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Thread: Ask an ESTJ!

  1. #1701
    Row row row your boat SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Do you like orange marmalade? I'm fond of Dundee, but I haven't been able to find it in stores lately. All the other brands I've tried so far have been too sweet for my taste.

    And now for something completely different:



    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    No kids yet, so I'm answering in theory --
    I think I would be a fun but honest parent. I wouldn't lie to my kids. I would treat them with respect, and I would never, ever answer their questions with "because I said so" or "because I'm your mother". I would take the time to explain things to them, to answer their questions, to be there when they need them.

    I also get the feeling that I would be more of a disciplinarian, than whoever ends up being the father.
    Hopefully the father will be supportive and not undermine your efforts. You seem like you'd be a pretty cool mom.

    If I ever have kids I'm not going to give them common names. But I'd give them real names, not crap like ESPN, Infiniti, etc. I hate it when people do that to their kids.

    Anyway, if I had a daughter I'd want to name her something interesting like Dervorgilla, after queen Dervorgilla, who was the wife of king Tighernan O'Rourke back in the 1100s. I could call her Dervo for short. Or maybe that would be a little too special. And I'm not even Irish. Hmm...I guess I'd have to talk it over with my wife.
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    Not sure this has been asked before, but here goes:

    What type(s) is an ESTJ most likely to clash with? I tend to clash with ESTJs more than any other type on almost every level, and because of this I seem to have developed a sort of disturbed paranoia of them, especially when they're in a higher position than me. Or maybe it's just those ESTJs who have a strong J preference and haven't really honed in on developing their Ne/Fi usage. Although then again, I could clash with Fi as well. Once I was working with a former ESTJ teacher, who was projecting Fi-ish values such as integrity and respect onto me. The problem is that I got extremely disturbed by such a projection, as my Ti/Fe sees integrity very differently. Then of course there was the cold, hard "suck it up and do it" approach that Te delivers... that I just cannot take (I need a more motivational Fe approach instead).
    Thinkist: not optimist nor pessimist. I am primarily competent in the enneagram.
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  3. #1703
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Hey EJCC! I have more questions, this time in regards to ESTJs and friendships - in part related to my sister who is having a hard time with her's. I like to know these answers from your perspective and to see how much you relate to my sister's situation.

    1) I know extroverts like to have a large group of friends, but is it important to you to have a very strong bond with one particular friend? My sister seems to have these close friendships, where she prioritises that friend entirely - only for them to fail to return the favour.

    2) Do you tend to form good friendships with a particular type? My sister seems to be very much drawn to ESFPs, and I also wondered what is it about this type that would appeal so much to ESTJs?

    3) Are you fiercely loyal to your friends? If so, do you regularly get burned or under-appreciated in friendships in spite of your loyalty and dedication?

    4) Does the way friends and SOs treat you ever affect the way you view yourself? (ie. If it appeared you were consistently treated badly would you blame them or yourself?) It's just that my sister does this a lot when people she is very close to treat her badly. I find it strange (and upsetting) because in ever other situation she doesn't internalise this - she just assumes they're an idiot or a jerk and it has nothing to do with her. Do you think it is different with people you make yourself vulnerable with?

    5) Slightly unrelated but: how do you like to be comforted? What helps you to get through something upsetting and what do you find unproductive? Do you prefer sympathetic listening, having the person analyse the situation (perhaps from another perspective), being offered advice, being reminded of your positive attributes, trying to (sensitively) cheer you up, distracting you from the negative things etc? - and if it's all or many of these, which are the most significant.

    PS. I do so like your present avatar!
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

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    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  4. #1704
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thinkist View Post
    Not sure this has been asked before, but here goes:

    What type(s) is an ESTJ most likely to clash with? I tend to clash with ESTJs more than any other type on almost every level, and because of this I seem to have developed a sort of disturbed paranoia of them, especially when they're in a higher position than me. Or maybe it's just those ESTJs who have a strong J preference and haven't really honed in on developing their Ne/Fi usage. Although then again, I could clash with Fi as well. Once I was working with a former ESTJ teacher, who was projecting Fi-ish values such as integrity and respect onto me. The problem is that I got extremely disturbed by such a projection, as my Ti/Fe sees integrity very differently. Then of course there was the cold, hard "suck it up and do it" approach that Te delivers... that I just cannot take (I need a more motivational Fe approach instead).
    I can't think of any one type that causes trouble for me, but I haven't spent a great deal of time working closely with people of every single type.

    EJCC seems to be busy, so I'll have a go at it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Hey EJCC! I have more questions, this time in regards to ESTJs and friendships - in part related to my sister who is having a hard time with her's. I like to know these answers from your perspective and to see how much you relate to my sister's situation.

