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Thread: Ask an ESTJ!

  1. #1541
    lords of summer EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbone View Post
    ESTJs, do you just show your Ne to those that you are really comfortable with? You know, the silly, goofy teasing stuff.
    Eh, to an extent. My teasing is harsher with close friends because I know that they won't be offended by it. Showing my Ne isn't like opening up, so it isn't something that requires a person's trust. I'll show it to whoever I want, because it's fun to use. (On the other hand, I guard my Fi with my life and only show it when I know for CERTAIN that it won't be injured. That tendency is why I was never on the debate team in high school....)

    I'd say that there's a particular type of Ne that is probably the first thing that people see when they meet me -- especially if they're shy. My Ne goes HAYWIRE when I'm talking to very quiet people.
    Also, even though there are times when I am serious, my ESTJ will go into this teasing and playfully poking mode. Even when I get upset, he'll just say something like, "Aw, you mad? Come here and let me give you a hug. That's what you wanted anyway...you should've just asked me. I can't tell you no." Sometimes I have to smile but sometimes it is irritating as hell (and yes--he knows that it will totally irritate me at times). Why does he do this?
    I think some of that is him trying to defuse a tense situation. He knows that being like that will make things better, so he acts that way. Seems like Te filling in for Fe.
    Quote Originally Posted by mrcockburn View Post
    Is he by any chance intoxicated? Or a closet ENFP? :P
    Getting ESTJs drunk is a GREAT way to make them seem like ENFPs. Or at least, ENFPs with a lot of loud and obnoxious Te.
    Quote Originally Posted by mrcockburn View Post
    ESTJs -- do you ever find that people get angry/offended if you assert yourself, no matter how diplomatically you do it?

    People in general, not just those close to you. It's pissing me off.
    I'm not sure. My first instinct is to say that I don't think so. But I definitely think that people I don't know well are more likely to be offended by my asserting myself, than people I do know well. If people know me well, they know that I am a very honest person, and they get used to it.
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  2. #1542
    Ginkgo
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    Hm. As an individual, what do you enjoy about knitting?

  3. #1543
    lords of summer EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    Hm. As an individual, what do you enjoy about knitting?
    Where to begin?

    - I love the feeling of wearing a piece of clothing and knowing that I made it from scratch, with my own hands
    - It has all the DIY philosophy appeal of any other handcraft (and I LOVE handcrafts!), but it doesn't require the money and space that, say, woodworking, would require (meaning it's perfect for a college student on a college budget in college housing)
    - It's a great creative outlet!
    - It can save a lot of money, if you buy right; you can make $5 scarves that you would have paid $100 for at a nice boutique
    - If you're good enough, you can see a cool article of clothing on TV or in a magazine, go "I want one of those!", and make it yourself
    - I have a natural talent for knitting, and I love knowing that there's something that I have a natural talent for; I love being able to look at what I'm knitting and know instinctively whether I've made a mistake, where the mistake is, and how to fix it.
    - It's a great conversation starter
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  4. #1544
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    EJCC, it seems like you are more introspective than many ESTJs... what do you ascribe that to (if anything)?

    Also, you give off a more caring, almost Fe-like vibe (at least based on the guesses for your altnerna-type on other threads). Do you think that's socialization? My xNFP mom claims that women are socialized to be FJ-like, and she was drilled on the social rules as a kid. Granted, she grew up in Texas and is a few generations older than you, but I'm curious about your perspective on that.

    Feel free to point to previous posts if you've already addressed these questions.

  5. #1545
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    EJCC's mum was an INFJ, as are many of her friends, but I think that she's also made it a priority to take a look at things too, which I would ascribe as an individual thing. Maybe also it's influenced by being an e1.

  6. #1546
    lords of summer EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    EJCC, it seems like you are more introspective than many ESTJs... what do you ascribe that to (if anything)?
    Before I go on, I'll say that I think most of it has to do with emotional maturity. It seems to me that without some sort of intervention -- be it from parents, friends, an event -- ESTJs, like xNTPs, are prone towards not really being aware of how they come across, and being surprised when people are offended by them. There has to be a moment, with them, when they realize why they come across that way, and what they need to do to fix it.

    Because a lot of ESTJs are type 8, and 8s don't care nearly as much what other people think of them, I think Fidelia's right that a lot of that has to do with being an enneagram 1. I'm at my happiest when I realize why things are the way they are (type 7), and I'm at my most miserable when I know something's wrong with me and I don't know how to fix it so I just sit and wallow in my angst (type 4), so it makes perfect sense that I'd be interested in figuring out why I am the way I am, so that I can improve my behavior as I see fit.

    This isn't all due to my discovery of personality psychology -- I think I started to be introspective in my freshman year of high school, after a friend (not a boyfriend) dumped me after telling me that I had never been a good friend to her. That was such a blow to me that I found myself introspecting to a degree that I never had, just to figure out what I had been doing wrong all those years. And one of the things I was doing wrong was not knowing how to deal with her when she was upset. So that, plus maturity, plus having an INFJ mom to ask for advice, led me to learn to imitate Fe -- not to actually use it, but to always remember some Fe-style tactics to use whenever necessary. It also helps that, in the past few years, I befriended a psych major and future therapist who loves to talk about therapy techniques to the point that I know a few now -- e.g. "It sounds like you've been feeling..." as a method of validation.

