User Tag List

Page 139 of 259 FirstFirst ... 3989129137138139140141149189239 ... LastLast
Results 1,381 to 1,390 of 2590

Thread: Ask an ESTJ!

  1. #1381
    All Natural! All Good! Array
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    886

    Default

    Very interesting, and I agree -- I don't get much satisfaction out of 'winning' a debate if I'm wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC
    To be fair, I like fact-collecting etc as much as anyone, but I like it when all involved parties go into it admitting to themselves and everyone else that they don't have all information on the topic, and they're essentially going on a fact-finding mission... instead of going into it as if you have a strong opinion and then switching opinions without warning. Honestly, I think the whole communication issue would be solved if the other party would just say "I don't necessarily agree with this, BUT..." or if they would make sure not to sound or appear confrontational. In my mind, when you get emotionally involved in a debate, it's something you agree with. And if you get really passionate about both sides, that confuses the shit out of me!
    I see this point. I just think of it differently I guess, because I don't think I know anything on a topic when even by others' measures I'd know a lot. IME Ps tend to think of things as 'maybe's. Or 'perhaps it's like this...' Very little of what I say is definitive, and I wrongly assume other people know that, so I don't preface my comments with disclaimers. I suppose others are taking it as fact

    Definitely. The statement before this I completely disagree with (because I don't want to walk on eggshells with my friends), but this statement is totally true. Nothing good ever comes out of debating morals - unless both parties are debating morals that they are emotionally detached from.
    I agree. I will debate ethical theories with people, or the application of said theories to a given situation, but I won't for example get into an abortion debate with someone. It will go nowhere except histrionics (if we disagree in the first place).

    Is she a jealous person - to the point that if you were vague, she'd keep asking questions? If she is, I have no good advice for you. But if not, you could just say "I have a meeting" or "I'm going to a lunch" or "I'm meeting some people" or something along those lines.
    I think she'd keep asking questions. This is helpful though, I could be vague enough that she doesn't know what it is I'm doing specifically. Good call.

    Thanks, and by the way... sorry for posting so much in your thread...
    Strychnine is all-natural,
    So strychnine is all good.
    It's Godly and righteous,
    So eat it, you should.
    Who are you to refuse nature's will?


    Don't use the multiquote; it was planted by the devil to deceive us.

    Social Role: Asscrack/Piece of Shit/Public Defecator/Spiteful Urinator


    A different type everyday - so no need to type me anymore. But feel free to enjoy the sound of your own asscrack.

  2. #1382
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    173 so/sx
    Posts
    17,767

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Your comments actually make me think of my (probable) ISTJ brother as well. Same functions, different order, right?
    Yeah, I definitely relate a lot to ISTJs. Although to be fair, INFPs also have the same functions in a different order, and I don’t relate much to them at all! Probably because I don’t know many of them irl.
    Except with him it was a bit the reverse from the ESTJ... My parents and I are Christians and my bro was raised one as well but decided he no longer wanted to be involved with the church about ten years ago. We were unhappy about that, and he knew/knows that and I know he is not happy about having contributed to us feeling like that, but it hasn't changed his mind. But this doesn't change the fact that he follows his life with a great deal of integrity and is attached to tradition and "the way things are/should be"...but only where he agrees with and likes them, as you say.
    I’m glad you asked this question, because it breaks some SJ stereotypes. We are capable of critical thinking, we are capable of questioning authority and deciding for ourselves what we think is right. And that is what it looks like when we do.
    He often brings his liking for tradition and his resistance to change up in a joking kind of way: when we all get together as a family now (doesn't happen very often as I live on the other side of the world) there are certain "traditions" he always wants to follow, ie. watching certain movies, bringing up certain family jokes, that sort of thing... He hates, I mean HATES, change for the sake of change, whereas I have mixed feelings about it, but can see the point in some contexts anyway.
    Yeah, I’m not a rebel-without-a-cause sort of person either. As the saying goes: If it ain’t broke…
    He'd rather hear one of his fav bands get a bit formulaic and release similar music album after album, because he thinks they do it well, rather than them branching out and experimenting with something that might not work so well (even if it resulted in artistic growth ultimately.)
    Well, to be fair, if it did result in artistic growth, and if I liked them better later, I’d be okay with their experimentation. I wouldn’t listen to their crappy awkward growth phase albums but I’d listen to the before-and-after albums. That’s how I am with Green Day, actually. Same kind of thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by strychnine View Post
    I see this point. I just think of it differently I guess, because I don't think I know anything on a topic when even by others' measures I'd know a lot. IME Ps tend to think of things as 'maybe's. Or 'perhaps it's like this...' Very little of what I say is definitive, and I wrongly assume other people know that, so I don't preface my comments with disclaimers. I suppose others are taking it as fact
    Yep! Or, at least, many of the J types do. I, for one, am used to operating under the assumption that everything is certain (even though it’s not), so in order to have those sorts of conversations, I need to get into a more Ne-heavy mode where I make my opinions a blank slate and purely look for interesting facts. Once I do that, I can have very interesting conversations with NTPs… but I’ve gotten kind of paranoid, after that interchange with the NFP, that I can come into those conversations unprepared and get caught off guard by an attempted analysis of a moral opinion that I can’t emotionally detach myself from.

