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Thread: Ask an ESTJ!

  1. #1411
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    I'm not worrying about that trying to be productive, because for me "productive" usually means "creative". It's that "working first" that I don't trust...
    But the writing is now at a very boring stage: I'm looking if I used the pronouns (polite vs informal pronouns in Dutch) correctly... Don't worry, Ne will come back... I hope... when I'll get started on a new story.
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    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I think my estj boss really likes me, she has bonded so close mentally with me now its amazing. She trusts me as her right hand and I am learning A LOT around the business world. What'cha think is this a good thing ? I am not used to people bonding so close with me totally on their own. I am even not afraid she has a double agenda tho I am a total sceptic regarding people. I trust her unconditionally

  3. #1413
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I think my estj boss really likes me, she has bonded so close mentally with me now its amazing. She trusts me as her right hand and I am learning A LOT around the business world. What'cha think is this a good thing ? I am not used to people bonding so close with me totally on their own. I am even not afraid she has a double agenda tho I am a total sceptic regarding people. I trust her unconditionally
    We're magnets. :\

  4. #1414
    Member Anna intuitive's Avatar
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    Here's a question. This might have been answered before in bits and pieces, but putting it all together: what are the eight functions of the ESTJ, according to mbti, in order, for example Se, Ti, Ne, Fi...? I'm guessing ... and more importantly, I want a concrete example from daily life for each one!

    I realise this will take time and thought... I don't need the answer right away but would be interested in a breakdown with simple examples.

  5. #1415
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anna intuitive View Post
    Here's a question. This might have been answered before in bits and pieces, but putting it all together: what are the eight functions of the ESTJ, according to mbti, in order, for example Se, Ti, Ne, Fi...? I'm guessing ... and more importantly, I want a concrete example from daily life for each one!

    I realise this will take time and thought... I don't need the answer right away but would be interested in a breakdown with simple examples.
    "Order" is kind of a funny word, but it's supposedly Te, Si, Ne, Fi, Ti, Se, Ni, Fe. I'm not an ESTJ so I can't give examples I guess.

  6. #1416
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    If you suffered a huge disappointment, how do you get over it? I like to talk about it, but I've experienced my husband wants to process it in silence.
    I want a sounding board, not just somebody listening, but somebody listening and telling me it's going to be okay, in short I want a good chunk of Fe. Hubby doesn't like me in such a state, and I guess it's quite obvious why.
    But how do you process disappointment (or grief)? Do you need to be alone? Do you need a good hug?
    Got questions? Ask an ENTP!
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  7. #1417
    lords of summer EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamske View Post
    If you suffered a huge disappointment, how do you get over it? I like to talk about it, but I've experienced my husband wants to process it in silence.
    I want a sounding board, not just somebody listening, but somebody listening and telling me it's going to be okay, in short I want a good chunk of Fe. Hubby doesn't like me in such a state, and I guess it's quite obvious why.
    But how do you process disappointment (or grief)? Do you need to be alone? Do you need a good hug?
    I think, with ESTJs, the bigger the trauma, the more we will withdraw from people in order to deal with it. But on the other hand, it can depend on whether or not we think that reassurance will help. I'm not usually prone towards venting about things, but there are often times when I vent about something frustrating that just happened in the hopes that what I'm venting about is something that's worth venting about... so I'll usually vent not just hoping for Fe, but also hoping for bluntness and honesty - e.g. "You don't need to be frustrated about this, because it's easily fixable, like so...", or "That is totally worth being frustrated about, and I'm so sorry that you have to go through that, but it'll all be over soon. " So, in short, from my experience, if an ESTJ vents at you, it's because they want either validation or advice... but not just a pat on the shoulder and a soothing word or two.

    However, with more serious issues comes the ESTJ's need to sort things out internally, and to decide how they personally feel about something. And that absolutely requires alone time. If my mind is like an attic, then I can compare it to needing to clean up the messiest part of the attic before showing it to guests. But if people want to see that part of the attic before it's ready to be shown to the world, I'll be kind of cranky about it; Most of the time if someone brings up a topic that I haven't sorted out internally yet, my (unspoken) reaction is along the lines of "Just shut up and leave me alone! I can't think about this if you keep talking to me!!!" But once it's all sorted out, I can explain my thought process and my decision in such a way that no one would think that it took soul-searching, let alone serious alone time. You know ESTJs - we're great at saying things succinctly.

    Speaking of succinctness... to sum up this post, yes, we do need alone time, unless we approach you about it. But it still makes us feel a little better to know that the people who care about us most are there with us and understand what we're going through (there's that validation thing again!). So yes, a hug is good too.
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  8. #1418
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    I have a question:

    Do you think type has an effect on the way you learn, and if so, how do you learn best? In other words, what do you hope for in a teacher/instructor/professor, and what kind of methods do you like in class? Thanks in advance.

  9. #1419
    lords of summer EJCC's Avatar
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    Finally replying! Sorry I took so damn long.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anna intuitive View Post
    ... and more importantly, I want a concrete example from daily life for each one!

    I realise this will take time and thought... I don't need the answer right away but would be interested in a breakdown with simple examples.
    Fun question! Here are some examples from my life (that are vague because they happen to me all the time):

    Ti: I see a movie with some friends. We talk about the movie afterwards. During the discussion, I list all my likes and dislikes. Depending on which friends I’m with, either we get into an analytical discussion of why we liked and disliked what we did (ending with a final rating from one to four stars), or my friends will go “Stop insulting the movie! I liked it.” I react with “I was just trying to start a discussion!”
    Another example: I hear someone being judgmental about the “other side” of a political view. I play devil’s advocate, correcting them even though I agree with their position, because I’m trying to be objective.

    Te: Everything in my life. Every time I force myself to do something even if I don’t want to. Every time I try to get someone to do something, because what they’re doing doesn’t seem right to me.

    Fi: I go to the store, I see that they don't have a CD that I like. That annoys me, not just because I had wanted to buy it, but because I feel like the store ought to have that CD in stock because it's so good. So I go to the desk and ask them to order several copies, not just one, so that way there'll be an extra one for whoever else stops by. My Fi is then satisfied, because I did a good deed. (There’s lots of Te in here too, but I have a hard time separating my Te from my Fi, when I talk about it.)

    Fe: I’m at a party, and I walk towards a group of people having a conversation. I say hi, and then stay silent for a while as I listen to the conversation, figure out what people’s senses of humor are like, and finally I make a comment that I feel is appropriate and charming and well-suited to the group’s mood.

    Ni: I guess… if I get bad vibes from a situation, and can’t explain why? I dunno – I don’t really understand the function.

    Ne: I go to a garage sale and see a chair. The chair is ridiculously ugly, but it's only $2. My imagination goes crazy - I could strip the chair of paint and put nice wood finish on it, I could re-upholster it, etc. etc. - and I buy it in the hopes that I can make something pretty and fun out of it. Sometimes my Te kicks in and forces me to complete the project, and sometimes my Ne gets bored and the project never even gets started, let alone finished.

    Si: I hear a song on the radio. Something just doesn't feel right about it, and I can't figure out what it is. I think about this for a while, and then realize that it's a cover of a song I know really well. What felt wrong was that it was a different lead vocalist, and that the vocalist was singing in a different key.

    Se: I'm really frustrated by something, so I listen to some loud music to calm me down. I turn up the volume so that I can hear every sound, every harmony, every instrument, every dynamic change. I don't think about anything - I just let the music wash over me. It’s not meditation, exactly, but it’s pure sensory experience. Noticing absolutely everything.


    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    I have a question:

    Do you think type has an effect on the way you learn, and if so, how do you learn best? In other words, what do you hope for in a teacher/instructor/professor, and what kind of methods do you like in class? Thanks in advance.
    Yeah, I think type has a lot to do with learning. Not sure how specifically, but I get the impression that Ns like having more broad and conceptual assignments, and S types like real-world applications. I personally don't mind if what I'm learning is abstract, as long as you give me a concrete reason to care. I'm not going to respond well to "it's important because it's intellectually stimulating", or "no one has succeeded in this subject yet, but what matters is that you try"... A philosophy prof tried that last one on me a year ago, and I automatically hated his guts.

    As for what I like in professors... I like professors who value clarity. Nothing bugs me more, as a student, than a professor who isn’t clear about what they expect from you as a student. You’ll get a vague assignment, ask the prof for clarification, they don’t give it, and you turn it in, only to get a C because you didn’t fulfill the prof’s expectations. I could go ON AND ON about how much that pisses me off but I’ll spare you

    Also, some classes (like advanced math, or economics) tend to have professors who expect you to figure everything out on your own. I can't STAND that. Here's an example of something that happened to me in an economics class this past year.

    Prof: Here's how you do the problem. First, you find A. Therefore, you find B. So then --
    Me: -- Excuse me, I have a question. How did you get that?
    Prof: Well... it's kind of intuitive.
    Me (unspoken): Uh, NO, no it ISN'T intuitive, which is why I'm asking the question!!!

    Honestly, I'd rather have a boring but thorough professor than a scatterbrained professor who doesn't actually teach you anything and expects you to teach yourself. Neither is ideal, but at least with the first option I'm actually LEARNING something.

    As for methods in class… depends on the class. Are you a language prof? What sort of class are you teaching? Is it more based on writing, or memorizing facts? Scantron tests or 10 page essay questions?
    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  10. #1420
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    I'm an English language teacher in Germany, and invariably I have a pretty mixed bag of students, but in one class, there are predominantly SJ/SP students. So typically I have a mixture of theory and practice in my lessons.

    Never would I tell a student that something is just a feeling unless it really is. Or I tell them: Well, there are three ways of going about it: memorizing about 30 pages' worth of rules, or practicing a lot and getting a gut feeling about it, or just knowing. Either way, it doesn't matter, as long as you steadily improve. However, memorizing doesn't necessarily translate into success. Of course, it works for some people. I try to emphasize finding something that works and then I'll try to find a helpful strategy that matches.

    In my classes, I try to emphasize people 'discovering things' for themselves, and I'm there to give a 'helping hand' when necessary. Let me give you a concrete example:

    I have a class where I'm doing Office Skills. Since this is a very practical class, I have to present it in a practical way, really. So I think we can't just talk about stuff; we have to do something constructive. So I often have classes with the theory and homework with the practice. That of course means that I have a crap-load of work because I have to correct a lot of stuff, but I find this really gives the best of both worlds. Sometimes in class, we have telephoning role plays or filling out forms together, things like that. We also have a lot of discussions and partner/group work to spice things up a bit. I try not to have the same ol' routine every time.

    One criticism that I get - and that's why I'm writing you because I think that it's an SJ problem that you could provide some good insight on - is that I'm not 'clear' or 'structured' enough. Now I *think* I'm really structured, except on off-days when I am kind of not having a too-good grasp on my Te, but they obviously don't. So I'm wondering: what do you expect in terms of structure. See, I'm a bit worried about spelling everything out before we even start, because I'd think that'd take the fun out of discovering it on your own. Besides, I don't want to make people feel like it's a kindergarten class by telling them everything step by step when it's college.

    But maybe I've been going about it the wrong way, so I'd appreciate any feedback you'd be willing to give.

    P.S. The exam is listening, reading, and writing. All quite practical in nature, but no memorization necessary, and limited creativity. I figure they have time to be creative during class.

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