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Thread: Ask an ESTJ!

  1. #1511
    Writing... Array Tamske's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    ESTJ: Well obviously this is the case because X=Y.
    INTP: Actually, no. I read an article this morning that said that X=Z and Z=/=Y. Clear as day.
    ESTJ: No way. Where did you read that?
    INTP: ZXY Magazine.
    ESTJ (sulking): ... Huh. Okay.
    INTP: Seriously, I'll pull it up on my smartphone. Here it is.
    ESTJ (pissed off): ... Sure enough. There it is. (sulks away)

    (10 minutes later, separate conversation)
    ESTJ: So I thought that X=Y before, but it turns out there was this article in ZXY magazine before that totally refuted that...
    Other people: Hmm, interesting!

    So, in other words... As embarrassing as it is for the ESTJ initially, they'd rather gain the right opinion, than beat you in an argument with the wrong opinion. We want people to stick up for their arguments because we want wrong opinions to be eliminated.
    I tip my hat to that.
    Because, when someone proves my wrong, I tend to argue. Because I don't want to say black if I said white at the beginning of an argument. Even if I realise very well that the truth is black, I'll stick to white because I don't want to be perceived as inconsistent with myself. And then I'll invent arguments and try to get the upper hand any way.
    Which is silly, because I'm defending something false. And it isn't a sign of inconsistency or weakness to change your mind upon learning new facts.
    Got questions? Ask an ENTP!
    I'm female. I just can't draw women

  2. #1512
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamske View Post
    I tip my hat to that.
    Because, when someone proves my wrong, I tend to argue. Because I don't want to say black if I said white at the beginning of an argument. Even if I realise very well that the truth is black, I'll stick to white because I don't want to be perceived as inconsistent with myself. And then I'll invent arguments and try to get the upper hand any way.
    Which is silly, because I'm defending something false.
    Well, it makes you much better at debating than me! I hate debating, because it requires the process that you're talking about, which doesn't come naturally to me. I'm jealous of NTs, that they seem to have such a talent for it.
    And it isn't a sign of inconsistency or weakness to change your mind upon learning new facts.
    +1

    I wish more people agreed with you.

    and it's nice enough to
    make a man
    weep, but I don't
    weep, do
    you?


    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  3. #1513
    Writing... Array Tamske's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Well, it makes you much better at debating than me! I hate debating, because it requires the process that you're talking about, which doesn't come naturally to me. I'm jealous of NTs, that they seem to have such a talent for it.
    Why would you be jealous of that? Defending something false because you don't want to show that you're convinced? That's not something I'm proud of...
    Got questions? Ask an ENTP!
    I'm female. I just can't draw women

  4. #1514
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamske View Post
    Why would you be jealous of that? Defending something false because you don't want to show that you're convinced? That's not something I'm proud of...
    Well I'm not jealous of that, per se... Mostly I was just trying to make you feel better. I try and try to use my Fe and it never quite works the way I want it to.

    and it's nice enough to
    make a man
    weep, but I don't
    weep, do
    you?


    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  5. #1515
    Writing... Array Tamske's Avatar
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    How would you make an ESTJ keep up with a diet, especially if it doesn't seem to have any results? The ESTJ sense of duty doesn't do the trick...
    Got questions? Ask an ENTP!
    I'm female. I just can't draw women

  6. #1516
    Aquaria Array mrcockburn's Avatar
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    Does diet affect your productivity level? For instance, I ate two Big Macs, a large milkshake and three KitKats for lunch, and I was too tired to work at my best.

    Do you feel/react to the affects of food too, or can you just "ignore" them?
    3w4-9w1-?w6 (nearly headless nick)
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  7. #1517
    Writing... Array Tamske's Avatar
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    ^ I'm not the ESTJ in question... Hubby wants to lose weight, mainly for health reasons. He's frustrated because he's abandoned chocolate, sausages, scrapings from the pan etc and no result. I support him and cook healthy food (which I'm used to do anyways) and no desserts (which is somewhat frustrating for me too, as I love baking) and I'm the one losing weight now. Maybe consult a professional?
    Got questions? Ask an ENTP!
    I'm female. I just can't draw women

  8. #1518
    reborn Array PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamske View Post
    How would you make an ESTJ keep up with a diet, especially if it doesn't seem to have any results? The ESTJ sense of duty doesn't do the trick...
    I would say you just need a plan to follow ... an ESTJ can adhere to a plan even if it makes them a bit grumbly. Simply cutting stuff out will not produce results (for most people) anyways ... and also contributes to a sense of deprivation. A plan will work.

    Now, which plan? Losing weight is math for the most part, so any plan that promotes healthy food choices and calories in < calories expended should do the trick. I have been doing the "Eat to Live" plan for a while, and hubs has followed along, with both of us losing about 15 pounds to date.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  9. #1519
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcockburn View Post
    Does diet affect your productivity level? For instance, I ate two Big Macs, a large milkshake and three KitKats for lunch, and I was too tired to work at my best.

    Do you feel/react to the affects of food too, or can you just "ignore" them?
    I usually can ignore it -- especially if I have sufficient caffeine, and/or if I give myself a mental health break and take a walk or really do anything to get myself energized.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamske View Post
    ^ I'm not the ESTJ in question... Hubby wants to lose weight, mainly for health reasons. He's frustrated because he's abandoned chocolate, sausages, scrapings from the pan etc and no result. I support him and cook healthy food (which I'm used to do anyways) and no desserts (which is somewhat frustrating for me too, as I love baking) and I'm the one losing weight now. Maybe consult a professional?
    Personally, I don't believe in dieting, because even the word "diet" implies that it's temporary, that at some point you can go back to eating "normal" food and everything will be fine. So, whatever you guys end up doing food-wise, I would suggest that you make it permanent.

    Some un-asked-for advice: I read somewhere that you should never feel like you're depriving yourself of food that you want, or else you'll just binge on it later to make up for it. So I'd suggest keeping dessert, chocolate, etc, but in moderation (e.g. smaller portions, not always getting seconds), and from lower-calorie but equally delicious recipes. Also, you can only lose so much weight if you just change your eating habits and don't change your exercise regimen.

    But to finally answer your question: I agree with PeaceBaby. Following a plan is always better for ESTJs -- especially if it's detailed and proven to work. And consulting a professional might be a good idea? Not sure. It definitely sounds like he has a slower metabolism than you do. Which of you has the more active lifestyle? (I don't mean to intrude or be presumptuous.)
    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    I would say you just need a plan to follow ... an ESTJ can adhere to a plan even if it makes them a bit grumbly. Simply cutting stuff out will not produce results (for most people) anyways ... and also contributes to a sense of deprivation. A plan will work.

    Now, which plan? Losing weight is math for the most part, so any plan that promotes healthy food choices and calories in < calories expended should do the trick. I have been doing the "Eat to Live" plan for a while, and hubs has followed along, with both of us losing about 15 pounds to date.
    Congrats, PeaceBaby! And I totally agree with your post.

    and it's nice enough to
    make a man
    weep, but I don't
    weep, do
    you?


    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  10. #1520
    Boldly Gone Array Malice's Avatar
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    Dear ESTJ
    If you were a parent, what is the honest best you can hope for your son/daughter's future? Because I'm hearing 'happiness', but I refuse to believe it's as go with the flow as that. I want all the nitty gritty details.
    a little less conversation, a little more action please
    . captain's blog.

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