    I’ve tried to talk to people about that conversation, after it happened, and no one seems to understand why it shook me so much and why I’ve been halfway avoiding that NFP for the past couple weeks as a result. Hopefully you all understand, though?
    I think she'd keep asking questions. This is helpful though, I could be vague enough that she doesn't know what it is I'm doing specifically. Good call.

    Thanks, and by the way... sorry for posting so much in your thread...
    No problem! The thread’s for whoever needs advice, so there’s no pressure to ask fewer questions. In fact, ask as many as you like!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørrsken impersonating EJCC
    It's strange. I keep banning morons, but they keep signing up? What is this?
    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  3. #1383
    Aquaria Array mrcockburn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    MBTI
    ¥¤
    Enneagram
    3w4 sp/so
    Posts
    1,907

    Default

    What would ESTJ with underdeveloped Si look like? Is it even possible? For example, ENTPs with flimsy Ti come up with these wild, off-the-wall ideas that may not even be logical.
    3w4-9w1-?w6 (nearly headless nick)
    sp/so
    Lawful Evil

    COCKBURN:

    http://sundrytimes.files.wordpress.c...tomic-bomb.jpg


  4. #1384
    don't fence me in Array sui generis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    MBTI
    esTJ
    Enneagram
    875 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ESTx
    Posts
    746

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    Dear ESTJ,

    A. Glitter or hugs
    B. Pudding or cake
    C. Time machine or washing machine.
    D. Football or reading.
    E. Star trek tng or star trek original
    F. Blue or red
    G. House or houseboat.

    . My research thanks you
    A. Hugs.
    B. Cake with pudding inside!
    C. Washing machine.
    D. READING ALL THE WAY.
    E. Neither; I have no patience for sci-fi/fantasy.
    F. BLUE
    G. House.

    Murphy Brown: What is it with us? Why can't we take the easy road once in awhile?
    Avery Brown: Because it's boring and dishonest and uncomfortable, like wearing a pair of shoes all day that pinch your feet.

    approx 55% ES, 90% TJ

  5. #1385
    A Mystery Array Jacques Le Paul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    539
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    767

    Default

    Hey is the lazor on stun or kill?

  6. #1386
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    173 so/sx
    Posts
    17,767

    Default

    Sorry Saturned, I totally missed your post! My answers:

