy life and I think enjoyment of life is one of the gifts we've been given, and I really can't be serious ALL the time. (I'm serious inside my head almost all the time and sometimes it makes me so tired!)

    I've been quite fortunate to find some people who are similar to me with the balance of intensity/seriousness/fun-loving silliness, and even if you haven't found many of them yet you will probably find a few more as you get a bit older. Otherwise I wouldn't worry. Just be yourself, and try to tweak the personality aspects that don't work so well - that's one of the things that can make typology so useful.
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  4. #1774
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I have a question for The Usual Suspects of this thread -- and I am tempted to put this question up in the Relationships subforum, but I'm more comfortable asking it here (where it will probably be read by fewer people ), and it also might be type-related.

    People haven't really told me, in the past couple of years, how I come across to them -- and I've changed a lot in the past few years, so I really only trust the recent feedback to still be true of me. But the one comment that's been consistent over the past year or two has been this:

    "Everything you say is intense."

    I've asked people what they mean by that, and what they seem to mean is that I never say anything lightly? I mean, obviously I have a sense of humor, and I can have a silly streak. But apparently, so I've heard, everything I say is weighty, and infused with an intense amount of personal meaning.

    I've heard, vaguely, that I come across as "intense", or even "intimidating", and this must be the more specific reason why. But I don't know if it's type-related, or just me. Is it something you guys see in yourselves, or ESTJs you know?

    Related question: I also get the feeling that intensity is a turn-off for some people. I can't relate to that. I may even be drawn to intense people, if only because they seem substantial, for lack of a better word, and people who put on a facade of being less substantial than they really are can irritate me. Why would it be a turn-off? I ask this because even though I like that aspect of myself, it obviously is also something that sets me apart from the majority of people -- and is therefore the main factor that makes me "not normal", and the main thing that keeps people from befriending me. And I want to know whether people are justified in being turned off by that.
    Assuming you are the same irl as you are online, I'd have to say that your intensity is more to do with your physical tone and expression rather than what you actually say. I have noticed that you do have a "serious" quality to you, however, you never come off as intense or intimidating in your posts. So, I do definitely think it has more to do with HOW you express what you say. Ie; straight facial expression, dominating tone, etc.

  5. #1775
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    My ESTJ is intense, and I find it a good thing. I am drawn to intense people, because to me it indicates they are actually engaging with reality/the world/life, etc. I'm intense as well, but it is a different energy to the intensity - very laid back externally, with the lots-under-the-surface and laden-with-meaning vibe. Whereas my ESTJ is intense on the outside.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    I can think of a couple of (almost certainly) ESTJs I've known in recent years and I'm pretty sure I've known more. I think you guys do tend to come across as forceful.
    This would capture it well. Everything he says seems definitive, even if it isn’t. Pointed. He also tends to say whatever he’s thinking in a direct and raw manner no matter how controversial or sensitive in nature – which I LOVE and find comforting in its authenticity and lack of pretense (it’s actually the thing I love the most about him) – but others don’t often take it the right way.

  6. #1776
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    What are the best ways of demonstrating love to and sharing intimacy with an ESTJ? Of course that will vary a bit from individual to individual, but maybe there are some shared tendencies...? As an NF obviously I go to fuzzy-conceptual methods, like the ideas represented in certain songs or poems or expressed in artwork, but I'm trying to figure out how best to "translate" that without losing authenticity...
    I think it would depend on love languages. Mine are physical touch and quality time. I'd feel weird about someone doing acts of service for me because I'm used to being the one performing acts of service for other people.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I have a question for The Usual Suspects of this thread -- and I am tempted to put this question up in the Relationships subforum, but I'm more comfortable asking it here (where it will probably be read by fewer people ), and it also might be type-related.

    People haven't really told me, in the past couple of years, how I come across to them -- and I've changed a lot in the past few years, so I really only trust the recent feedback to still be true of me. But the one comment that's been consistent over the past year or two has been this:

    "Everything you say is intense."

