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Thread: Ask an ESTJ!

  1. #1481
    Lay the coin on my tongue Array SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Why would an ESTJ offer to drive you to the airport when you didn't even hint around for a lift, give you his mom's sleeping drops to help you through the flight because you're phobic, sit with you at the airport until 1:30 in the morning, give your hand a comforting squeeze when he left...and then decide to start dating someone else a month later?

    Oh hells, I'm still a little hung up about this, apparently!
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  2. #1482
    Striving for balance Array Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean. I think I need context for this comment.

    Do we ever! I trip on cracks in the sidewalk all the time. I'm usually totally deaf to people trying to get my attention, when I'm walking somewhere. And I can walk past a great big sign every day for weeks at a time without even seeing it. I just get so lost in thought, and so focused, when I'm going somewhere...
    OMG You too??? That's so funny. So do I! hahaha <333 Yay, I'm not the only one.
    If you are interested in language, words, linguistics, or foreign languages, check out my blog and read, post, and/or share.

  3. #1483
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    ESTJ and I were having a discussion. I was having an issue with him fussing over me. I've been single for six years and have had no trouble taking care of myself so when I wanted to walk out to my car at midnight and fix it (real quick fix. I had just found the answer to what I needed to do online and was excited to see if it would work) he sort of said, "no. you're not going outside at this hour". "Uh...excuse me, DAD?....yes, I am. You can go with me if you're that worried." Anyway, I went without him and the fix worked but his "order" bothered me and when I came back I wanted to leave for a bit and drive around. This is something I do when I need some space and someone is annoying me and I can't get away.

    ESTJ was confused and knew something was bothering me and asked me what was wrong. I told him that for 32 years I've been taking care of myself just fine without him in my life and now that he is I felt he's trying to take away some of my independence and I didn't like it. We sat down and talked and he basically said that he cares a lot about me and he's not trying to take anything away from me but that if something happened to me on his watch he'd never forgive himself and he worries about me. He almost got a little emotional and then he said that "he was on the edge of more than just liking me". I just told him that every once in a while I'm going to need some space and he needs to give it too me without pouting.

    Anyway, I was surprised to hear his admittance of almost love?
    Awwwwwwwwwww. That's so great. What a sweet guy.

    I totally relate to both of you in that situation. And jsyk: we're very quick learners about that sort of thing. I can almost guarantee -- since he cares that much about you and seems like a healthy and relatively issue-free ESTJ, from what you've said about him -- that he will learn from that experience and not nag you as much anymore. I mean, you'll always get this sort of interaction:

    ESTJ: Are you going to do ___?
    You: Yes.
    ESTJ: Are you sure? (insert concern here)
    You: Yes, because (insert explanation here)
    ESTJ: ...Okay, I trust you.

    So far as I know, there's no way to keep an ESTJ from being at least a little bit inquisitive about those things; I think it's our Ne that makes us want to question things we don't understand, and make sure that Te doesn't have to step in to fix a problem -- because if it isn't a problem, why fix it? It's actually pretty good evidence that your ESTJ is well-adjusted; if he was the tyrannical type of ESTJ, he probably wouldn't even accept your explanation, and would boss you around, because his way was the only way. Thank god for our tertiary Ne, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Why would an ESTJ offer to drive you to the airport when you didn't even hint around for a lift, give you his mom's sleeping drops to help you through the flight because you're phobic, sit with you at the airport until 1:30 in the morning, give your hand a comforting squeeze when he left...and then decide to start dating someone else a month later?

    Oh hells, I'm still a little hung up about this, apparently!
    Oh jeez. Is this the same guy you were asking about before? Who was seemingly leading you on but just thought of you as a great, platonic friend? I am so sorry.

    To answer your question (even though it was probably hypothetical ), it's because we're like that with everyone we care about, regardless of whether they're family, close friends, or significant others.

    and it's nice enough to
    make a man
    weep, but I don't
    weep, do
    you?


    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  4. #1484
    Lay the coin on my tongue Array SilkRoad's Avatar
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    [edited] I just need to get past stuff...I picked the wrong type to be if I want to do that, apparently thanks EJCC!
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  5. #1485
    Rainy Day Woman Array MDP2525's Avatar
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    Yes. He is stubborn as hell (we both are) but he is a very good person and I"m happy with him.
    ~Live and learn from fools and from sages~




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  6. #1486
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    Yes. He is stubborn as hell (we both are) but he is a very good person and I"m happy with him.
    I'm glad. Here's to the two of you!

    and it's nice enough to
    make a man
    weep, but I don't
    weep, do
    you?


    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  7. #1487
    Senior Member Array Idec Sdawkminn's Avatar
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    I don't know if this or something similar has been asked here, but there are a lot of pages to read. Anyway, how would an xNTP like I believe myself to be get on better terms with an ESTJ? I'm pretty certain my co-worker who is twice my age is one. I can probably come up with theoretical solutions, but I'm looking for something that would be reasonable for an xNTP to be able to consistently do. We currently butt heads a lot. I can give more information and examples if you would like.
    "I see you're drinking 1%. Is that because you think you're FAT? 'Cause you're not. You could be drinking whole milk if you wanted to."