    A. Hugs! In the words of Demetri Martin: "Glitter is the herpes of craft supplies."
    B. Pudding. Although I like good cake more than good pudding, I have a lifelong hatred for bad cake. After so many years of bad store-bought birthday cake... I just can't.
    C. Washing machine. If there's one thing that science fiction has taught me (besides that you should NEVER create an artificial intelligence EVER), it's that time travel is a bad idea.
    D. Reading, 'cause I suck at football.
    E. TNG!!!!! One of my all-time favorite shows.
    F. I can't choose! I have no favorite color.
    G. Houseboat! That would RULE!
    Quote Originally Posted by mrcockburn View Post
    What would ESTJ with underdeveloped Si look like? Is it even possible? For example, ENTPs with flimsy Ti come up with these wild, off-the-wall ideas that may not even be logical.
    They'd probably be stuck in their Te-Ne loop all the time... so instead of logically working through to-do lists and prioritizing efficiently, they would pick whichever random projects sound fun and work on those, to distract themselves from the important (but un-fun) things that should have been on the top of their to-do lists from the beginning. So, they would still be diligent and efficient workers, but not on any project that's relevant or important.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaqcues Le Paul View Post
    Hey is the lazor on stun or kill?
    Stun. Because what use is a person if he's dead?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørrsken impersonating EJCC
    It's strange. I keep banning morons, but they keep signing up? What is this?
    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  7. #1387
    don't fence me in Array sui generis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    MBTI
    esTJ
    Enneagram
    875 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ESTx
    Posts
    746

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaqcues Le Paul View Post
    Hey is the lazor on stun or kill?
    Stun, unless you give me reason to put it on 'kill'.
    Murphy Brown: What is it with us? Why can't we take the easy road once in awhile?
    Avery Brown: Because it's boring and dishonest and uncomfortable, like wearing a pair of shoes all day that pinch your feet.

    approx 55% ES, 90% TJ

  8. #1388
    Member Array Anna intuitive's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4
    Posts
    31

    Default

    Up until now, on this thread, I’ve been processing my relationship with my ESTJ colleague in her capacity as supervisor/trainer of me.

    Now I want to understand her better in her responses to some changes that are taking place in our group, and in my role towards her.

    In February a group of colleagues in our field of work met together for five days, for our Annual General Assembly followed by some training.

    Now, the ESTJ supervisor and the coordinator (Catholic priest) were for years big buddies, but something happened and it is clear for some months that she is furious with him, but he won’t engage in the conflict…. She tried during the meeting to force him into an open conflict, but he wouldn’t…

    Right at the end of that meeting, the coordinator said that he was planning to retire. The ESTJ supervisor expressed several times that she felt “shaken”. She expressed that she was clear that she couldn’t take on the task of coordinator in addition to her heavy responsibilities as training supervisor. She also kept looking around the room and saying “I don’t see anyone else in this room, do you see anyone else in this room?” We are a small group.

    At some stage it transpired that the coordinator had me in mind as an apprentice successor. I said “no problem”, essentially.

    Anyway, in the next meeting, the whole thing came up again, with her accusing the coordinator of abandoning us and letting us all down. It was one of her very occasional emotional outbursts. When I said I didn’t see it like that, she then withdrew and would not communicate any further and a tear trickled down her cheek.

    OK, I understood that the whole thing was really difficult for her, and I understood it better when I read this thread and saw how the hierarchy thing would be meaningful for her, and since she doesn’t think I’m capable, to have me in a leadership role over her would be really horrible, plus the feeling of being let down by the coordinator whom she is anyway in unresolved conflict with.

    Since then we had another meeting with just her and me and the coordinator, where he formally checked with me if I was willing to enter into “informal apprenticeship” as coordinator for the next few months (before potentially entering into “formal apprenticeship”!). My ESTJ colleague said twice that she was glad that it was only going to be “informal” apprenticeship.

    Whether it’s because of that situation, or whether it’s because of other things in her life at present, there are signs that give me the impression that she is going through a difficult time.

    This is what stood out for me. She said that she is not going to open a workshop to two of us to intern (which we already applied for and she agreed to) because she hasn’t given it for ages and doesn’t feel confident. I don’t think she actually said she doesn’t feel confident, but that was what she implied. Anyway, at the time, it sounded perfectly understandable to me, because that’s exactly how I would function when things aren’t going too well for me. Afterwards I realized it is totally out of type for her. She is always up and running and up for action challenges. She always does what she promised she would do. She would also never normally admit to not feeling up to something. For her to turn down an action challenge is a really bad sign… especially when she already agreed to it. What do you think???

    And how should I be around her? What will be most helpful?

  9. #1389
    came back haunted Array EJCC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    173 so/sx
    Posts
    17,767

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Anna intuitive View Post
    What do you think???
    Yeah, the fact that she already agreed to it is the confusing thing here. I mean, if someone asked me to do something and I didn't think I could do it well, I would refuse. But the fact that she suddenly feels uncertain about her ability... I'm not sure if I can speculate (although I really want to and I kind of already am I know that speculating isn't wise) considering how little information I have, but something has definitely made her second-guess her skillfulness.

    Did you get the impression that she was glad you were only going into "informal" apprenticeship because of her own responsibilities, or because of yours? That is, do you think her tough times are making her unwilling to help you (because that would be tiring and a burden? maybe? speculating ), or are they making her jealous of you, or resentful that you're taking her friend's position, or some other speculative thing (because I can't help but speculate! damn my weak Ti!). If she holds no hard feelings towards you (which seems to be the case?), then the absolute 100% best thing to do is to keep doing what you've been doing. Be consistent and reliable, despite her tough times. She will very much appreciate that, more than she will say to you.

    I hope that helps - and I'm sorry that there's been so much drama Poor ESTJ. If she cried during a meeting, then things must REALLY be bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nørrsken impersonating EJCC
    It's strange. I keep banning morons, but they keep signing up? What is this?
    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    lawful good (D&D) / ravenclaw + wampus (HP) / boros legion (M:TG)
    conscientious > sensitive > serious (oldham)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  10. #1390
    Member Array Anna intuitive's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4
    Posts
    31

    Default

    Your answers and questions help me to sort things out in my head.

    There are two issues. One is me gradually taking over the role of coordinator. I think she thinks that I'm not up to it - but is open to seeing how it works out. I don't mind her thinking that, since it's only recently that I've been explicitly demonstrating some of my strengths to her (instead of expecting her to intuit them, feeling disappointed when she didn't, and underperforming...). So in that respect, I just go forward, as things unfold, do my best, and no doubt it will work out fine. By the way, looking at Enneagram types, she's a 1 with a 2 wing and I'm a 4 with a 3 wing. I integrate well towards 1 - towards excellence - so doing my work excellently in my own way will work just as well for taking over the position of coordinator as it has with functioning well towards my ESTJ as a supervisee/trainee.

    The second issue is her unhappiness. I don't know what it's about, but it's been coming through for a while if I think about it. She's been dropping lines about her being "cynical" and "what is the meaning of life?". She's in a bad space about her own work, I think, disappointed with the lack of results (we're all in the people training field in personal growth work, and it can bes pretty challenging). So if I clarify to myself that her unhappiness has to do with her, and not with me, then I can just be calm around her and pick up cues about whether to be cheerful or quiet.

    I have another strategy that I'm adding to my first two:
    1. Pursue excellence in my work in relation to her.
    2. Be neutral - i.e. if I feel bugged by something she says, let it go. Usually it's something to do with type differences. I let it fall into a neutral space in me.
    3. Communicate clearly, briefly and directly about practical matters and keep her updated. I have more practical admin matters to interact with her about since I'm taking over some of the coordinator functions, and I notice that communication without frills is fine for her. Less tiring for me too, since I'm not good with Fe (the aptitude to say the right thing at the right time).

    I feel clearer about this now. I was mixing up the two issues, her unhappiness and my taking over functions as coordinator. That was confusing me and making me feel uneasy. I feel calmer now.

    BTW I have read the entire thread now and have watched the videos! *humble bow*

Similar Threads

  1. [INTJ] Ask an INTJ
    By logan235711 in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 870
    Last Post: 05-22-2015, 05:04 AM
  2. [ISFJ] How to ask an ISFJ out?
    By Grungemouse in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 10-08-2009, 07:04 PM
  3. [MBTItm] How do you spot an ESTJ female?
    By INTJMom in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 12-23-2008, 01:27 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •