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Thread: Ask an ESTJ!

  1. #1421
    Rainy Day Woman Array MDP2525's Avatar
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    Fi: I go to the store, I see that they don't have a CD that I like. That annoys me, not just because I had wanted to buy it, but because I feel like the store ought to have that CD in stock because it's so good. So I go to the desk and ask them to order several copies, not just one, so that way there'll be an extra one for whoever else stops by. My Fi is then satisfied, because I did a good deed. (There’s lots of Te in here too, but I have a hard time separating my Te from my Fi, when I talk about it.
    LOL. This reminds me of when my ESTJ got sick and had to go to a walk-in clinic. Well, he was irritable already. (big baby when he's sick! He wanted me to drive him to the doctor ) and we went in. Waited for about an hour and a half. When I met him after he was pissed. He didn't feel he should have waited so long. He told me that while he was back in the office he asked the nurse why the wait was so long and he made a sarcastic comment to the doctor when asked about his symptoms.
    He then posted a FB update about how no one should use that particular walk-in clinic when he got home.

    From my perspective, I expect to wait at walk-ins. To his benefit, the staff did seem a bit unorganized with time management but it was something that wouldn't bother me at all but that got his Fi going.
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  2. #1422
    Writing... Array Tamske's Avatar
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    I think your Fi is doing the big motivation things, while Te goes around with the day to day practical things. Fi decides what you want, Te decides on how to get it. Because you're a Te-dom, I expect you to be more at ease with (talking about) practical problems and tasks rather than about the meaning of life. Does that sound about right?
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    Senior Member Array ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post

    Not sure. It could be any number of things, based on your information. Can you elaborate? Can you give an example of an exchange you've had with him?
    I just now found this.

    Anyways, I figured it all out. He is a really awkward sp/so. He's also very traditional and Catholic, and constantly trying to "prove" his masculinity. He also is district manager of what else? A tire store. While I find it all annoying, he's not a bad person. We're just VERY different lol..... and I met his comment with distaste.
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  4. #1424
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    Hi guys... a question that i already placed in the chat... but would like to hear some more about it if you will


    How fond are ESTJ's of responsibility "and" self-responsibility?

    Please give examples of how you see you deal with responsibility and what moves you to be it that way.

    Thanks
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  5. #1425
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Okay, what happened here was that I wrote a huge reply to Little Linguist, which my computer promptly deleted for no good reason, which annoyed me to the point that I avoided the thread for a long time after... So I apologize.

    Here's a reply, for realz this time:
    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    In my classes, I try to emphasize people 'discovering things' for themselves, and I'm there to give a 'helping hand' when necessary. Let me give you a concrete example:

    I have a class where I'm doing Office Skills. Since this is a very practical class, I have to present it in a practical way, really. So I think we can't just talk about stuff; we have to do something constructive. So I often have classes with the theory and homework with the practice. That of course means that I have a crap-load of work because I have to correct a lot of stuff, but I find this really gives the best of both worlds. Sometimes in class, we have telephoning role plays or filling out forms together, things like that. We also have a lot of discussions and partner/group work to spice things up a bit. I try not to have the same ol' routine every time.

    One criticism that I get - and that's why I'm writing you because I think that it's an SJ problem that you could provide some good insight on - is that I'm not 'clear' or 'structured' enough. Now I *think* I'm really structured, except on off-days when I am kind of not having a too-good grasp on my Te, but they obviously don't. So I'm wondering: what do you expect in terms of structure. See, I'm a bit worried about spelling everything out before we even start, because I'd think that'd take the fun out of discovering it on your own. Besides, I don't want to make people feel like it's a kindergarten class by telling them everything step by step when it's college.

    But maybe I've been going about it the wrong way, so I'd appreciate any feedback you'd be willing to give.
    If I were your student, I would really like you Everything you've said has sounded like your class would be really fun and your students would learn a lot. My only concern is the bolded; if you said that on the first day of class, when talking about your expectations etc, I would immediately start worrying that I wouldn't figure everything out. What if I got left behind? What if I totally missed the point of the class?? What if my grades sucked and I had no idea how to fix them, and the professor (i.e. you) told me to figure it out on my own?

    Of course, that entire concern would be moot if I were naturally good at the topic. But if I wasn't, and if I struggled with the concepts, that would be where I'd start to worry. Also: you seem like the sort of professor who would make yourself very available for questions whenever needed, and would help people if they were having trouble, and that's really what matters most.
    Quote Originally Posted by MDP2525 View Post
    (big baby when he's sick! He wanted me to drive him to the doctor )
    'Cuz he's a man.
    [YOUTUBE="VbmbMSrsZVQ"]Man Cold[/YOUTUBE]
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    From my perspective, I expect to wait at walk-ins. To his benefit, the staff did seem a bit unorganized with time management but it was something that wouldn't bother me at all but that got his Fi going.
    I wonder if he'd been to a walk-in clinic before that didn't have as long a wait? I mean, I figure that there must have been some kind of precedent that he was expecting it to follow. Of course, the man cold had something to do with it too But still.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamske View Post
    I think your Fi is doing the big motivation things, while Te goes around with the day to day practical things. Fi decides what you want, Te decides on how to get it. Because you're a Te-dom, I expect you to be more at ease with (talking about) practical problems and tasks rather than about the meaning of life. Does that sound about right?
    It definitely sounds right. And the bolded is exactly why I have such a hard time separating a Te example from an Fi example.

    Quote Originally Posted by ICUP View Post
    I just now found this.

    Anyways, I figured it all out. He is a really awkward sp/so. He's also very traditional and Catholic, and constantly trying to "prove" his masculinity. He also is district manager of what else? A tire store. While I find it all annoying, he's not a bad person. We're just VERY different lol..... and I met his comment with distaste.
    Ah, yes, that makes sense. Glad it got figured out!
    Quote Originally Posted by RicPTmc View Post
    Hi guys... a question that i already placed in the chat... but would like to hear some more about it if you will


    How fond are ESTJ's of responsibility "and" self-responsibility?

    Please give examples of how you see you deal with responsibility and what moves you to be it that way.

    Thanks
    Well, I don't know if we're "fond" of it... I don't know about other ESTJs, but I can resent my responsibilities and feel trapped by them as much as anyone. But the thing about ESTJs (and ISTJs, too), is that we recognize that there are things that we HAVE to do. Those things could be based on precedent (Si) or values (Fi), but either way, we use our Te to make sure they get done.

    Example: My grandmother died a couple of months ago. I was away at school and far from home. I called my mom and told her that if she needed me at the funeral, I would buy a plane ticket and skip school so I could go. I made this offer because I thought it was my responsibility as a daughter and as a granddaughter to do that (Fi), and also because I figured that based on other people I knew whose grandparents had died, it was what grandchildren were supposed to do (Si). But my mom talked me out of it, with a lot of reassurance and almost telling me that she didn't want me there, because she wanted me to be in school.

    EDIT: I'm also not sure what you mean by "self-responsibility"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørrsken impersonating EJCC
    It's strange. I keep banning morons, but they keep signing up? What is this?
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  6. #1426
    Lyric Baritone Array Kierva's Avatar
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    This probably has been asked but I'll just ask it because of my own laziness to scroll through hundred over pages.

    How would you differ from an ENTJ with a Te + Se loop. How would a Te + Ne loop look for you? State examples. Also, how does Te + Si work for you guys?
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  7. #1427
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uwace View Post
    This probably has been asked but I'll just ask it because of my own laziness to scroll through hundred over pages.
    Understandable.
    How would you differ from an ENTJ with a Te + Se loop. How would a Te + Ne loop look for you? State examples.
    Not sure what the bolded would look like, but I can direct you to the exact post when I described Te/Ne loops: right here.
    Also, how does Te + Si work for you guys?
    I actually explained it in the post right above yours But let me know if you need more detail; I was pretty general and vague there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørrsken impersonating EJCC
    It's strange. I keep banning morons, but they keep signing up? What is this?
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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  8. #1428
    Lyric Baritone Array Kierva's Avatar
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    LOL that's a pretty hilarious scenario you have there. We ENTJs need something of the sort for Te + Se.

    But I doubt it could be as funny as Ne is because from my understanding Te wants to control the situation and impose goals on whatever the situation demands and that Se would be using physical force so that it will meet Te's agenda.

    Edit: Hrm so Si acts as a reinforcement to Te such it keeps on track?
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  9. #1429
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uwace View Post
    LOL that's a pretty hilarious scenario you have there. We ENTJs need something of the sort for Te + Se.

    But I doubt it could be as funny as Ne is because from my understanding Te wants to control the situation and impose goals on whatever the situation demands and that Se would be using physical force so that it will meet Te's agenda.
    It is pretty funny. But to be fair, Ne can be very helpful. Pretty much all of my creativity and my global thinking can be attributed to Ne. It keeps me from being caught up in details. Helps me find patterns. In all my time on this forum, I think I can safely say that the majority of unhealthy ESTJs -- at least, the majority of unhealthy ESTJs that people complain about here -- are unhealthy in large part because of not enough Ne. They get closed-minded and inflexible. Healthy ESTJs have more Ne.

    But what does a Te-Se loop look like? I'm curious now.
    Edit: Hrm so Si acts as a reinforcement to Te such it keeps on track?
    In a sense. You know how ESTJs always want to fix things? Well, the only way to know if something is broken is to know what it would look like if it weren't broken, and Si keeps all that data and makes it easy to access.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørrsken impersonating EJCC
    It's strange. I keep banning morons, but they keep signing up? What is this?
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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  10. #1430
    Lyric Baritone Array Kierva's Avatar
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    Well I'm no expert on this topic but I can say Te + Se is murder.

    Like I said Te wants to control and "keep track on the goals" and Se uses physical means to meet Te's agenda, be it with force or obsessive attention to detail.

    This is a very brief and vague outline so other ENTJs looking at this thread feel free to correct me and it's how it works for me (in class).

    Te - By the end of today, I want an A grade.
    Se - Says to group: That group needs to die. *bulldozer face*
    Ni - Gee don't you think you're being too aggressive there?
    Te - whatever, I don't care what happens I want that A grade.
    Se - and I'm just doing the favor. *goes to micromanage group*
    Te - *looks over at group member's work* This is not up to standard.
    Se - *overreacts to seemingly minor detail* NO NO NO THIS IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE HERE!!! IT SHOULD BE IN THE NEXT SLIDE!!

    And the cycle continues until:

    Te - @_@ FUCK INFORMATION OVERLOAD CANNOT THINK SO MANY DETAILS. CLUSTER FUCK *ALARM*
    Se - well it had to be done for the good grade
    Ni - I told you to step back.
    Fi - ah damn I don't think with a presentation as messy as this I can get my A grade *goes to sulk*
    E2 - Eb4 - E5

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