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  8. #1488
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Idec Sdawkminn View Post
    I don't know if this or something similar has been asked here, but there are a lot of pages to read. Anyway, how would an xNTP like I believe myself to be get on better terms with an ESTJ? I'm pretty certain my co-worker who is twice my age is one. I can probably come up with theoretical solutions, but I'm looking for something that would be reasonable for an xNTP to be able to consistently do. We currently butt heads a lot. I can give more information and examples if you would like.
    More information and examples would be excellent. After all, there are many very different ways that an xNTP and an ESTJ could butt heads.

    and it's nice enough to
    make a man
    weep, but I don't
    weep, do
    you?


    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  9. #1489
    Senior Member Array Idec Sdawkminn's Avatar
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    I have a blog entry about it when I was venting. I'll copy from that:

    He's the telephony guy at the place I work at and I'm helpdesk. He likes reminding me that he has 30+ years experience in telephony and he can't teach 30+ years experience. Ever since I started, he's always had a problem with me. I don't know his type, but I guess ESxJ. My wife (we believe ISFJ) says he just doesn't like me and uses any excuse he can to blame me for something.

    One time, ONE TIME, I played a joke on him. I remotely placed a Mexican song on his computer and set it to play instead of the "click" sound that Internet Explorer makes when starting to load a page. Ever since then, whenever ANYTHING goes wrong on his computer, one of the things out of his mouth is "you're not messing with me and making this happen, right?" Yeah, Doug, I'm really going to make your email repeatedly fail to connect to the server so you can't get your email and bug me all day about it. That's a really funny joke. I tell him that I played ONE joke on him and that I'll never make that mistake again, but each time something happens he always suspects me as one of the possible causes.

    He used to complain to our boss about things he heard all the time from other people in the company, like how they didn't get their computer fixed right away. He's stopped because our boss never did anything about it and when I'd ask our boss about it, he'd say that he has his own opinions of people and doesn't let other people make that decision for him.

    He's also very controlling. He acts like my boss when he's not. When he hears of a computer problem someone is having, he understandably informs me of it since he knows next to nothing about computers. However, he doesn't just inform me. He proceeds to tell me that I need to help them fix it and to call them right away. He doesn't care what I'm working on at the time. He sometimes settles for me calling them soon, but keeps checking back with me to see if I helped them yet and gets all aggressive and accusatory if I haven't. He says that since he was the point of contact, he is responsible for making sure it gets done, or he'll look bad for my shortcomings. He also dislikes how I sit at my desk all day and do the vast majority of tech support over the phone or remotely connecting to people's computers. I'm sure he believes I should be out and about all over fixing everything in person. Yeah, maybe that wouldn't be so bad if I didn't have to manage servers and domain settings and everything else computer-related in the company.

    But one thing that really bugs me is our difficulty in communication. He will come in my office and ask me a very direct, accusatory-toned question about something. I immediately feel defensive and have difficulty figuring out how to answer it.

    "Did you fix so-and-so's problem?"
    well, i tried something and i'm not sure if it fixed it, but it didn't happen again when i was there, but they said it doesn't always happen every time, so i said to let me know if it happened again, and i just got an email from them saying it just happened again, but i'm working on someone else's problem right now that is more important... how the fuck do i answer this question? "I tried something, but it didn't fix it, so-"
    "So you just left it unfinished? You know, you really need to finish what you start and not leave people hanging. Finish one thing at a time."

    Then it just turns into me making defensive statements and him saying I'm not answering his questions and trying to avoid the situation. The most common things he says that I hate are "that didn't answer my question" and "you sound just like a politician." He also always accuses me of giving him little bits of information to his questions and making him fish and fish for more information to get his question answered. I feel like I gave him a perfectly satisfactory answer, but it always confuses him and he accuses me of playing word games with him and trying to avoid answering him.

    What sparked this thread was what happened yesterday. Last week I had just set up a temporary remote location where I set up a kiosk computer for the majority of our employees there to use for checking email and stuff. He had to go there yesterday to do some telephony stuff. He called me and this is almost exactly how the conversation went:

    Me: Hey, Doug.
    Him: Hey. Why is the kiosk password-protected?
    Me: Uh... it shouldn't be...
    Him: Well it is. What's the password?
    Me: I don't remember there being a password on it.
    (from here on he maintains a loud, upset voice)
    Him: You need to remember these things! How did you get into it?
    Me: I just pressed Enter with no password.
    Him: I tried that and it won't work. Just tell me what password I need to get into it.
    Me: Well, try "password1". That's what they are usually set to.
    Him: What did you use to get into it?
    Me: I told you, I didn't put one in.
    Him: Then how did you get in?
    Me: I just pressed Enter without a password.
    Him: But that's impossible. It wouldn't have changed between then and now.
    Me: I'm not sure, but try "password1".
    Him: I'm not going to play your game of "try this, try that". I'm not going to play that game. Just tell me what password I need to get into it.
    Me: I don't know what the password is for it.
    Him: Weren't you the one who set it up?
    Me: Yeah.
    Him: Then you should know. What did you use to get into it?
    Me: I didn't need a password to get into it, but "password1" is the one we usually use.
    Him: Do I need to call someone else? Would calling someone else get me what I need?
    Me: Uh... I don't--
    Him: Do I need to call Ed? (our boss) Do I need to call Ed and tell him you are unwilling to help me?
    Me: No, Ed wouldn't know the password. And I'm trying to help you. Try "password1". That's most likely what it is.
    Him: ............it didn't work.
    Me: Is the domain set to (our domain name)?
    Him: No.
    Me: Set it to that and try "password1".
    (his voice finally became calm)
    Him: Okay, so how do we get rid of the password so the people here don't have to sign into it? Otherwise we'll be getting called every 10 minutes.
    Me: So the password worked?
    Him: Yes. How do I tell if there's an internet connection without going to the internet?
    Me: Well, it should be plugged into the Ethernet cable coming out of the wall, so it should be connected.
    Him: I'm in the middle of a grass field!
    Me: You are? You're not at Redmond?
    Him: No, I'm at the Bend location.
    Me: Oh, I thought you were at Redmond. The one in Redmond doesn't have a password. No wonder I didn't know what password you were talking about.
    (the rest was short and irrelevant and I don't remember it)

    But the part that really confused and irritated me was:

    Him: Do I need to call Ed? Do I need to call Ed and tell him you are unwilling to help me?

    Really? Call Ed? Where the fuck does he get that I'm unwilling to help him? Does he really think I was withholding the answer from him because I wanted to make him upset? Why would I want to waste my time on the phone with him just to do that? Why is his initial assumption that I'm intentionally being difficult?
    "I see you're drinking 1%. Is that because you think you're FAT? 'Cause you're not. You could be drinking whole milk if you wanted to."

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  10. #1490
    Writing... Array Tamske's Avatar
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    ENTP versus ESTJ:

    ENTP: I'll try to get the floor wiped by Friday.
    By Friday, the floor wasn't done. I meant: wiping the floor was the goal I was striving at. I knew all sorts of other things needed to be done first, like clean the kitchen, dusting, and of course putting things on their right place. All this costs a lot of time and energy and aren't the things that I want to do, because I see that floor being dirty and want that clean.
    ESTJ wasn't amused. Why say you're going to wipe the floor and not do it? If you knew you wouldn't get at that task, why didn't you say so? Why didn't you say: "I'll put the rubbish away, then I'll dust and clean the kitchen" because, that's what you did!
    This ENTP needed to get the goal into her mind before she was able to begin all those other things. Moreover, I didn't want to think about all those other things, not talk about them, just do them.
    Maybe, next time, I'll say: "I'll strive to wipe the floor, but you see there's lots of other things that need to get done first, so maybe I'll not get to the floor"?

    Another ENTP-ESTJ conflict during the same cleaning:
    I wanted to do the mental work of checking grammar and spelling in my novel, too, and I wanted to alternate between that and the physical work of cleaning. ESTJ didn't think that as work, and I should put work before play! But I don't agree with that. In principle, yes, of course, you've got to put work before play. It's the sensible thing to do, the right work-ethic, etc. BUT. I'm certain that, if I'm allowed to alternate, both things would get done more efficiently than if I had to clean first and check grammar later. I just can't clean for more than a few hours. And I can't check grammar in one sitting, either. So alternating is the solution. Of course, the CLEANING would get done earlier if I did it first - and that's the thing that counts for the ESTJ. Grammar checking is not "work" because it doesn't need to be done. To the ENTP, it IS work, because it's boring.

    Edit, thought about another ENTP-ESTJ clash.
    ESTJ went to supermarket. I felt like a huge brunch and went to the baker's. I was preparing chocolate milk when hubby came home. Baby was making quite some noise in the living room.
    Me: I'm in the kitchen. I've went to the baker's already so no need to worry about that! (proud)
    He: you know fully well that I can't understand you when baby's making noise. And why did you go to the baker's? I planned to do that together now! And I see you're making chocolate milk for me but really you should not talk to me when I can't hear you.
    Me: I just said I was here, what's the big problem?
    He: I didn't know you'd go to the baker's already, you didn't tell me. We need to buy some more bread because the baker's closed next week.
    Me: Er... we can go back, you know. It's not that far.
    A bit later he was calmed down and he confessed: "I was actually angry at myself, I've thought about warning about buying extra bread for days and I'm too late now."
    I get it, more or less, but... to me there was never any problem. There isn't a law forbidding us to go twice to the baker's in one day.
    Got questions? Ask an ENTP!
    I'm female. I just can't draw women

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