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Thread: Ask an ESTJ!

  1. #1681
    Aquaria Array mrcockburn's Avatar
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    How do you force yourselves to do things you really don't feel like doing, if there are no immediate consequences?

    Cause right now, I'm being a lazy fucking twat.
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  2. #1682
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infp View Post
    Hi. What do you do for an ENTJ who is depressed? I am trying all the things I know how to do, but I think I am basing my actions on what would work for me. I am an INFP, so it isn't working.

    A little background, the ENTJ is male, my husband, 32 yo and is depressed due to a job loss. He was great at his job, is a very hard worker, ethical, honest. It's the economy, not his fault. A fact he acknowledges, but it doesn't seem to matter to him. We are alright from a money perspective but that also doesn't seem to matter to him. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thank you
    Hi infp!

    I'm not sure if I'm qualified to answer your question, i.e. if he's actually depressed. But I can say for sure that extended unemployment can do a whole lot of bad to a person's morale -- which explains the bolded, because what matters to your ESTJ is the fact that he's unemployed now, not the reasons for his unemployment (no reason to feel guilty if it isn't your fault).

    My dad is an INTP and has been unemployed for the past six months and underemployed for the past year and a half, and he's had to keep himself very, very busy (with volunteering, projects around the house, etc) in order to stay sane. I'm guessing that a similar strategy would help your ESTJ if he isn't clinically depressed, i.e. keep him from moping about his lack of a job and help him keep a busy schedule -- or any schedule, at the very least. Your ESTJ will feel much better if he feels productive.
    Quote Originally Posted by mrcockburn View Post
    How do you force yourselves to do things you really don't feel like doing, if there are no immediate consequences?

    Cause right now, I'm being a lazy fucking twat.
    I doubt that my methods will carry over to an ESTP -- but just in case they do: If you have no deadline for the thing you have to do, give yourself a deadline anyway, and a carrot for when you accomplish the goal by the deadline. Do that with the knowledge that you will not give yourself the carrot if you don't meet the deadline. (Sample carrot: an episode of your favorite TV show? That's what I do, anyway.) Also, keep reminding yourself that it'll feel so much better when it's over with, than it feels when you avoid it. (I'm not sure if that will work with you because unfinished things really irritate me, almost as a general rule.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørrsken impersonating EJCC
    It's strange. I keep banning morons, but they keep signing up? What is this?
    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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  3. #1683
    Aquaria Array mrcockburn's Avatar
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    @EJCC

    I think I'm an ENxP, so I think my Ne is the problem. How do you control your Ne? Or is it manageable, because tertiary's easy to stomp out?

    In case I'm an ENTP, @Tamske help me! We don't even have Te to help squelch the Ne. Fe's too soft!
    3w4-9w1-?w6 (nearly headless nick)
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  4. #1684
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcockburn View Post
    @EJCC

    I think I'm an ENxP, so I think my Ne is the problem. How do you control your Ne? Or is it manageable, because tertiary's easy to stomp out?

    In case I'm an ENTP, @Tamske help me! We don't even have Te to help squelch the Ne. Fe's too soft!
    I could see you as ENxP. Probably ENFP, if one of those two.

    Actually, the method I mentioned earlier is the way I squelch my Ne. I have to make myself do it. "EJCC, you MUST get off the internet until you finish studying for your Arabic quiz. No internet at all, if you can't get it all done before midnight, because you need sleep!" My Ne ends up being sad if I fail but especially happy when I succeed because the happiness at being able to do FUN things is combined with Te satisfaction that The Job Is Done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørrsken impersonating EJCC
    It's strange. I keep banning morons, but they keep signing up? What is this?
    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  5. #1685
    Senior Member Array animenagai's Avatar
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    Yo ESTJ's, here's my question:

    I get stressed when my Te kicks in. As a Te dom, do you find that your stress more than others?
    Chimera of Filth

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  6. #1686
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by animenagai View Post
    Yo ESTJ's, here's my question:

    I get stressed when my Te kicks in. As a Te dom, do you find that your stress more than others?
    Disclaimer: I am feeling chill right now so I may be biased. BUT... I'd say that if anything, Te makes me personally feel more in control, not necessarily more stressed. If I have something that really needs to get done and my Te helps me do it, I am calm and not stressed because I trust my Te, and my Te knows exactly what to do.

    The downside of that is when I get put into an unfamiliar situation with no precedent and/or no way to know if I really am in control of how well I do on something... and that's when I do get stressed. Probably more stressed than other people, in similar/unfamiliar situations.