    Also, you give off a more caring, almost Fe-like vibe (at least based on the guesses for your altnerna-type on other threads). Do you think that's socialization? My xNFP mom claims that women are socialized to be FJ-like, and she was drilled on the social rules as a kid. Granted, she grew up in Texas and is a few generations older than you, but I'm curious about your perspective on that.
    Surprisingly, I don't think socialization had a lot to do with it, for me. My parents made a point of raising me in a fairly gender-neutral way; not pressuring me to do feminine things. I was friends with as many boys as girls. For a while, I think I communicated better with guys. (I still do, but I get the feeling that young men tend to be intimidated when girls communicate on their level; boys love it, but young men, being insecure people, are threatened by it.) But if it is socialization, I think it's socialization relating to just how many NFs I'm friends with. NFs have different needs, sympathy-wise, and I've had to train myself to act accordingly, for fear of becoming the thoughtless jerk I was when I was a kid. (That'd be the 2 wing. )

    I'm rambling, and I could keep rambling, but I think you get the idea.
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  7. #1547
    Saponi Redbone's Avatar
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    Eh, to an extent. My teasing is harsher with close friends because I know that they won't be offended by it. Showing my Ne isn't like opening up, so it isn't something that requires a person's trust. I'll show it to whoever I want, because it's fun to use. (On the other hand, I guard my Fi with my life and only show it when I know for CERTAIN that it won't be injured. That tendency is why I was never on the debate team in high school....)
    Can understand about the Fi. He's shown it from time to time and wow... I can understand why you would be guarded about it. I think the worst times have been when he cannot understand why something isn't working and he's constantly in this loop of "what am I doing wrong?" and is slowly but surely coming unglued by it. Those were the times when I just let him vent. Of course now that things are better, he has re-written history: "It wasn't that bad." I didn't comment on that except to say that I'm glad he reached smooth waters.

    I think some of that is him trying to defuse a tense situation. He knows that being like that will make things better, so he acts that way. Seems like Te filling in for Fe.
    This is interesting and it fits. He's not quite sure what to do but he has to do something. It's like he's running this dialogue in his head: "Sympathizing? Is that actually 'helping'? Nah. Make her laugh? I'll do that, it's better than nothing. And I know sometimes it helps her to feel better." Even so, I try to keep things like that with him low-key because I know he can feel very helpless and angry when he cannot fix something for someone he cares about.

    He is one of the few people I will go to when I am stuck in a Ti/Si loop. I have found that dominant and auxiliary extroverted thinkers are really excellent for kick-starting my Ne again and getting me out of that damn loop. I will tell them what is on my mind and they can immediately tell me where the entry point is to get things going again. You guys are great!

    Holy smoly--post 1000!!!!

  8. #1548
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Where to begin?

    - I love the feeling of wearing a piece of clothing and knowing that I made it from scratch, with my own hands
    - It has all the DIY philosophy appeal of any other handcraft (and I LOVE handcrafts!), but it doesn't require the money and space that, say, woodworking, would require (meaning it's perfect for a college student on a college budget in college housing)
    - It's a great creative outlet!
    - It can save a lot of money, if you buy right; you can make $5 scarves that you would have paid $100 for at a nice boutique
    - If you're good enough, you can see a cool article of clothing on TV or in a magazine, go "I want one of those!", and make it yourself
    - I have a natural talent for knitting, and I love knowing that there's something that I have a natural talent for; I love being able to look at what I'm knitting and know instinctively whether I've made a mistake, where the mistake is, and how to fix it.
    - It's a great conversation starter
    Lol. I thought you might like this=


  9. #1549
    lords of summer EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    Lol. I thought you might like this=

    Awesome. Reminds me of this cross stitch:
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  10. #1550
    lords of summer EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbone View Post
    Can understand about the Fi. He's shown it from time to time and wow... I can understand why you would be guarded about it.
    Could you elaborate on this? If there's yet another good reason for me to keep my Fi from people, I would love to know. It's always good to hear how I come across.
    I think the worst times have been when he cannot understand why something isn't working and he's constantly in this loop of "what am I doing wrong?" and is slowly but surely coming unglued by it. Those were the times when I just let him vent. Of course now that things are better, he has re-written history: "It wasn't that bad." I didn't comment on that except to say that I'm glad he reached smooth waters.
    Right! I remember when we were talking about that before. I'm glad he's come out of it, too. I can relate to both of you, in that situation, so I'm especially glad it's over!
    This is interesting and it fits. He's not quite sure what to do but he has to do something. It's like he's running this dialogue in his head: "Sympathizing? Is that actually 'helping'? Nah. Make her laugh? I'll do that, it's better than nothing. And I know sometimes it helps her to feel better." Even so, I try to keep things like that with him low-key because I know he can feel very helpless and angry when he cannot fix something for someone he cares about.
    You are exactly right on what the thought process is. And the bolded really rings true for me.
    He is one of the few people I will go to when I am stuck in a Ti/Si loop. I have found that dominant and auxiliary extroverted thinkers are really excellent for kick-starting my Ne again and getting me out of that damn loop. I will tell them what is on my mind and they can immediately tell me where the entry point is to get things going again. You guys are great!
    Thanks, Redbone!
    Holy smoly--post 1000!!!!

    YEAH!! Congrats!
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

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