    I've asked people what they mean by that, and what they seem to mean is that I never say anything lightly? I mean, obviously I have a sense of humor, and I can have a silly streak. But apparently, so I've heard, everything I say is weighty, and infused with an intense amount of personal meaning.

    I've heard, vaguely, that I come across as "intense", or even "intimidating", and this must be the more specific reason why. But I don't know if it's type-related, or just me. Is it something you guys see in yourselves, or ESTJs you know?
    I generally don't get comments like that. I think I can come across as bland at times.

    Related question: I also get the feeling that intensity is a turn-off for some people. I can't relate to that. I may even be drawn to intense people, if only because they seem substantial, for lack of a better word, and people who put on a facade of being less substantial than they really are can irritate me. Why would it be a turn-off? I ask this because even though I like that aspect of myself, it obviously is also something that sets me apart from the majority of people -- and is therefore the main factor that makes me "not normal", and the main thing that keeps people from befriending me. And I want to know whether people are justified in being turned off by that.
    Is this primarily with your peers?

    IMHO a majority of people of our generation are shallow, self-centered, and generally lacking substance and integrity. I would make sense to me that many of your peers would find you abnormal. As you can see, I'm a bit cynical.
    1w2-6w5-3w2 so/sp

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  7. #1777
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD45T-2 View Post
    I think it would depend on love languages. Mine are physical touch and quality time. I'd feel weird about someone doing acts of service for me because I'm used to being the one performing acts of service for other people.
    I thought this comment was really interesting. Does it actually make you feel uncomfortable if people want to do things for you? I totally understand the ESTJ about wanting to be helpful (or even kind of directive, ha) but if someone cares about you the chances are good that they want to do helpful things for you too, at least sometimes

    I have had this sort of impression in ESTJ interactions. That they're a lot happier doing things for you than letting you do things for them. But I have to admit I have also wondered if it's a bit of a power/control thing. Like you might be giving away some of your control if you allowed others to do things for you. I don't know...what would you say?
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  8. #1778
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    I thought this comment was really interesting. Does it actually make you feel uncomfortable if people want to do things for you? I totally understand the ESTJ about wanting to be helpful (or even kind of directive, ha) but if someone cares about you the chances are good that they want to do helpful things for you too, at least sometimes
    It doesn't necessarily make me uncomfortable, just that it can feel odd.

    I have had this sort of impression in ESTJ interactions. That they're a lot happier doing things for you than letting you do things for them. But I have to admit I have also wondered if it's a bit of a power/control thing. Like you might be giving away some of your control if you allowed others to do things for you. I don't know...what would you say?
    That's possible. My guess is that it's more relevant for ESTJs who are type 8. I think it's more of a w2 thing for me.
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  9. #1779
    lords of summer EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    Wut?

    Honey, you are soooo getting a long PM!
    Thanks, Red Herring. I will respond to your long PM -- and to everyone's replies on the thread -- soon. They've given me a lot of food for thought, so I may need to mull it over first.
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  10. #1780
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    "Everything you say is intense."
    I think, just from what you post here, you seem very energetic and "forceful," though that word's a little loaded. Your posts always seem to have a lot of energy and activity in them. Which leads to the next question...
    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC
    Related question: I also get the feeling that intensity is a turn-off for some people. I can't relate to that. I may even be drawn to intense people, if only because they seem substantial, for lack of a better word, and people who put on a facade of being less substantial than they really are can irritate me. Why would it be a turn-off? I ask this because even though I like that aspect of myself, it obviously is also something that sets me apart from the majority of people -- and is therefore the main factor that makes me "not normal", and the main thing that keeps people from befriending me. And I want to know whether people are justified in being turned off by that.
    Why does this turn some people off? Often, when faced with too much energy thrown my way, or too much activity all at once, I back away to prevent overload. As in, I'd rather process it bit by bit. I think But this in itself is a good thread-starter question.
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