    1) I know extroverts like to have a large group of friends, but is it important to you to have a very strong bond with one particular friend? My sister seems to have these close friendships, where she prioritises that friend entirely - only for them to fail to return the favour.
    Not exactly. I'm pretty selective about friends, and I usually don't rush into things.

    2) Do you tend to form good friendships with a particular type? My sister seems to be very much drawn to ESFPs, and I also wondered what is it about this type that would appeal so much to ESTJs?
    My best friend is an ISTJ 5w6. He's old enough to be my dad, but aside from that we're pretty similar. Most of the rest of my friends are SPs.

    As far as ESFPs, I'm guessing it's because they're entertaining.

    3) Are you fiercely loyal to your friends? If so, do you regularly get burned or under-appreciated in friendships in spite of your loyalty and dedication?
    I'm pretty loyal. There are times when people when people I know don't respect me or appreciate something I did, but those usually aren't people I'm particularly close to.

    4) Does the way friends and SOs treat you ever affect the way you view yourself? (ie. If it appeared you were consistently treated badly would you blame them or yourself?)
    Probably both. I'd be resentful towards them and agonize over how I could have handled the situation better. Typical type 1 stuff.

    It's just that my sister does this a lot when people she is very close to treat her badly. I find it strange (and upsetting) because in ever other situation she doesn't internalise this - she just assumes they're an idiot or a jerk and it has nothing to do with her. Do you think it is different with people you make yourself vulnerable with?
    Yes. It's easy for me to dismiss some Joe Sixpack as an idiot. If it's someone I'm close to (or even just related to), that tends to complicate things.

    5) Slightly unrelated but: how do you like to be comforted? What helps you to get through something upsetting and what do you find unproductive?
    Give me some money.

    Do you prefer sympathetic listening, having the person analyse the situation (perhaps from another perspective), being offered advice, being reminded of your positive attributes, trying to (sensitively) cheer you up, distracting you from the negative things etc? - and if it's all or many of these, which are the most significant.
    Probably listening and maybe offering their perspective.
    1w2-6w5-3w2 so/sp

    "I took one those personality tests. It came back negative." - Dan Mintz

  5. #1705
    lords of summer EJCC's Avatar
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    Finally back to the thread! Sorry about this, guys -- I limited my TypeC time for Lent, which is why I haven't been around here for a while. (I am breaking my Lenten resolution at this very moment!)
    Quote Originally Posted by SD45T-2 View Post
    Do you like orange marmalade? I'm fond of Dundee, but I haven't been able to find it in stores lately. All the other brands I've tried so far have been too sweet for my taste.
    Haven't tried it.
    If I ever have kids I'm not going to give them common names. But I'd give them real names, not crap like ESPN, Infiniti, etc. I hate it when people do that to their kids.

    Anyway, if I had a daughter I'd want to name her something interesting like Dervorgilla, after queen Dervorgilla, who was the wife of king Tighernan O'Rourke back in the 1100s. I could call her Dervo for short. Or maybe that would be a little too special. And I'm not even Irish. Hmm...I guess I'd have to talk it over with my wife.
    Lol at the progression in that last paragraph!

    As much as I respect/admire the desire to give your kid a really interesting and meaningful name, I'd warn you about how easy it will be for people to pronounce that name. Speaking as someone with a difficult-to-pronounce last name, I can tell you that it's pretty frustrating, and I can only imagine how much more frustrating it would be if my first name were hard to pronounce too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thinkist View Post
    Not sure this has been asked before, but here goes:

    What type(s) is an ESTJ most likely to clash with? I tend to clash with ESTJs more than any other type on almost every level, and because of this I seem to have developed a sort of disturbed paranoia of them, especially when they're in a higher position than me. Or maybe it's just those ESTJs who have a strong J preference and haven't really honed in on developing their Ne/Fi usage. Although then again, I could clash with Fi as well. Once I was working with a former ESTJ teacher, who was projecting Fi-ish values such as integrity and respect onto me. The problem is that I got extremely disturbed by such a projection, as my Ti/Fe sees integrity very differently. Then of course there was the cold, hard "suck it up and do it" approach that Te delivers... that I just cannot take (I need a more motivational Fe approach instead).
    From my experience with MBTI, there's so much variety in every type that it's pretty much impossible to make rules about who gets along better/worse with whom. For example, I've read that ESTJs and INFJs are very incompatible, but for various reasons (including the fact that my mom is an INFJ), I tend to get along better with ENFJs and INFJs than almost any other types, in terms of communicating with them and understanding them. So I'm inclined to say that your lack of compatibility with the ESTJs you know has less to do with ESTJs in general, and more to do with the ones you've met. (Although I will say that the "suck it up and do it" philosophy is very, very common with ESTJs -- but I'd also say that many ESTJs, including myself, both give to others and require from others a dose of calm Fe-style motivation every once and a while.)

    I'm curious about the part I bolded, though. Could you give a few more details?

    Also: how do you feel about other SJs? The things you mentioned about ESTJs seem very common about other SJs too -- and to a degree, INFJs, i.e. in their conceptions of integrity and respect (which I find to be similar to mine, which is why I tend to get along so well with INFJs).
    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Hey EJCC! I have more questions, this time in regards to ESTJs and friendships - in part related to my sister who is having a hard time with her's. I like to know these answers from your perspective and to see how much you relate to my sister's situation.

    1) I know extroverts like to have a large group of friends, but is it important to you to have a very strong bond with one particular friend? My sister seems to have these close friendships, where she prioritises that friend entirely - only for them to fail to return the favour.
    I don't have one best friend, and I tend to not prioritize any one friend over all others at any given moment; I have maybe five or six very close friends, who I prioritize equally above all my other friends. And part of the reason why they made it into that very small circle of friends is that they prioritize me the same way; otherwise, I would have lowered them on the friend scale, because friendships are supposed to be reciprocal.
    2) Do you tend to form good friendships with a particular type? My sister seems to be very much drawn to ESFPs, and I also wondered what is it about this type that would appeal so much to ESTJs?
    I haven't had a lot of good luck with ESFPs -- mostly because I've been so put off by the initial vibe they give off to me when I first meet them. It's a personal problem that I have, that isn't type-specific, as far as I know -- i.e. that when I meet someone and they are very obviously "performing" for me, it puts me off, because I want to meet them, and not a showy image of themselves that they give to other people. I also feel like that dynamic -- of talking to someone who is trying to perform for you when you aren't doing the same thing to them -- is unequal and therefore awkward for me. So needless to say, I am wary of "performers".

    This isn't to say that all ESFPs are like this, but instead, I mean that I haven't really met the right ESFPs for me.

    In terms of types I get along with well... The types of my very closest friends (i.e. the ones in my close circle) are ENFP, ENFJ, INFJ, INTJ and ENFJ. So... lots of NFJs, because, like I said before, I feel like I just "get" them; I attribute some of that to the fact that we share many of our values -- civility, respect, loyalty -- and that we communicate very well as long as we care about each other enough that the NFJ isn't afraid to be honest with me. (I like ENFJs, especially, because they are as good at communicating their ideas as I am, and as ready to share them as I am, so we can have very good conversations at the drop of a hat; whereas, for example, the INTJ and some INFJs that I'm friends with have a lot of trouble communicating their ideas with me, and their lack of ability/need to share those ideas can bring conversation to a halt.)
    3) Are you fiercely loyal to your friends? If so, do you regularly get burned or under-appreciated in friendships in spite of your loyalty and dedication?
    I am VERY VERY loyal to my closest friends -- but like I said before, they only become my close friends when I know, deep down, that they care enough about me to do the same thing in my situation. In fact, if one party is more likely to get burned in one of those situations, it's probably the other party, due to my not being there for them -- because I am not extremely easily attached to people (because I don't want to be burned, in the way that you described).
    4) Does the way friends and SOs treat you ever affect the way you view yourself? (ie. If it appeared you were consistently treated badly would you blame them or yourself?) It's just that my sister does this a lot when people she is very close to treat her badly. I find it strange (and upsetting) because in ever other situation she doesn't internalise this - she just assumes they're an idiot or a jerk and it has nothing to do with her. Do you think it is different with people you make yourself vulnerable with?
    There are some areas where even if a total stranger treats me a particular way, it will affect my self-image. (e.g. if someone I meet for the first time sees me as untrustworthy or disrespectful, or sees me some other way that is contrary to the way that I want to be seen.) But it definitely hurts the most with close friends. Although I should specify: if they treat me poorly and I feel like it's justified, I will blame myself. But if they treat me poorly and I feel like I did nothing wrong, then I don't blame myself. And this is the case with literally everyone I encounter, whether I'm close with them or not at all -- although because I give myself more responsibilities with close friends, I'll feel worse if they treat me poorly for something I did, because my standards were higher for myself in that situation.

    (This all might be specific to type 1?)
    5) Slightly unrelated but: how do you like to be comforted? What helps you to get through something upsetting and what do you find unproductive? Do you prefer sympathetic listening, having the person analyse the situation (perhaps from another perspective), being offered advice, being reminded of your positive attributes, trying to (sensitively) cheer you up, distracting you from the negative things etc? - and if it's all or many of these, which are the most significant.
    It depends on the situation. If you asked me "How was your day?" and I had a really bad day, and I told you what happened, I'm probably going to prefer sympathetic listening. But if I come to you of my own accord, unprompted, with a bad story, then I'm probably going to want solutions in addition to sympathy -- because I don't like venting to people, because I don't like putting them in that helpless situation. (Also, if I don't want solutions and just want comforting, you'll probably know because I'll make it clear exactly what I did to try and get a solution, or what I'm going to do later to fix the problem. Whereas, I'll say "I don't know what to do" or other things that suggest that I don't feel in control of my situation, a solution would definitely be in order, sometimes with a morale booster; e.g. "You're very good at these things; you've made it through similar things in the past and you can make it through them again". Or just, like you said, another viewpoint: "Have you tried this? That would solve all your issues quicker and less painfully.")

    PS. I do so like your present avatar!
    Thanks!
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  6. #1706
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Finally back to the thread! Sorry about this, guys -- I limited my TypeC time for Lent, which is why I haven't been around here for a while. (I am breaking my Lenten resolution at this very moment!)
    Oops. I feel bad now for provoking you to break it. You've done very well so far though.

    Don't answer me until after Lent.

    But it definitely hurts the most with close friends. Although I should specify: if they treat me poorly and I feel like it's justified, I will blame myself. But if they treat me poorly and I feel like I did nothing wrong, then I don't blame myself. And this is the case with literally everyone I encounter, whether I'm close with them or not at all -- although because I give myself more responsibilities with close friends, I'll feel worse if they treat me poorly for something I did, because my standards were higher for myself in that situation.
    (This all might be specific to type 1?)
    But what about when you're confused whether you're in the right or wrong? - times when things aren't so clear to you and you begin to doubt yourself.

    Perhaps someone treats you in a certain way and it seems like maybe it fits in a pattern (which may be imagined or real) of how some other people have treated you in the past; and this then makes you wonder if you are, in fact, the cause of the problem.

    Do you also think that you might sometimes blame yourself unfairly because your standards for your own behaviour are too high? Do you ever form expectations for yourself that relate to things that are actually beyond you control? Or would you have difficulty acknowledging that even if you did?

    It depends on the situation. If you asked me "How was your day?" and I had a really bad day, and I told you what happened, I'm probably going to prefer sympathetic listening. But if I come to you of my own accord, unprompted, with a bad story, then I'm probably going to want solutions in addition to sympathy -- because I don't like venting to people, because I don't like putting them in that helpless situation. (Also, if I don't want solutions and just want comforting, you'll probably know because I'll make it clear exactly what I did to try and get a solution, or what I'm going to do later to fix the problem. Whereas, I'll say "I don't know what to do" or something similar if I want a solution.)
    Interesting. So would you say, even if it sounds like you are venting about a situation (say, about someone that irritates you) you are really just trying to invite others to help figure out what is going on and why?
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

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    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  7. #1707
    Row row row your boat SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Finally back to the thread! Sorry about this, guys -- I limited my TypeC time for Lent, which is why I haven't been around here for a while. (I am breaking my Lenten resolution at this very moment!)


    Haven't tried it.
    But I thought you were a food enthusiast!

    Lol at the progression in that last paragraph!

    As much as I respect/admire the desire to give your kid a really interesting and meaningful name, I'd warn you about how easy it will be for people to pronounce that name. Speaking as someone with a difficult-to-pronounce last name, I can tell you that it's pretty frustrating, and I can only imagine how much more frustrating it would be if my first name were hard to pronounce too.
    That's true. My last name is unusual and frequently mispronounced/misspelled. It's not one of those Polish names with no vowels, it's actually English. My dad's side of the family originated in Oxfordshire.
    1w2-6w5-3w2 so/sp

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  8. #1708
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    Wow! Let me just say: "Wow! Who would've thought ESTJs are so popular."

    Well, here is mine: The ESTJs I know are very reluctant to try new things and I think they feel kind of lost and frustrated with such scenarios. But this is boring to me and boring=death.

    What are the best ways to manipulate an ESTJ into trying new things?

    I would specifically like to clarify: "new" things includes illegal/immoral behavior. I believe this to be a relevant piece of information you need when answering the question.



    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post


    Let me know if you have more questions!
    Amazing! You sound so Fe (in a very "straight-to-point" / "get-things-done" kind of way).

    Did you learn this from your mom? Also, is "being-Fe" an obligation that needs to be fulfilled?

  9. #1709

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    Hello Miss EJCC!

    I recently found out my (fantastically awesome!) estj boss was diagnosed with Lupus. Our worksplace is really awesome and supportive to her, but are there things that I could do to be supportive for her as well on an individual level?

  10. #1710
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    ESTJ at least to me seems like a very powerful personality, the big boss nobody wants to mess with!

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