    On average, though, I'd say that Te does not make for a generally stressed-out person.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørrsken impersonating EJCC
    It's strange. I keep banning morons, but they keep signing up? What is this?
    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  7. #1687
    Senior Member Array animenagai's Avatar
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    Thanks EJCC! I can learn from that actually.
    Chimera of Filth

    A gruesome beast with dripping flesh
    Clings to me as a sick fixture
    My throbbing heart it gnawed apart
    It stalks and hunts me through mirrors

  8. #1688
    Writing... Array Tamske's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcockburn View Post
    @EJCC
    I think I'm an ENxP, so I think my Ne is the problem. How do you control your Ne? Or is it manageable, because tertiary's easy to stomp out?
    In case I'm an ENTP, @Tamske help me! We don't even have Te to help squelch the Ne. Fe's too soft!
    What works for me (sometimes): Fe and Te together! :-)
    Te - you need to do this
    Fe - hubby (or insert another person) will be happy if you did this
    Also, I've asked lots of questions here about specific J-style things I wanted to try. The hardest thing, to me, is something I need to concentrate on while it isn't any creative. Preparing lessons, I think I've used that example many times already. Putting Ne aside for a while is hard, getting your Ne doing specific creative work (eg. solve problem for work; continuing work on story instead of inventing totally new story) is even harder.

    A few tricks...
    1) A load of work and you put it off because it's such a huge load? Try not to look at the whole bunch of tasks at once. Tell yourself "okay, now I'll do *this* specific task, afterwards I'll decide if I continue or not." Then you can be content/proud already because you finished something, while you know that normally you wouldn't even have begun yet. Works quite well for me, especially for boring tasks that need attention.

    2) If you can't be creative, be at least productive. (Yes, in that order. If you're a Ne-dom, you need to use that order or you don't get anything). Not writing (<-insert your creative project here), just surfing the 'net? Turn off the computer and do dishes. You'll feel better afterwards because you did something, if only it was doing dishes in order to have the dishes done when the muse strikes. Because nothing is as frustrating as having to do dishes when you ARE inspired. If they are ready - Ne can have all your time and attention, without a guilty feeling of "I should work now". Try to see the "work now" as "having the stupid things done when I'm inspired and would like to do great things".

    3) Forgive yourself. ENTPs have a totally idealistic view of themselves - they think they can do anything: work when they are tired and do creative projects when they are not, not getting enough sleep and still be the creative and productive old self. We think we're more efficient than we are. All working day long, I imagine I'd write a thousand words when I come home, but then reality hits hard in the form of being exhausted after a long day's work. So did you mess about instead of working on your projects? Well that's okay. Don't be too hard. Did you mess about instead of getting your real work done? Well that's bad. Next time better.
    Got questions? Ask an ENTP!
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  9. #1689
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    ^ Great advice, Tamske! (I think my INTP dad uses your #2 strategy a lot.)
    You are such an excellent contributor to this thread.

    p.s. 3000 posts!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørrsken impersonating EJCC
    It's strange. I keep banning morons, but they keep signing up? What is this?
    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  10. #1690
    Row row row your boat Array SD45T-2's Avatar
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    I have read this entire thread. Not in one sitting, mind you. EJCC, you've done a great service to ESTJs. I've also watched your videos. Now I've got some questions.

    Do you know what a SD45T-2 is?

    Have you ever considered trying bracket racing or autocrossing? Have you ever watched Top Gear (BBC)? Have you ever been so fortunate as to hear a Lamborghini in real life? Are you fond of any particular cars? This covers make, model, or even a car your parents had when you were a kid that made an impression on you.

    I realize this is a bit cliched for ESTJs, but have you ever considered a career in law enforcement? I'm sure you'd turn out better than McNulty. You could probably be more like Lester Freamon, sitting in the corner knitting instead of carving. Anyway, you've said you'd like to be some sort of expert that people go to when they have certain problems. If it was a decent size agency there would be lots of different positions other than patrol that you could persue: traffic (motorcycles are cool), mounted (I'm not sure if horses or cool), narcotics, K9, EOD, MAIT, youth services, property crimes, identity theft, crimes against persons, gangs, etc. There are also things like fish & game, and the California Department of Insurance has sworn peace officers who investigate insurance fraud. Sometimes they do undercover stings.

    On a related note, have you read any Joseph Wambaugh?

    Have you watched any Adam-12?

    Are you into economics? Have you read any Thomas Sowell? He strikes me as very INTJ. I'm about half way through Basic Economics, and I'm loving it. I was looking at the world around me in new ways after just a first few chapters.

    Have you read any P.J. O'Rourke? I think he's awesome. I'm pretty sure he's an ENTP.

    Do you ever go shooting?

    Have you read Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets? I read it awhile before I watched The Wire, so I hit the ground running. I thought it was a great show. I largely disagree with David Simon's worldview, but I don't boubt the accuracy of the events portrayed.

    That brings me to another HBO showed that I loved. Have you watched Deadwood? I'm pretty sure David Milch is an ENTJ.

    Do you like the Marx Brothers? I recently decided to rewatch all of their movies and do it in chronological order. I just watched Monkey Business (1931).


    Maybe I should stop for now. I'm also an ESTJ, so you could ask me stuff too.
    Last edited by SD45T-2; 02-21-2012 at 04:50 PM. Reason: Needed a little tweaking
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