User Tag List

Page 17 of 259 FirstFirst ... 715161718192767117 ... LastLast
Results 161 to 170 of 2589

Thread: Ask an ESTJ!

  1. #161
    Protocol Droid Array Athenian200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    8,828

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I'm not sure, Athenian, if my answers to your questions will apply to all ESTJs (they're a little broad), but they're excellent questions, and I'll try to answer them as best I can.
    Of course. That's all I could have expected.

    I think it really depends. I mean, everyone's a little bit of both, but I suppose whether an ESTJ would lean in one direction or another would depend on whether their family/friends/culture was sophisticated or not. I'd say that in this case, nurture is more influential than nature. (You know how we can be with peer pressure...)
    That's what I would have thought, actually. I like to think that Js would tend to be more sophisticated than Ps in general, though.


    Again, it depends. If their different-ness makes them difficult to deal with (e.g. if they have bad social skills, or they won't stop talking no matter what), then I might not want to be around them. I might be indifferent to them, or respond them with one word answers, or something along those lines. But if they're different in a way that I find to be harmless (e.g. wearing an outrageous costume to a social gathering when costumes weren't expected), then I may even find that different-ness to be charming, and it might draw me to them. You might get an immediate reaction like "Whoa... that's weird", but I get over that fast once it's proven to me that you're actually cool, despite/because of your weirdness.
    Wow. It sounds like you're fairly open minded. I wasn't really thinking about being different in terms of having bad social skills or being rude, though. I kind of take those things for granted. My idea of "different" would be something more like... a guy wearing a purple shirt or having long hair, or a girl wearing pants instead of a dress. Or, I suppose, unusual clothing or hair styles in general? I'd never even imagined the possibility of someone wearing a costume when they weren't supposed to (at least not on purpose). Stuff like that really happens? Interesting.
    But that answer really only applies in social situations.
    In work situations, if the person's different-ness interferes with their ability to work and to get things done efficiently (or if I find it offensive), then I'm not okay with it. Otherwise, you know, diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks, and so on and so on.
    Well, the first one is obvious, again... one goes to work in order to work, and I can't imagine anyone being okay with someone doing something that interfered with their ability to work and get the job done.

    The bolded, though... is interesting. What sort of things, aside from their work efficiency and basic social skills, could be offensive to you?
    So I guess, if my answers apply to other ESTJs, we can be quite intolerant at first, but we're fairly easily convinced that different people are cool. (It's my personal belief that NFs can be WAY more closed-minded than ESTJs are, because their beliefs are so much more... personal, for lack of a better word.)
    Hmm... INFPs can be, anyway. Kidding. Yes, I suppose anyone can be closed-minded.

  2. #162
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    173 so/sx
    Posts
    17,428

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by d@v3 View Post
    So you don't want to get married like [most] other girls? And you don't like to talk to other girls?
    WHOA there. That was kind of a big leap, dude.
    I want to get married. I enjoy talking to girls. (Not all girls do the annoying things I described... and I'm okay at handling complaining/gossip/OMG BOYS OMG (which, again, not all girls do) in small doses.
    I just don't want to be like this woman:
    "When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world -- 'No, YOU move.'"
    - Captain America

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  3. #163
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    173 so/sx
    Posts
    17,428

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Wow. It sounds like you're fairly open minded. I wasn't really thinking about being different in terms of having bad social skills or being rude, though. I kind of take those things for granted. My idea of "different" would be something more like... a guy wearing a purple shirt or having long hair, or a girl wearing pants instead of a dress.
    Oh, okay. This depends on the ESTJ, I think. Honestly, it depends on what the ESTJ considers to be "traditional". The idea of what's "traditional" is very subjective. I grew up in a liberal part of the country, with open-minded parents, and I went to schools with open outlooks. I've been to drag shows before, I have friends who dress up in leopard-print onesies because that's their style (she's the one who inspired the costume comment), and I went to a Nine Inch Nails concert... although I brought earplugs But then again, most of my friends do things like this too, so for me, anyways, it IS "traditional". The examples you gave of things that are "different" are things that I find to be completely normal. It's generational, I think... a middle-aged ESTJ might be much more closed-minded, because today's culture isn't the one they were raised with, and a (American) white male ESTJ might be more closed-minded, because, in all honesty, white males have traditionally been on the opposite side of change for much of history, while women and minorities haven't been. (But that's a HUGE generalization, so pardon me... you see my point, I hope.)

    The bolded, though... is interesting. What sort of things, aside from their work efficiency and basic social skills, could be offensive to you?
    Well, since I was talking about attire, here's one example (and many may find this closed-minded): I would be offended by a co-worker wearing a shirt into work with a Confederate flag print, because I always associate that with racism and slavery and such things. A more universal example: If I thought a co-worker was acting in a sexist way towards another co-worker of the opposite gender, I would be offended, even if it was simply how the person was raised. That sort of "different", for me, is difficult to excuse.
    "When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world -- 'No, YOU move.'"
    - Captain America

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  4. #164
    Protocol Droid Array Athenian200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    8,828

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Oh, okay. This depends on the ESTJ, I think. Honestly, it depends on what the ESTJ considers to be "traditional". The idea of what's "traditional" is very subjective. I grew up in a liberal part of the country, with open-minded parents, and I went to schools with open outlooks. I've been to drag shows before, I have friends who dress up in leopard-print onesies because that's their style (she's the one who inspired the costume comment), and I went to a Nine Inch Nails concert... although I brought earplugs But then again, most of my friends do things like this too, so for me, anyways, it IS "traditional". The examples you gave of things that are "different" are things that I find to be completely normal. It's generational, I think... a middle-aged ESTJ might be much more closed-minded, because today's culture isn't the one they were raised with, and a (American) white male ESTJ might be more closed-minded, because, in all honesty, white males have traditionally been on the opposite side of change for much of history, while women and minorities haven't been. (But that's a HUGE generalization, so pardon me... you see my point, I hope.)
    Ah. Well, it might have something to do with my growing up in the South, too. I guess it just never occurred to me that tradition could be anything other than what the previous generations valued, that we've started to question now.

    Well, since I was talking about attire, here's one example (and many may find this closed-minded): I would be offended by a co-worker wearing a shirt into work with a Confederate flag print, because I always associate that with racism and slavery and such things. A more universal example: If I thought a co-worker was acting in a sexist way towards another co-worker of the opposite gender, I would be offended, even if it was simply how the person was raised. That sort of "different", for me, is difficult to excuse.
    Oh. Well, I'd be offended by that, too. That kind of behavior is inexcusable to me. It's just that I'd associate what you described (racism/slavery and sexism) with being traditional rather than being different. Which is why I tend to be anxious when someone implies that they value tradition.

  5. #165
    reborn Array PeaceBaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    937 so/sx
    Posts
    6,157

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Hmm... INFPs can be, anyway. Kidding. Yes, I suppose anyone can be closed-minded.
    INFP's, close-minded? An oxymoron if I've ever heard one.

  6. #166
    Freshman Member Array simulatedworld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w6 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILE
    Posts
    5,554

    Default

    ^ They don't seem as open-minded as INFJs, a lot of the time.

    They'll act very casual and accepting of just about everyone else on the outside, but when it comes to their inner ethics many of them are much less forgiving of what they see as moral transgressions in others...there's almost an air of self-righteousness with some of them; they just don't really show it most of the time unless backed into an ethical corner where they have no choice but to respond negatively for fear of violating their values.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  7. #167
    reborn Array PeaceBaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    937 so/sx
    Posts
    6,157

    Default

    A question: is anyone completely forgiving of "moral" transgressions, really? You would be comfortable being cheated on, having something stolen from you, being lied to?

    Just about everyone I know would find these types of behaviors unacceptable. Perhaps it is best not to generalize to such an extent.

  8. #168
    Protocol Droid Array Athenian200's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    8,828

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I just don't want to be like this woman:
    Right, that kind of thinking is the enemy. You nailed it. And one of my goals is to weaken such values and ideas enough that only people who genuinely WANT to be like that will have to be concerned with being like that. Mostly because it doesn't seem right to me for someone who doesn't want to be like that to be expected to change who they are.

    It honestly sounds as if you hate tradition as much, or possibly even more, than I do. It's hard to understand how you can see yourself as supporting tradition when you're so clearly opposed to it.

    Oh, well... I'm beginning to think MBTI really only defines how we view ourselves in relation to what we've associated with particular words and ideas, and how we see ourselves in contrast to the people around us. The word, "tradition" for instance... can mean totally different things to different people. For instance, since I'm somewhat left-wing/liberal, and grew up in the South... I've pretty much associated tradition with the old, backwards social values liberals fight against. It's gotten associated with words like "injustice" and "arbitrary." It's only really starting to hit me now, that it might not mean that to someone else...

  9. #169
    Perfect Gentleman! =D Array d@v3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    MBTI
    ISTJ
    Posts
    2,830

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    (Not all girls do the annoying things I described...
    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    They don't? Not even the majority of them? That is such very good news for me then!

    I just don't want to be like this woman:
    LoL! I don't blame you. But I bet the ISFJ/ISTJ girls would! They are just too afraid to admit it! :P
    Freedom Isn't Free. [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  10. #170
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    173 so/sx
    Posts
    17,428

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    A question: is anyone completely forgiving of "moral" transgressions, really? You would be comfortable being cheated on, having something stolen from you, being lied to?
    Just about everyone I know would find these types of behaviors unacceptable. Perhaps it is best not to generalize to such an extent.[/QUOTE]
    Nah, I think it's okay... everybody has issues with things like that, to an extent, but maybe SJs more than others.
    ...Hard question! I guess... I can be forgiving, but I'd need time, and I'd need need something in return - not a material thing, but they'd need to be sorry for what they did... or at least, I'd need a good reason (closure=good). One of my friends betrayed me a while back, and I found out later that her emotional state was pretty fragile at the time because her dad was in bad shape - a few months after she hurt me, he committed suicide. Gradually, as time went on, my dislike was replaced by pity, and finally I was completely over it.
    If it was something like stealing, I'd need, again, time to get over it, as well as proof from multiple sources that they wouldn't steal from me again. If they did end up stealing from me again, it would be MUCH harder to win my trust back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Right, that kind of thinking is the enemy. You nailed it. And one of my goals is to weaken such values and ideas enough that only people who genuinely WANT to be like that will have to be concerned with being like that. Mostly because it doesn't seem right to me for someone who doesn't want to be like that to be expected to change who they are.
    Couldn't have said it better myself I'm not sure if I'm active enough about it to say that fixing that is one of my personal goals (gender roles and such are not always on my mind), but when I see that sort of bias, I step in. I can't just let them say that, you know?
    I can see why it would be more on your mind, though. In the south, compared to where I live, sexism is a huge problem.

    It honestly sounds as if you hate tradition as much, or possibly even more, than I do. It's hard to understand how you can see yourself as supporting tradition when you're so clearly opposed to it.
    HOLD UP THERE!!! I never said that. I have immense respect for tradition. It's sexism, racism and all other similar bias that I can't stand. The thing is that so many traditions are deeply rooted in inexcusable bias that I just can't stick up for them.
    My mother used to live in the south, and her parents were VERY racist. They would tell her not to try on hats, because if a black person had tried it on, it would have lice in it. Thankfully, she became a worldly woman, and learned that her parents had it wrong on that subject. Every time I visit my grandparents, I get weird remarks about black people (like Tiger Woods), and it's awful to deal with ('cause, speaking of tradition, I've been brought up to speak respectfully to my elders, which means that when they say something reprehensible, I can't respond... which isn't exactly fun for someone like me). So you can trust me, Athenian, when I say that I've seen examples of tradition hurting society. Let me tell YOU: if the choice is between fighting for justice or fighting for tradition, I'm choosing justice!!!!
    </rant>

    Oh, well... I'm beginning to think MBTI really only defines how we view ourselves in relation to what we've associated with particular words and ideas, and how we see ourselves in contrast to the people around us. The word, "tradition" for instance... can mean totally different things to different people. For instance, since I'm somewhat left-wing/liberal, and grew up in the South... I've pretty much associated tradition with the old, backwards social values liberals fight against. It's gotten associated with words like "injustice" and "arbitrary." It's only really starting to hit me now, that it might not mean that to someone else...
    I completely and utterly see where you're coming from. In your situation, there is no doubt in my mind that I'd feel the same way. I am so thankful that there is such a thing as a "new tradition"... or else we'd be screwed.

    Thank you SO much for this, Athenian! This has been one of the best discussions I've had on this site. We're on the same page! Excellent!
    "When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world -- 'No, YOU move.'"
    - Captain America

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

Similar Threads

  1. [INTJ] Ask an INTJ
    By logan235711 in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 870
    Last Post: 05-22-2015, 05:04 AM
  2. [ISFJ] How to ask an ISFJ out?
    By Grungemouse in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 10-08-2009, 07:04 PM
  3. [MBTItm] How do you spot an ESTJ female?
    By INTJMom in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 12-23-2008, 01:27 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •